Quote
Look, I am offered a choice of browsers in 5.1.1, why couldn't the rest of the programs be the same way? That's [all] that i'm asking.
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Look, I bring to the scene an alert agile mind uncluttered by knowledge or ideas - the answer is they could've, but they aren't (or if you're posh and come from The Potteries "they anna").
The reason they anna is pretty obvious, at least to me.
I hope you will make your OS widely available when it is finalised.
Wishing for a TRUE clean slate Puppy 5.1.?
Sir Jasper wrote: I hope you will make your OS widely available when it is finalised.
Well I would, but according to all sources here, no one in the entire world would want or appreciate such.
Someone else mentioned Browserlinux, and I would have to second that as a wonderful choice, almost perfect for what I envision, runs about 60 mb's less of ram at beginning idle than 5.1.1, I downed the latest beta last night and it runs really well, got rid of FF and Chrome and loaded Iron from the repo and it ran even better. Very well done puplet, just needs a little more haircut, and some tweaks to be what i'd like to see.
Coopsurv's methodology is working well.
Woof continues to give me puplets lacking some functionality, though I did get the internet connected finally on my test machine with the forcedeth driver, just still no automatic detection, and it won't mount one of my partitions on the hard drive, the linux partition strangely enough, it sees the NTFS okay though I do get a warning that ntfs-3g won't work and it has to fallback to another way to do so.
Look, if all ya got to say is that my request is a dumb request, you might as well give it a rest, because it's not a dumb request, everyone I have spoken to that's NOT all wrapped up in their insular little distro-specific world, thinks it's a great idea and very reasonable, everyone I have shown Puppy Linux, think's it's great, but is a bit taken aback at all the menu choices, and even more taken aback when I tell them they can't get rid of any of them. Barry Kauler even posted a link to a review on his blog one day, where the reviewer said something to the same effect, and BK further said that though it didn't bother him, that it might be something to consider.
So open your minds, this is not a ridiculous request in the least, it's very simple and sensible. And i've already said that i'll do it myself, so feel free to go try to enforce your will on other folks, i'm not big on bending a knee.
No, SliTaz is tiny, 30 mb iso, around 145 fully loaded, and it's fully functional.hillside wrote: #2. Puppy is tiny. There is no way this OS can be considered bloated in today's world. (strictly my opinion, but then, I like to think I'm always right .
Puppy is 130 mb, and over 300 fully loaded.
Not asking for SliTaz redux, just want a slimmer Puppy that I decide what is pre-loaded software, again, this is NOT a silly request, this is one of the big reasons people build their own computers instead of buying an HP or other brand, it's not because it's cheaper, because it's not, it's because if they build their own, then they can just load the OS and programs they want, and not have to spend hours and hours rooting out junk they don't want.
Puppy loads in ram, that is it's strength and where all the speed comes from and is the recommended way to use it. Every program that comes with it that I don't need, squats in my ram, taking up memory that I could use elsewhere, like say to run the programs I DO use. Why is that so hard to understand? Why is that such a foreign and outrageous concept to some people here? I'm not getting that attitude at all, seems pretty intuitive to me given the nature and concept of this OS.
I think both ideas are very good. I fully support your view on a Linux distro.Puppy loads in ram, that is it's strength and where all the speed comes from and is the recommended way to use it.
Every program that comes with it that I don't need, squats in my ram, taking up memory that I could use elsewhere, like say to run the programs I DO use.
Why is that so hard to understand? Why is that such a foreign and outrageous concept to some people here?
I'm not getting that attitude at all, seems pretty intuitive to me given the nature and concept of this OS.
I've looked for such small programs too since 2008 or so.
So I fully understand your needs and agree.
But I can see the merit in the Puppy approach too. To have a Swiss Army Knife distro that can do most if not all of what a newbie want.
I think both approaches should be encouraged.
But within the Puppy community at the moment it seems more people agree with those that want Puppy to be like they are used to and you and me and a few others see much merit in something that allow the user to load and try out and then discard all programs they don't need. and that that make it thinner and thinner so it can work good in very little RAM.
One of my Desktops from 2003 has only 256 MB so that don't work well with Streaming videos from our local TV station.
Even on my PB Laptop with 500MB it crash almost daily when I open too many tabs with Daily News articles with much Flash content.
I use Noscript and only open what is needed and still it crash now and then. So one need an OS that has as few programs going as possible.
But I love Puppy. Life would be very complicated if I had to use Ubuntu or Mint. Much steeper learning curve to get things going.
Still I love your approach too. But I am the resident Nooby so I have no say in such matters. The Devs do what they love to do and if they don't feel for it then they don't do it.
So if you have the knowledge please share when you have succeeded to describe how you managed to get a really small Linux with the modularity and choice that both of us long for.
Much appreciated if such come forth in near future.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
No need at all, your comments were anything but rude, i'm sorry if it seemed like I was implying that you were, you were actually very gracious, thank you for replying.hillside wrote:Dragynn,
I'm sorry if my comment to your thread seemed rude. I certainly didn't mean it that way. Good luck with your project.
I can be....very vehement at times. One of my many failings i'm sure.
"Where people wish to attach, they should always be ignorant. To come with a well-informed mind is to come with an inability of administering to the vanity of others which a sensible person would always wish to avoid."
~Jane Austen
~Jane Austen
Nooby, the Turbodog Xtreme version runs really light, the interface is just very minimal, but you can turn the conventional desktop icons back on I have found, just have to check through the menus.
SliTaz is probably the way to go for now on 256-or-less machines, it's what i've been running on my old PIII with 512, and it's a real joy on that machine, has a fair amount of software available too (just no Iron browser yet, lol), doesn't have anything close to as many choices as what is possible with Puppy though, you can "cook" your own package supposedly from a deb tar.gz, but like a lot of utilities i've found in these small distros, doesn't work so far and no walkthroughs for us noobs.
It runs around 145 mb's in total use at idle on my machine when I first fire it up, less after I pull out some stuff I don't need, which is also one of the nice features, you still can't edit the ISO obviously, but the package manager WILL let you delete packages that are pre-installed that you don't want, and you can persist the changes via a save file.
I should note that i'm using the 3.0 Xvesa version, which makes for less bloat to start with using xvesa exclusively, and I never have to ctrl-alt-backspace to the Xorgwizard, it just fires right up on any computer pretty much.
This is another choice I would wish for in Puppy, if the machine is new enough and has enough ram, I always use Nvidia or Ati drivers anyway, and if it's old, I stick with vesa or Xvesa, I never use Xorg, hardly ever works anyway from what i've seen, 1 machine out of 5 at my house.
Good luck and thanks for your comments, i'll let you know if I ever figure out how to slim this thing down without stripping functionality, trying to work my way through dependency lists right now, and figure out why it's not mounting linux partitions and auto-applying the correct modem driver on my Woof-cooks. Coopsurv's method works like a charm for manually removing files, only problem is, some packages install a LOT of files in a LOT of places, hard to find them all and also figure out what libs they installed that you don't need.
*edit* Forgot to mention, since you are using a desktop with 256, that SliTaz does offer an easy easy full install option, I tried it just for kicks on my old laptop and it worked perfectly from the get-go, you lose the all out speed you get from running it totally in ram obviously, but your ram footprint at idle drops down to a ridiculously small number, I think mine was using like 25 mb's at idle.
SliTaz is probably the way to go for now on 256-or-less machines, it's what i've been running on my old PIII with 512, and it's a real joy on that machine, has a fair amount of software available too (just no Iron browser yet, lol), doesn't have anything close to as many choices as what is possible with Puppy though, you can "cook" your own package supposedly from a deb tar.gz, but like a lot of utilities i've found in these small distros, doesn't work so far and no walkthroughs for us noobs.
It runs around 145 mb's in total use at idle on my machine when I first fire it up, less after I pull out some stuff I don't need, which is also one of the nice features, you still can't edit the ISO obviously, but the package manager WILL let you delete packages that are pre-installed that you don't want, and you can persist the changes via a save file.
I should note that i'm using the 3.0 Xvesa version, which makes for less bloat to start with using xvesa exclusively, and I never have to ctrl-alt-backspace to the Xorgwizard, it just fires right up on any computer pretty much.
This is another choice I would wish for in Puppy, if the machine is new enough and has enough ram, I always use Nvidia or Ati drivers anyway, and if it's old, I stick with vesa or Xvesa, I never use Xorg, hardly ever works anyway from what i've seen, 1 machine out of 5 at my house.
Good luck and thanks for your comments, i'll let you know if I ever figure out how to slim this thing down without stripping functionality, trying to work my way through dependency lists right now, and figure out why it's not mounting linux partitions and auto-applying the correct modem driver on my Woof-cooks. Coopsurv's method works like a charm for manually removing files, only problem is, some packages install a LOT of files in a LOT of places, hard to find them all and also figure out what libs they installed that you don't need.
*edit* Forgot to mention, since you are using a desktop with 256, that SliTaz does offer an easy easy full install option, I tried it just for kicks on my old laptop and it worked perfectly from the get-go, you lose the all out speed you get from running it totally in ram obviously, but your ram footprint at idle drops down to a ridiculously small number, I think mine was using like 25 mb's at idle.
"Where people wish to attach, they should always be ignorant. To come with a well-informed mind is to come with an inability of administering to the vanity of others which a sensible person would always wish to avoid."
~Jane Austen
~Jane Austen
A big thank you to "Mr." martin over in another thread, as I told him, Puppy DOES have Samba, though just the client, and in truth I didn't know what it was, thought maybe it was a building block. His ranting caused me to spend a few minutes reading wikipedia, and if I hadn't, I wouldn't have known the truth about this steaming heap of detritus, that was at one time squatting on my ram and taking up valuable space. Which brings me to another small feature that I really like about Puppy:
You don't have to type "sudo" to delete stuff.
How big of an iso is six going to be? 150mb? 200? yikes.
You don't have to type "sudo" to delete stuff.
How big of an iso is six going to be? 150mb? 200? yikes.
"Where people wish to attach, they should always be ignorant. To come with a well-informed mind is to come with an inability of administering to the vanity of others which a sensible person would always wish to avoid."
~Jane Austen
~Jane Austen
Dragynn,
I've just realised that no one has pointed you too pUPnGO here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51478
One option for this does not even have a GUI and at 6-7MB should suit you down to the ground.
Version six ISO size? They haven't decided on a roadmap yet so who knows (should it ever appear of course).
I've just realised that no one has pointed you too pUPnGO here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51478
One option for this does not even have a GUI and at 6-7MB should suit you down to the ground.
Version six ISO size? They haven't decided on a roadmap yet so who knows (should it ever appear of course).
That's EXACTLY what I was looking for! I think anyway....the "desktop" version with full drivers and Xvesa/JWM sounds like what I want, but Mediafire is saying it doesn't have any servers available with the requested info on them currently....lol...i'll try again later, thanks BIG-TIME for the heads-up,ICPUG wrote:Dragynn,
I've just realised that no one has pointed you too pUPnGO here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51478
One option for this does not even have a GUI and at 6-7MB should suit you down to the ground.
Version six ISO size? They haven't decided on a roadmap yet so who knows (should it ever appear of course).
"Where people wish to attach, they should always be ignorant. To come with a well-informed mind is to come with an inability of administering to the vanity of others which a sensible person would always wish to avoid."
~Jane Austen
~Jane Austen