First Run Dialog for next Lucid Puppy

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Lobster
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#21 Post by Lobster »

Can it be programmed so if you click the x top right it does not reappear?
If I click that x it means I do not want the program to open.
If I want it to run, I will go find it in the menu . . .

Hope that makes sense :)
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playdayz
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#22 Post by playdayz »

Shinobar, Looking great. Thank you for all the work.

What do people think? I really think there ought to be a button for CCE on the first-run dialog (as in 8d1), but I am willing to be convinced . After the CCE (xorgwizard) runs then the first-run dialog would reappear.

I am just thinking out loud, but if we give instructions about running it from the menu we might as well provide a button.

CCE could only set the video driver--not anything else (country, timezone, etc., as xorgwizard traditionally does) then one would see the first run dialog again and could change anything else. Or CCE could set everything. Which?

The reason for CCE is that we have 2 ways to set the video driver--the auto config has been working very well it seems--but xorgwizard CCE is a most capable backup.

One high priority here is to divorce setting the Keyboard Layout from running CCE--because some people have found that they need to change the keyboard but running CCE screws up something else (synaptics touchpad). That is definitely going to be accomplished, no matter what else. Shinobar has a proposal that could fix the problem with synaptics and CCE.

People will only see this first-run dialog once, but it is the first thing they will see, so thanks for all the feedback. Or as Lobster says "Personalize Settings".

If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh? ;-)

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shinobar
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XorgWizard button

#23 Post by shinobar »

Thanks playdayz for giving me such an exiting job.

We can put a 'XorgWizard' button(, not 'CCE') in the 'Screen size' frame, like 0.8d1.
(I think the CCE devorced with keyboard is the same as the xorgwizard, right?)
In this case, we needs more discussion...
What happens if I choose en_GB, UTC, uk, 1024x768, then click 'XorgWizard' instead of 'OK'?

My thought, all the country settings are applied but the screen size ignored, and go through XorgWizard.
Of course the dialog should pop up again after the XorgWizard performed.
playdayz wrote:If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh? ;-)
Not complicated in programing but i concern isn't it complicated for the users?

Like to here more discussion.
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playdayz
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#24 Post by playdayz »

Thanks playdayz for giving me such an exiting job.
Important too ;-)
What happens if I choose en_GB, UTC, uk, 1024x768, then click 'XorgWizard' instead of 'OK'?

My thought, all the country settings are applied but the screen size ignored, and go through XorgWizard.
That would be great. An easier solution from a programming standpoint would be simply to run xorgwizard and then come back to the first-run dialog. The way that usually runs xorgwizard is to delete xorg.conf and then wmexit.

We should definitely make the OK button the most obvious. Also for the xorgwizard button we could say something like "Click *Only* if the current video driver is unacceptable."

It is good to get all this discussion. Thanks.
If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh? Wink

Not complicated in programing but i concern isn't it complicated for the users?
I think anyone who clicks the X to close a program knows what they are doing--and they mean to close it. So I don't think anyone would be confused or close it by accident--and even if they did it will still be on the menu.

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bigpup
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#25 Post by bigpup »

The new test version looks good. V0.8d4

Because you are able to change resolution. It should make the change and bring you back to decide if that is what you want.
I think you need an apply button and an Ok button.
Apply- all settings are made. You can see effect.
Ok- you are happy. Close program window.

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Apply button

#26 Post by shinobar »

bigpup wrote:Apply- all settings are made. You can see effect.
Ok- you are happy. Close program window.
Sounds nice.
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don570
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keyboard suggestion

#27 Post by don570 »

Here's a suggestion for you to think about.

What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.

If pictures take up to much diskspace then a ' text ' picture
could be an alternative

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playdayz
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#28 Post by playdayz »

Nevermind. I am building a luci-231 with version 8d4.

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Re: keyboard suggestion

#29 Post by shinobar »

don570 wrote:What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.
Thanks Don. Interest idea, but i do not think it so effective because it is hard to check out all the key.

By the way, I like to show an example here for english readers to see how they are radically different from the US keyboard.
Refer the detail on the Wikipedia.
Imagine how to type 'puppy pfix=ram' or 'xorgwizard' by these layout.

French keyboard layout (AZERTY):
Image
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Béèm
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Re: keyboard suggestion

#30 Post by Béèm »

shinobar wrote:
don570 wrote:What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.
Thanks Don. Interest idea, but i do not think it so effective because it is hard to check out all the key.

By the way, I like to show an example here for english readers to see how they are radically different from the US keyboard.
Refer the detail on the Wikipedia.
Imagine how to type 'puppy pfix=ram' or 'xorgwizard' by these layout.

French keyboard layout (AZERTY):
Image
Thank you shinobar for making this point clear.
I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.
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#31 Post by Béèm »

shinobar, may I make another suggestion.
Your approach looks really well and (being NLS) I like it, but would it be possible to add another button to choose the clock. 12 hour or 24 hour.
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#32 Post by playdayz »

I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.
Béèm, I never doubted you. I used plenty of keyboards that were not natural to me in testing, but my point is that we had such a high percentage of successfully booting to the desktop that it was extremely unlikely that anyone would have to deal with that problem. As you yourself did, you could boot to the desktop and then change the keyboard. A problem that almost never happens is not a reason to make a design change. I agree that in previous versions, even Lucid 5.0 that had the problem with a few, or one, type card booting to a black screen then the problem would have been significant, but Lucid 5.1.1 does not have that problem.

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#33 Post by Béèm »

playdayz wrote:
I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.
Béèm, I never doubted you. I used plenty of keyboards that were not natural to me in testing, but my point is that we had such a high percentage of successfully booting to the desktop that it was extremely unlikely that anyone would have to deal with that problem. As you yourself did, you could boot to the desktop and then change the keyboard. A problem that almost never happens is not a reason to make a design change. I agree that in previous versions, even Lucid 5.0 that had the problem with a few, or one, type card booting to a black screen then the problem would have been significant, but Lucid 5.1.1 does not have that problem.
How did you 'measure' that high percentage of successful booting to the desktop. If people don't report, you wouldn't know.
But ok, it is nice to know you did testing on keyboards you're not familiar about. I don't think, or maybe didn't remember, you did so. Good point for you.

I still doubt, having been a product manager in my professional life in Belgium, that the issue of National Language Support is fully understood.

And indeed the boot to black display has been improved to a great extend. Fortunately.

I think shinobar's contribution is a good way to handle the situation of NLS.

So don't misunderstand, I appreciate the work done for Lucid.
I see now new developments have been made. I barely have time to catch up with it all, but I will look at 5.2. And give my comment as usual.

I have been distracted a bit by squeeze, the new wary and quirky 1.3 and have problems with the last two. Squeeze is ok for the moment.

I fear Barry's new approach with filenames plays a negative role to the way I install using the Lin'N'Win method.

Hope 5.2 will not do so, but I will tell if it does.
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Safe mode

#34 Post by shinobar »

Béèm wrote:How did you 'measure' that high percentage of successful booting to the desktop. If people don't report, you wouldn't know.
I like to inform you my approach on LupQ, giving 'safe mode' on the boot menu.
Because they may be unable to type 'puppy pfix=nox'.
http://shino.pos.to/linux/lupq/features.html
Image

The graphical menu is not difficult. Even the isolinux can, I know the Fluppy does, but grub4dos is more easy and the remasterpup2 supports the grub4dos.
Asking the keyboard layout with the 'safe mode', I needed modifying rc.country and /etc/profle.
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countrywizard

#35 Post by shinobar »

playdayz wrote:I am building a luci-231 with version 8d4.
Thanks, playdayz. It should make a chance to receive more discussion.
Tested Luci-231 and seems working as i expected.
Note that if you change only the scereen size, you are not required to restart X with openbox, and seems no promblem.
If you are with jwm, luc-230 or lupu-511, restarting X will be offered, and it also seems working well.

The classic countrywizard now works on luci-231 thanks to the new xorg.conf, but i recommend to replace it with the new one.
The classic countrywizard cannot change the keyboard layout on the fly, and problem with some keyboard, jp and br.
When we switch the countrywizard to the new countrywizard.qs*, we can wipe out several entries from the menu, Chooselocale, Set timezone, Set hardware clock type.
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The menu title

#36 Post by shinobar »

Having the menu entry of this first-run dialog may be preferable.
But what is the title of the menu?
I think 'Personalise Setting' is not well showing the function.
The 'First-run Setting' seems not so bad for me.

Does anyone give a good words for the menu title?

By the way, should we use U.S.A english, or British/Australian?
'Personalize' or 'Personalise'?
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#37 Post by Lobster »

I like to inform you my approach on LupQ, giving 'safe mode' on the boot menu.
I hope we can incorporate that in 5.2 swell.
It is a very professional way of booting found in several Puppys . . .

I am using Luci 231 and the 'First Run Dialog' worked as expected. Very good addition.
m m m . . . I can not find how to run it from the menu?
Does it run from the console?
There is some usage of English that is not ideal.

OK restarted x and can now comment:

You can change these parameters etc
can be simplified to 'Personalize your settings'

Clicking OK after setting the parameters as you want
= "Confirm settings"

Well done to you and Larry :)
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#38 Post by playdayz »

Shinobar,

The new first-run.sh (quickset) did not have Hebrew and Arabic. It should have those I think. thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Having the menu entry of this first-run dialog may be preferable.
But what is the title of the menu?
I think 'Personalise Setting' is not well showing the function.
The 'First-run Setting' seems not so bad for me.

Does anyone give a good words for the menu title?
Yes. It will have a menu entry. I just forgot.

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#39 Post by shinobar »

playdayz wrote:The new first-run.sh (quickset) did not have Hebrew and Arabic. It should have those I think.
Thanks playdayz finding what i forgot.
The font on Lupu can display Hebrew,Arabic and Vietnamese.
The file '/usr/share/i18n/shortlists' should be add 'ar', 'he' and 'vi':

Code: Select all

ar
en
de
es
fr
he
it
nl
pt
pt_BR
ru
vi
One more i forgot:
The first-run.sh makes a file /tmp/first-run.sh-keymaps.
This file should have been contained as '/usr/share/i18/keymaps'.

They will be fixed in next update with 'Apply' button.

I am concerning what the menu title should be...?
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#40 Post by Lobster »

Menubar = Personalize Settings
(I say that as a Brit) 8)

that will also get rid of a line of explanation
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