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shinobar
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work around direct desktop

#1101 Post by shinobar »

playdayz wrote:
SOLUTION:(EDIT)
Add next lines at the tail of /etc/X11/xorg.conf0(or xorg.conf0XORG73 ?) and let it be xorg.conf, which should be preset on CD. the first xorgwizard do nothing regarding xorg.conf at the first boot.
Code:
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Keyboard0"
Driver "kbd"
Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
Option "XkbModel" "pc102"
Option "XkbLayout" "us" #xkeymap0
EndSection

Then, all traditional puppy tools work from the first boot with this breif xorg.conf. The keyboard setting need not be combined with running xorgwizard anymore.
This makes sense.
Thanks Playdayz for your understanding.
I made some test.
  1. expand lupu-503 in the working directory, and in the tree:
  2. copy WORKINGDIR/etx/X11/xorg.conf0 to xorg.conf and add the InputDevice entries at the tail.
  3. revert WORKINGDIR/usr/sbin/xorgwizard and input-wizard to that of the recent woof.
  4. modify WORKINGDIR/usr/bin/xwin. insert next code at line 295-

    Code: Select all

       # 23jul10 shinobar: add the hardware profile if not exists
       if [ "$CURRENTPROFILE" = "" ]; then
        echo "#PuppyHardwareProfile=$HARDWAREPROFILE" >> /etc/X11 xorg.conf
        CURRENTPROFILE="$HARDWAREPROFILE"
       fi
    EDIT: now i am testing next code for the line 295-

    Code: Select all

    # 23jul10 shinobar: accept new hardware profile if old ones not exist
    [ "$CURRENTPROFILE" = "" ] && CURRENTPROFILE="$HARDWAREPROFILE" 
  5. delete WORKINGDIR/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/displaylink_drv.so (<-- EDIT)
  6. dir2sfs WORKINGDIR
  7. rename the sfs as new 'lupu-503.sfs'.
  8. replace lupu-503.sfs in the frugal installed one.
  9. boot up without lupsave files.
Seems working well. But need more investigation on potential side effects.
EDIT: found that displaylink_drv.so must be ejected. If it is there, 'Xorg configure' fails, subsequently xorgwizard fails to make full xorg.conf.
Last edited by shinobar on Fri 23 Jul 2010, 12:25, edited 1 time in total.

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tubeguy
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#1102 Post by tubeguy »

playdayz wrote:tubeguy,

Sorry I didn't realize that your graphics had changed since 209. Of course something big had happened since then--we shifted to booting straight to the desktop. I have perhaps been remiss in my educational responsibility to explain this. When luci-209 booted "through" xorgwizard, then Barry's programming in xorgwizard was determining which drivers to use. When we now go straight to the desktop, it is Xorg that is determining the drivers. Sometimes Barry's script makes a better guess--particularly with older cards I am betting. However, when we boot straight to the desktop we *First* have the Xorg way, and then, if necessary we have the xorgwizard way. That is two chances to get it right and at the same time most people get a well-configured desktop right off the bat--and they like that--people have been very clear.

This has been something Xorg has been working toward since Xorg 7.3--since then Xorg has been able to auto config without an xorg.conf. We boot to a first run dialog that offers 2 buttons, OK and Make Some Changes. Those who choose to make changes can configure their Language and Locale, Keyboard Layout, and video driver and resolution by clicking two buttons.

The system does makes those changes immediately, reliably and persistently. If someone decides later that they would like to change their keyboard, and they use the Mouse/Keyboard Wizard--when they click to Change their Keyboard layout they are taken to the Video, Language and Keyboard Changer where it is explained that the keyboard and video driver must be set together. They are not taken to an error screen. If someone is determined to break the system they probably can. That seems like a long way to go though, when everything is right there on the opening screen in 3 simple clicks. If someone says, "the system doesn't work" that is wrong--and not very helpful either.
I'm on board with the way it's set up. It should go straight to a desktop because it's better for most people, that's a strategy I can get behind. Puppy is a top 10 distro and it should be as simple as possible for the most people possible. It was a simple matter to get the resolution right, no complaints here, just wanted to throw my experience out there.

My first reaction was "ah $#!%, it's Debian all over again" but after I cooled off I got it right, after all, this is Puppy we're dealing with here. I've spent hours trying to get Debian, Ubuntu and Mint to work at 1024x768, and it is still an issue for quite a few people other than myself, AFAIK Puppy is still the only one that can get it right on my laptop and still run fast, do everything I want and do it all with less than 130 meg, which is pretty amazing.
[b]Tahr Pup 6 on desktop, Lucid 3HD on lappie[/b]

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Abnormalter
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Do it simply... :)

#1103 Post by Abnormalter »

shinobar: "...Add next lines at the tail of /etc/X11/xorg.conf0(or xorg.conf0XORG73 ?) and let it be xorg.conf, which should be preset on CD"

-- Yes, as much else, I would like to see is recorded and presented in the CD...
Because for a long time I have to use own package containing patches and add-ons immediately after the start / install Puppy (some of which I presented to the community of my small 2-3 packages, see about).

shinobar: "i found xwin should be modified to accomplish direct desktop at the first boot. i am investigating."
shinobar: "...expand lupu-503 in the working directory, and in the tree..."
"...If it is there, 'Xorg configure' fails, subsequently xorgwizard fails to make full xorg.conf..."

-- Use my code by typing in the first-run script and you'll be happy! :)

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shinobar
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Re: work around direct desktop

#1104 Post by shinobar »

modify WORKINGDIR/usr/bin/xwin. insert next code at line 295-

Code: Select all

   # 23jul10 shinobar: add the hardware profile if not exists
   if [ "$CURRENTPROFILE" = "" ]; then
    echo "#PuppyHardwareProfile=$HARDWAREPROFILE" >> /etc/X11 xorg.conf
    CURRENTPROFILE="$HARDWAREPROFILE"
   fi
Another option:

Code: Select all

# 23jul10 shinobar: accept new hardware profile if old ones not exist 
[ "$CURRENTPROFILE" = "" ] && CURRENTPROFILE="$HARDWAREPROFILE" 
Think this case:
  1. Frugal install Lupu on a USB pen drive.
  2. The first boot, directoly goes the desktop.
  3. Shutdown with creating lupsave file.
  4. Move to another PC and boot up with this USB pen drive.
With the former one, and the original lupu-503, does not directly go to the desktop, but runs xorgwizard on this another PC.

If we take the later option, directly goes to the desktop with proper configuration for this another PC.
Isn't it convinient if we use this puppy installed USB pen drive on multiple PCs?

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Iguleder
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#1105 Post by Iguleder »

01micko, found some problem with the nvidia 256 PET from Quickpet: it asks you to run nvidia-xconfig, however:
1) some PETs don't require this
2) pkg-config is needed to run it, and pkg-config is part of the devx

So change the text, something like "run xorgwizard, select 'choose', type nvidia and select your desired display mode to utilize the driver and take full advantage of your computer's capabilities".

Another problem is CUPS. I couldn't enter the web interface, had to set up a loopback device which wasn't present, that's weird already. Then, I couldn't authenticate, so I opened /etc/cups/cupsd.conf and commented these lines:

Code: Select all

#iguleder: remove root authentication
# Restrict access to configuration files...
#<Location /admin/conf>
#  AuthType None
#  Require user @SYSTEM
#  Order deny,allow
#</Location>
Now it works.
Last edited by Iguleder on Fri 23 Jul 2010, 12:02, edited 1 time in total.

ICPUG
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#1106 Post by ICPUG »

Just to say that I have now tested 503 on my laptop with Intel 855 graphics.

I reran the tests I ran with 213 and everything worked OK. Live CD booted direct to desktop utilising Xorg autoconfig.

Frugal ran OK without the i915.modeset=1 bootcode. I retained the video=640x480 as it is my preference to have larger characters in terminal mode.

Changed keyboard and resolution and changed to intel driver. All OK except for the touchpad tapping and scroll. Use 'configure your touchpad' to set that correct.

All OK.

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shinobar
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nvidia packages

#1107 Post by shinobar »

nvidia-xconfig fails at the first boot, where the xorg.conf is not completed.
we need to run xorgwizard and 'choose' nvidia, but 'probe' fails as Iguleder desclibes.

I found. After the first run, install nvidia-glx, type on the virtual terminal:

Code: Select all

modprobe nvidia
And then, run xorgwizard. This time xorgwizard 'probe's nvidia.
Such a pinstall.sh performing 'depmod && modprobe nvidia' will help xorgwizard to probe nvidia drivers successfully.

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01micko
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#1108 Post by 01micko »

shinobar

We have taken care of nVidia, please trust me on this :wink:

We are fully aware of the failure of nvidia-xconfig and have adjusted all the 'official' nVidia driver DOT_pets accordingly. There is also a help file in Quickpet that will open in the user's browser, (coming soon) giving the user full instructions and the chance to translate if their browser has the capability.

In saying that, I wonder how Ubuntu get around that issue? Though, I'm sure they have more developer resources in their stock pile.

Cheers
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Iguleder
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#1109 Post by Iguleder »

nvidia-xconfig needs the devx, shinobar. That's the problem. I didn't try probing without nvidia loaded, because I chose it.

The best thing to do is a pinstall.sh that does modprobe nvidia and shows a message that asks the user to choose nvidia. :)

EDIT: 01micko, is it possible to use sed and replace "nv" with "nvidia" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf? :wink:
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01micko
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#1110 Post by 01micko »

Iguleder wrote:nvidia-xconfig needs the devx, shinobar. That's the problem. I didn't try probing without nvidia loaded, because I chose it.

The best thing to do is a pinstall.sh that does modprobe nvidia and shows a message that asks the user to choose nvidia. :)

EDIT: 01micko, is it possible to use sed and replace "nv" with "nvidia" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf? :wink:
Of course if /etc/X11/xorg.conf was fully formed, or even rpl.. but it's not, so we instruct users to go through xorgwizard... not the most user friendly way but users are not idiots either.

if only Windows was this easy...
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playdayz
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#1111 Post by playdayz »

Thanks Playdayz for your understanding.
I made some test.
Thanks for you work. I *think* I have a simpler way. I am about to start. We will still boot directly to the desktop, you understand. I hope this will appear in Lupu-504 later today. Thanks.

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shinobar
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nvidia

#1112 Post by shinobar »

lguleder, don't worry. our micko will resolve them all.

The problem comes from:
  1. nvidia-xconfig does not support our fake xorg.conf, but requires full xorg.conf.
  2. xorgwizard does not modprobe nvidia unless nvidia not chosen.
another test: (without devx)
  1. first run lupu. auto desktop with nv. but at this point of time the xorg.conf is a fake.
  2. run xorgwizard. it probes nv again. but this time full xorg.conf created.
  3. install nvidia-glx.
  4. go to console and run nvidia-xconfig.
  5. xwin. the desktop comes with nvidia.
Last edited by shinobar on Fri 23 Jul 2010, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.

Stripe
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#1113 Post by Stripe »

Hi All

Following on from my previous post
After installing the three patches/downloads from 01micko
Have been running 503 as my main system to test it, everything works fine (that I use) under normal conditions. Find it strange having 2 window managers but have used both and both OK.

Playdayz Ayttm has been fully tested and is perfect after 01mickos patches were applied. :D

one small problem, installed conky and it sent my Pwidgets (that I use for system monitoring) into seperate xwindows titled conky, either seems to work perfectly on their own but pwidgets does not seem to work properly when installed together. (cant remember this happening with 213 if that helps)

hope this helps
Don

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Abnormalter
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#1114 Post by Abnormalter »

nvidia-xconfig does not support our fake xorg.conf, but requires full xorg.conf.
Guys, you can spit at silly faked xorg.conf, - you "have cheap or driving"? ;)
I'm repeat, "Do it simply, stupid!" (C)

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shinobar
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faked xorg.conf

#1115 Post by shinobar »

Abnormalter wrote:Guys, you can spit at silly faked xorg.conf,
Abnormalter, I thought so before getting the infomation from you that we can add the InputDevice section on the fake xorg.conf.
it is not bad because it is the key of the auto config.

But keeping the hardware info on the fake xorg.conf is meaningless and inconsitent.
modifying one line in xwin is another key of the auto config, i think.

As for the nvidia-xconfig, it is not a problem if the xorgwizard can.

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Abnormalter
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#1116 Post by Abnormalter »

shinobar,
"keeping the hardware info on the fake xorg.conf is meaningless and inconsitent" -- it's not correctly on practice, as minimal, for this input device section because using xkbd configurator or/and add an other language, include uses the first run tools, NOW REWRITE any defaults values them.
But this way *really* resolve this described above problem (and it resolves analogically problem for really Puppy users).
About Nvidea dev problem I cannot take a codes because I haven't this device... :(
(I use Radeon & Intel Graphics chips on my PCs.)
But I think it is analogically problen with 'fake xorg.conf' -- because excludes now from it an needs info, who really need to a Nvidea configurator.
Simply solution: give it to the conf and do not fooling either any users or this Nvidea configurator...
=)
Technocratic mind is poor mind... Really practice it's main rules ;)

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shinobar
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PuppyHardwareProfile

#1117 Post by shinobar »

Abnormalter wrote:shinobar,
"keeping the hardware info on the fake xorg.conf is meaningless and inconsitent" -- it's not correctly on practice, as minimal, for this input device section
Abnormalter, you are right as for the input device section for keyboard.
it is essencial in practically and logically because the X server does not have any way to detect keyboard properties.

I had to say:
keeping graphic tip and display info on the comment line is meaningless and inconsitent whereas the xorg.conf requesting auto confg of them.

Traditional puppy, or say woof, xorgwizard leaves a comment line on the tail of the xorg.conf such as like:

Code: Select all

#PuppyHardwareProfile=NVIDIAAcerG235H
it indicates the xorg.conf has the entry for NVIDIA graphic tip and AcerG235H display.
xwin checks this and knowing if the hardware changed, runs xorgwizard.

The fake xorg.conf for univasal has no entry for the graphic nor display.
In this case the comment line should be blank, i think.

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Abnormalter
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#1118 Post by Abnormalter »

Of course, in practice, this method helps. IMHO the main thing. :)

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#1119 Post by JustGreg »

I have updated the instructions for installing Nvidia 256.35. I posted a new pet with them in the drivers section of Additional Software. I have re-done the install script. Here are the instructions:

"Nvidia Xorg driver" "NOTICE: You will need to configure X server to activate Nvidia driver:
1. Exit from X to prompt (see Shutdown menu)
2. Type "xorgwizard" (without the quotes),
If you are starting from the boot configuration, you may have to go through the following screens
a. You may have to select the keybaord.
b. You may have to select the locale.
c. You may have to select the time zone.
d. Pick the Choose button when the display screen is shown
e. Enter nvidia in the selection box, then OK
f. You may have to select the keyboard again.
g. You will have select the desired resolution, press test button
h. Press the test_x-now button
i. You should see the screen with a box listing the settings, Use the mouse to select OK
j. Select the Finsihed button.

3. Type "xwin" to restart X without quotes.
4. Menu Setup --> NVIDIA X Settings Wizard (to finetune things)

Depending on the version being used some steps may not be needed, for example Luci 213 requires the entry of keyboard, locale, and time zone but Lupu 5.0.3 does not require them. I hope this helps. I do know that Micko and Playdaz are working to include them. I hope this helps people.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

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Abnormalter
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Quickpet need a modify

#1120 Post by Abnormalter »

I find now, that the Quickpet needs to change PET' downloading place from $HOME/quickpet/download folder to /tmp because currently place provokes it to overflow save file. So, currently have pets size about 20-25 mb (for example, Internet browsers or GIMP) and needs work space about 3 * {PET-size} for install stage, it's absolutely abnormal situation! And currently place, who many users don't known, and without any mechanisme to automatically remove any downloaded PETs, -- it inevitably provokes to overflow save file and it can be confuse the puppy users very well...

2. Currently, the script who unpack PET and install it, as fact haven't a checking process of successfull to unpacking it. And currently may be situation that an unpacked files from an installed package has zero-size of... (Because has overflow save file at temporary install stage: so, $HOME/.package folder uses space from save file limit too.) It's abnormal situation twice!

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