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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
"Lucid" puppy 5.1 not recognizing winmodems
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Mon 16 Aug 2010, 19:24    Post subject:  "Lucid" puppy 5.1 not recognizing winmodems
Subject description: No dialup via Puppy 5.1 using installed winmodems
 

With regard to recognizing winmodems (minimum hardware-based dialup modems requiring the various Windows operating systems to operate the winmodems), I have finished testing Puppy 5.1, Quirky Retro 1.2, and Puppy 4.3.1 -- all booted into ram memory via (F2) -- on sixteen (16) different Pentium computers -- laptops and desktops -- ranging from those originally sold with Windows 98 (first edition, not second edition), continuing through Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, up to and including Windows XP SP3, and the results are as follows:

1. Puppy 4.3.1 recognized all sixteen winmodems, and all 16 winmodems dialed to a successful dialup connection.

2. Quirky Retro 1.2 recognized all sixteen winmodems, and all 16 winmodems dialed to a successful dialup connection.

3. Lucid Puppy 5.1 recognized none of the sixteen winmodems, so naturally Puppy 5.1 could dial none of them.

4. By using an external hardware modem that operates on both USB and external RS232 serial connections, and by booting all into ram memory via (F2), Puppy 5.1, Quirky Retro 1.2, and Puppy 4.3.1 recognized and successfully dialed the external serial modem to a useable dialup connection via a USB or a serial cable connection, or both, on all sixteen machines.

Is there something that I should be doing with Lucid Puppy 5.1 to get it to dial and connect to PPP via winmodems?

Hail Puppy!

Raman
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Sat 04 Sep 2010, 14:48    Post subject: Puppy 5.1 fails to recognize winmodems -- still
Subject description: Dialup winmodems critical for many users
 

I note that no one has replied to the apparent fact that "Lucid" Puppy 5.1 does not recognize installed winmodems, even though there seems to be considerable interest in the apparent fact that "Lucid" Puppy 5.1 does not recognize installed winmodems.

One of the many advantages of the Puppy linux concept is the incorporated ability to make older machines work on the internet, and Puppy has certainly done that over time. And another of the many advantages of the Puppy linux concept is to maintain the many advantages of Puppy over time, even into the upgraded and improved releases.

My hobby – becoming an avocation – is salvaging older computers, desktops and laptops, and then returning them to useful computing on the internet, giving them away to folks who say they want them and appear to benefit from their use on the internet.

It goes without much saying that Puppy linux makes this task easier for me, and by doing so, it makes Puppy an increasingly popular linux distribution among folks who, without the availability of free computers, probably would not enjoy the many, many benefits of internet computing.

Happily or unhappily, much if not most of this low budget internet computing must necessarily take place on the less advanced and much cheaper dialup connections, which of course means via installed winmodems.

So, I advocate for the continuing power of Puppy winmodem computing, which in turn necessarily means that I must continue to advocate for the latest releases of Puppy and puppy variants to maintain the ability to recognize installed winmodems, and effectively dial them to useable internet connections.

Perhaps the current apparent inability of Puppy 5.1 to recognize winmodems can be fixed?

Hail Puppy!

Raman
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Sat 04 Sep 2010, 15:00    Post subject: Huge Problem  

I had so much trouble with printers on Lucid I never got around to the dial up issue. I agree that is a basic function Puppy was originally designed for.

I am surprised there has not been a bigger response.
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9066
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 04 Sep 2010, 15:15    Post subject: Re: Huge Problem  

Frank Cox wrote:
Huge Problem ... I had so much trouble with printers on Lucid ....

I couldn't find any posts from you concerning printers and Lucid. Is there a particular issue you want to discuss?
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 04 Sep 2010, 19:15    Post subject:  

Modem support is a matter of having a Linux kernel with modem drivers compiled for it. Currently we cannot compile all of those drivers with recent kernels. Thus, you need a Puppy with an older kernel.

You may be interested in Wary 0.7 which offers "mix-n-match":

http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=01792

The problem with Ubuntu is that it is designed to work with the 2.6.33 or later kernel (or is that 2.6.32) and we cannot compile all modem drivers with it. Perhaps in the future the modem drivers will be upgraded, but cannot say if/when.

_________________
http://bkhome.org/news/
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Sat 04 Sep 2010, 23:03    Post subject: Thank you for the explanation re: winmodems
Subject description: Puppy 4.3.1 & Quirky Retro 1.2 work fine
 

Thank you for your explanation of the current winmodem problem.

I personally have had so little trouble with Puppy over the years that naturally I have come to expect something akin to (virtual) perfection from the various Puppy releases.

Perhaps sometime soon the winmodem problem can be solved in the newer releases of Puppy and its many excellent variants.

Until then, Puppy 4.3.1 and Quirky Retro 1.2 will work fine.

Thanks again.

Hail Puppy!

Raman
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Mon 06 Sep 2010, 04:36    Post subject: Re: Huge Problem  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Frank Cox wrote:
Huge Problem ... I had so much trouble with printers on Lucid ....

I couldn't find any posts from you concerning printers and Lucid. Is there a particular issue you want to discuss?


Thanks

That was over a month or so ago I was trying to install a HP printer for a customer but I got so frustrated I just set Ubuntu up and it installed it automatically. I think I will just stick with 431 for a while longer.

I may take you up on it one of these days though. Appreciate the offer,
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Mon 06 Sep 2010, 04:42    Post subject: Thanks  

Thanks for the explanation Barry, I am happy with 431 but I might have a go at the wary you suggested.
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Thu 09 Sep 2010, 02:05    Post subject: Puppy Linux Should Recognize WinModems And Dialup
Subject description: Puppy has been the ONLY dialup distribution, and should be again
 

With regard to recognizing winmodems, I have finished testing Puppy 5.1.1, Quirky Retro 1.2, and Puppy 4.3.1 -- all booted into ram memory via (F2) -- on seventeen (17) different Pentium computers -- laptops and desktops -- ranging from those originally sold with Windows 98 first edition, continuing through Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, up to and including Windows XP SP1 and SP2 and SP3, with the addition today of a newish VISTA box, and the results are as follows:

1. Puppy 4.3.1 recognized all 17 winmodems, and all 17 winmodems dialed to a successful dialup connection.

2. Quirky Retro 1.2 recognized all 17 winmodems, and all 17 winmodems dialed to a successful dialup connection.

3. Lucid Puppy 5.1.1 recognized none of the 17 winmodems, so naturally Puppy 5.1.1 could dial none of them.

4. By using an external hardware modem that operates on both USB and external RS232 serial connections, and by booting all into ram memory via (F2), Puppy 5.1.1, Quirky Retro 1.2, and Puppy 4.3.1 recognized and successfully dialed the external serial modem to a usable dialup connection via a USB or a serial cable connection, or both, on all 17 machines.

Is there something that I should be doing with Lucid Puppy 5.1.1, or for that matter, with Puppy 5.1, to get the current Puppy release to dial and connect to PPP via winmodems? And if there is nothing that I can do, should Puppy developers move to maintain the unique position that Puppy has previously held vis-a-vis analogue dialup modems among the current Linux distributions? Current Linux distributions have apparently all but abandoned incorporating analogue dialup modems in their various toolkits, and consequently have effectively dropped practical support for them.

Vast numbers of dialup users exist in every corner of our world, and vast numbers of potential linux users are now being denied effective dialup in all current Linux distributions that I have now tried to use on dialup, as judged by my starting at the top of the popularity list of distrowatch.com and moving down to number eleven, which is Puppy linux. As of today, as far as I can determine though actual testing, no current linux distribution adequately services the needs of the dialup user, unless that dialup user is especially skilled in the use of scripts and related programing techniques.

Parenthetically, I think it is important to remember that in the current economic climate worldwide, various sources are now reporting that the numbers of dialup users are in fact increasing worldwide. Which is a telling commentary. And ought to be viewed as a “marketing opportunity” for Puppy linux.

Let’s have our dialup Puppy back.

Hail Puppy!

Raman

Last edited by Raman on Sun 12 Sep 2010, 16:48; edited 1 time in total
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Fox7777


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 132
Location: Lacey, WA

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep 2010, 16:53    Post subject: RE: "Lucid" puppy 5.1 not recognizing winmodems
Subject description: Currently you need to use Puppy 4.3.1
 

We had the same problem. If you are setting up a dialup computer, you currently need to use Puppy 4.3.1. Perhaps this will be fixed in the future.
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Sun 26 Sep 2010, 13:25    Post subject: Quicky 1.3 Dos Not Recognize WinModems
Subject description: Puppy needs to recognize and dial WinModems for PPP
 

Quirky 1.3 does not recognize WinModems fitted to the fourteen (14) reclaimed laptops and desktops currently available for testing here.

According to various dialup provider sources, including the popular Freedom List http://www.freedomlist.com/ which provides connections to dialup providers around the world, including free ISP dialup providers, the numbers of dialup users is finally increasing around the world, after a long, slow decline worldwide.

Puppy linux has been – and should be again -- the ONLY linux distribution that can adequately provide easy dialup connections to the large base of low-speed users around the world.

We need our dialup Puppy back.

Hail Puppy!

Raman
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Sun 10 Oct 2010, 16:25    Post subject: Testing Wary-090-k2.6.30.5_scsi_modem.iso for winmodem boot
Subject description: Some machines boot, some machines do not boot
 

Using my current inventory of eleven (11) very old to fairly new PC's -- desktops and laptops -- booting with Wary-090-k2.6.30.5_scsi_modem.iso, with special emphasis on whether Wary-090-k2.6.30.5_scsi_modem.iso recognizes winmodems, the results obtained are as follows:

1. All six (6) desktops and laptops manufactured within the last five or six years (or so) both booted properly and recognized the mounted winmodems (software modems) commonly installed in Windows machines of these types. All of these machines logged into a usable dialup internet connection.

2. None of the five (5) desktops and laptops manufactured before, and sometimes long before, the last five or six years would successfully boot at all, with all of these machines giving the following error message, or variations of the following error message:

“Loading initrd.gz isolinx: Disk error 80“

“Ax=4280, diskerror 32 drive 9F”

“Boot failed: press any key to retry”

The copy of Wary-090-k2.6.30.5_scsi_modem.iso obtained from ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/ passed the MD5 test, and several types of CDROM and DVD -- both read-only and read-write -- were burned with the same copy of this ISO, using both Puppy linux and Windows-based burners.

All of the machines that would not boot this flavor of Wary 090 have successfully booted with both Puppy 4.3.1 and Quirky 1.2 Retro.

Hail Puppy!

Raman
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Raman


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: A Place Where Cows Are Sacred

PostPosted: Tue 09 Nov 2010, 16:28    Post subject: Wary 0.96: winmodems and sound-audio
Subject description: Wary 0.96 testing results using 12 very used computers
 

Using (Puppy) Wary 0.96 to boot my current inventory of twelve (12) very used desktops and laptops that together harbor processors ranging from the early pentium to the late pentium, I tested each computer with special interest in whether or not each computer recognizes and dials the installed winmodems to a useful dialup internet connection, and recognizes and activates the installed sound-audio capabilities, and the results I obtained are as follows:

1. All twelve (12) desktops and laptops booted properly and recognized the mounted winmodems (software modems) commonly installed in Windows machines of these types. Seven (7) of these machines logged into a usable dialup internet connection, and five (5) of these machines successfully logged into the ISP but did not activate a useable ppp internet connection. But all of the twelve machines produced a useable dialup internet connection via winmodems when booting with Puppy 4.3.1 and Quirky 1.2 Retro.

2. Warry 0.96 did not recognized any of the audio cards -- or equivalent -- of the twelve (12) desktops and laptops. But all of the twelve machines produced useable audio when booting with Puppy 4.3.1 and Quirky 1.2 Retro.

Hail Puppy!

Raman
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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3964
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov 2010, 15:19    Post subject:  

I would be interested if you know the `lsmod` and `modprobe` command and have ever looked into the Menu > System > BootManager to load the drivers ( kernel modules ( located at /lib/modules/ ) ) manually. I cannot imagine that these modules aren't there at /lib/modules/ .

Quote:
A Softmodem is also referred to as a Winmodem because the first commercially available softmodems mostly worked only with the Microsoft Windows family of operating systems running on IBM PC compatibles. Although their usage has become more widespread on other operating systems and machines, such as embedded systems and Linux, they are still difficult to use on operating systems other than Windows due to lack of vendor support and lack of a standard device interface. The term "Winmodem" is a trademark of U.S. Robotics but it is usually used to describe other modems with similar technologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softmodem
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 10:05    Post subject: Re: Quicky 1.3 Dos Not Recognize WinModems
Subject description: Puppy needs to recognize and dial WinModems for PPP
 

Raman wrote:
Puppy linux has been – and should be again -- the ONLY linux distribution that can adequately provide easy dialup connections to the large base of low-speed users around the world.
My (and Barry's) goal for the past few years has been to "make it so". My focus is to ensure that puppy supports automatically any modem that linux supports. That is where the impediments are -- we need the drivers to compile in the later kernels. There is an effort to keep up, but we must wait for that to happen. Wary096 is our "leading edge" of modem development and is intended to support the old hardware (as well as the new). I welcome any feedback from you on how we are doing, and whether I (or Barry) have missed something we can fix.
Richard
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