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First Run Dialog for next Lucid Puppy
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct 2010, 21:20    Post_subject:  

shinobar, may I make another suggestion.
Your approach looks really well and (being NLS) I like it, but would it be possible to add another button to choose the clock. 12 hour or 24 hour.

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct 2010, 21:31    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.

Béèm, I never doubted you. I used plenty of keyboards that were not natural to me in testing, but my point is that we had such a high percentage of successfully booting to the desktop that it was extremely unlikely that anyone would have to deal with that problem. As you yourself did, you could boot to the desktop and then change the keyboard. A problem that almost never happens is not a reason to make a design change. I agree that in previous versions, even Lucid 5.0 that had the problem with a few, or one, type card booting to a black screen then the problem would have been significant, but Lucid 5.1.1 does not have that problem.
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct 2010, 21:54    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.

Béèm, I never doubted you. I used plenty of keyboards that were not natural to me in testing, but my point is that we had such a high percentage of successfully booting to the desktop that it was extremely unlikely that anyone would have to deal with that problem. As you yourself did, you could boot to the desktop and then change the keyboard. A problem that almost never happens is not a reason to make a design change. I agree that in previous versions, even Lucid 5.0 that had the problem with a few, or one, type card booting to a black screen then the problem would have been significant, but Lucid 5.1.1 does not have that problem.
How did you 'measure' that high percentage of successful booting to the desktop. If people don't report, you wouldn't know.
But ok, it is nice to know you did testing on keyboards you're not familiar about. I don't think, or maybe didn't remember, you did so. Good point for you.

I still doubt, having been a product manager in my professional life in Belgium, that the issue of National Language Support is fully understood.

And indeed the boot to black display has been improved to a great extend. Fortunately.

I think shinobar's contribution is a good way to handle the situation of NLS.

So don't misunderstand, I appreciate the work done for Lucid.
I see now new developments have been made. I barely have time to catch up with it all, but I will look at 5.2. And give my comment as usual.

I have been distracted a bit by squeeze, the new wary and quirky 1.3 and have problems with the last two. Squeeze is ok for the moment.

I fear Barry's new approach with filenames plays a negative role to the way I install using the Lin'N'Win method.

Hope 5.2 will not do so, but I will tell if it does.

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct 2010, 22:54    Post_subject: Safe mode  

Béèm wrote:
How did you 'measure' that high percentage of successful booting to the desktop. If people don't report, you wouldn't know.

I like to inform you my approach on LupQ, giving 'safe mode' on the boot menu.
Because they may be unable to type 'puppy pfix=nox'.
http://shino.pos.to/linux/lupq/features.html


The graphical menu is not difficult. Even the isolinux can, I know the Fluppy does, but grub4dos is more easy and the remasterpup2 supports the grub4dos.
Asking the keyboard layout with the 'safe mode', I needed modifying rc.country and /etc/profle.

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 00:45    Post_subject: countrywizard  

playdayz wrote:
I am building a luci-231 with version 8d4.

Thanks, playdayz. It should make a chance to receive more discussion.
Tested Luci-231 and seems working as i expected.
Note that if you change only the scereen size, you are not required to restart X with openbox, and seems no promblem.
If you are with jwm, luc-230 or lupu-511, restarting X will be offered, and it also seems working well.

The classic countrywizard now works on luci-231 thanks to the new xorg.conf, but i recommend to replace it with the new one.
The classic countrywizard cannot change the keyboard layout on the fly, and problem with some keyboard, jp and br.
When we switch the countrywizard to the new countrywizard.qs*, we can wipe out several entries from the menu, Chooselocale, Set timezone, Set hardware clock type.

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 01:06    Post_subject: The menu title  

Having the menu entry of this first-run dialog may be preferable.
But what is the title of the menu?
I think 'Personalise Setting' is not well showing the function.
The 'First-run Setting' seems not so bad for me.

Does anyone give a good words for the menu title?

By the way, should we use U.S.A english, or British/Australian?
'Personalize' or 'Personalise'?

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 02:57    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I like to inform you my approach on LupQ, giving 'safe mode' on the boot menu.


I hope we can incorporate that in 5.2 swell.
It is a very professional way of booting found in several Puppys . . .

I am using Luci 231 and the 'First Run Dialog' worked as expected. Very good addition.
m m m . . . I can not find how to run it from the menu?
Does it run from the console?
There is some usage of English that is not ideal.

OK restarted x and can now comment:

You can change these parameters etc
can be simplified to 'Personalize your settings'

Clicking OK after setting the parameters as you want
= "Confirm settings"

Well done to you and Larry Smile

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 09:25    Post_subject:  

Shinobar,

The new first-run.sh (quickset) did not have Hebrew and Arabic. It should have those I think. thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Having the menu entry of this first-run dialog may be preferable.
But what is the title of the menu?
I think 'Personalise Setting' is not well showing the function.
The 'First-run Setting' seems not so bad for me.

Does anyone give a good words for the menu title?


Yes. It will have a menu entry. I just forgot.
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 10:07    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
The new first-run.sh (quickset) did not have Hebrew and Arabic. It should have those I think.

Thanks playdayz finding what i forgot.
The font on Lupu can display Hebrew,Arabic and Vietnamese.
The file '/usr/share/i18n/shortlists' should be add 'ar', 'he' and 'vi':
Code:
ar
en
de
es
fr
he
it
nl
pt
pt_BR
ru
vi


One more i forgot:
The first-run.sh makes a file /tmp/first-run.sh-keymaps.
This file should have been contained as '/usr/share/i18/keymaps'.

They will be fixed in next update with 'Apply' button.

I am concerning what the menu title should be...?

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 11:06    Post_subject:  

Menubar = Personalize Settings
(I say that as a Brit) Cool

that will also get rid of a line of explanation

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 18:35    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Menubar = Personalize Settings


Hey shinobar. Let's let Lobster call this one. Personalize Settings is fine with me.
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 20:11    Post_subject: Personalize Settings  

Lobster wrote:
Menubar = Personalize Settings

Thanks Lobstar and playdayz.

From the word, 'Personalize Settings', I feel something different.
I imagine the wallpaper, icon theme, etc., like 'Desktop Settings' category.

The function of the first-run dialog is Country settings plus Resolution changer.
It is local settings matching the hardware, rather than 'personal'.
But also i think the word 'Local Settings' is not easy to understand...


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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 20:51    Post_subject: Main menu  

By the way, the main menu of luci-231/Lupu-5.1x seems strange comparing with Fatdog or classic puppies.
I see the Wizards and Installers are mixed up on Luci/Lupu.
I also remember Lobster said some menu item cannot be seen with small screen.

It depends on the version of libgnome-menu.
See: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=442348#442348

Main menu of the Quirky-1.3:

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5388
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 22:09    Post_subject: Re: The menu title  

shinobar wrote:
Having the menu entry of this first-run dialog may be preferable.
But what is the title of the menu?
I think 'Personalise Setting' is not well showing the function.
The 'First-run Setting' seems not so bad for me.
Does anyone give a good words for the menu title?

I say:
Personal Settings Wizard
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct 2010, 22:48    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I alse remember Lobster said some menu item cannot be seen with small screen


A three tier menu can not be displayed to see on the Asus PC 701 (the original)

Look under document, document publishing / abiword
Replace 'document publishing' with abiword

If each Puppy has a different menu structure
- you are adding 'new' for the sake of it
and confusing users (or maybe just me) Confused

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