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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » System
Woofy 0.91
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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1923
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul 2010, 09:30    Post_subject:  

The pets are integrated into the main SFS, you can't list them in any way. They don't have their uninstall information available as PETs you install manually.

Taking a pet, extracting it and removing its files from the SFS is the only way to go in this case.

Your only choice is Woof, just go the other way around, build a puplet from scratch and put only what you want Smile

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul 2010, 15:17    Post_subject:  

Iguleder wrote:
Taking a pet, extracting it and removing its files from the SFS is the only way to go in this case.

Of course, this would only remove the dependencies if they were present in the package..

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1829
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul 2010, 17:13    Post_subject:  

sc0ttman wrote:
smokey01 wrote:
That's great but what about all the associated files and dependencies. Are they left behind or do they get deleted too.

Example: If you search for 'abiword', everything with 'abiword' in the name gets removed - including any files (of any name) that are inside any folders that match 'abiword'.

Smokey01 wrote:
This didn't work for me. I tried to remove abiword but it was still there on the remaster


This removes most stuff, but I was gonna do the same as Moo - add pets to a directory and they get removed..
But this requires users to have the pet files of the stuff they want deleted, and it's a fair bit slower..

smokey01 wrote:
Yes and means you need a lot of additional pets that you really are not going to use except as a reference to delete original.


Finding these pets, and gettting the correct versions may be a problem..
And it still doesnt solve the dependencies 'issue'..
smokey01 wrote:
True


About this issue - there is no way a user can safely remove the dependencies of any app, without knowing the name of those libs and which other apps share them..

There is no way to automatically and safely remove all libs, if the user doesn't know what can be removed safely..

smokey01 wrote:
Agree


So, there is no real value in having or building a list of dependencies for apps, because users will still need to know which are safe to remove.

Users cannot escape the need for this knowledge - so putting the libs you want removed in the list is as easy as it can get..


There is a solution. puppy needs a database of installed software that can be safety removed. The database needs to include all files and dependencies. It also needs to be able to identify shared files and dependencies. This should be part of the basic puppy structure. By having something like this it would be very simple to add and remove applications safely. It could be achieved with something as simple as a gui with check boxes. Untick the check box and the package is deleted. Check it and the package is downloaded and installed. Ok, nothing is ever that simple but by having a database or reference file for all removable applications would be very useful.

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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1923
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul 2010, 05:43    Post_subject:  

Go ahead and code such a thing ... I know it's impossible to get this perfect.

You can't make lists of all files and what packages they belong to. There are things you still won't be able to remove, like stuff installed with post-installation scripts.

And, you can't make this thing automatic, unless you use a different package/repo format. Go ahead, make your own PPM. Laughing

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1829
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul 2010, 06:15    Post_subject:  

Iguleder unfortunately my skills are not that advanced. If they were I would do it and believe me I have tried. Time is my biggest killer. Although I'm getting on a little I still work 10 hour days.

I think the easiest way might be to build a very bare bones pup with woof then add only the packages you want. The problem with this is all the installed packages end up in the save file and not the main sfs file. I guess it would be possible to create a special sfs file which could be loaded with boot manager. Once all the bugs were sorted then use either moo or woofy to consolidate all the files into the one sfs. Would this work?

There are so many different puppy distos and many of them are great. I continually hear people say, If I could just get rid of these few applications that I never use and add these it would be perfect. The adding part is easy and the removing of added applications is also quite easy with PPM. It's getting rid of the original files that is the issue for most people. Woof is great and very useful but beyond the grasp of many.

Keeping the mind active and having these conversations certainly prevents the brain from turning to mush.

Please don't think because I make suggestions I am being critical because that's certainly not my intent. I have worked with many in the forums to solved a great number of problems. Helping people is what I enjoy.

Regards

Smokey

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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1923
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Fri 02 Jul 2010, 06:35    Post_subject:  

It's alright, I understand you and totally agree with you.

I wrote a tool that downloads all PETs used to build a certain Puppy ... it also has Slackware support for spup (let me tell you a secret: I'm trying to build my own Woof-like thing Wink). I'm currently trying to make a local copy of all 4.3.1 PETs ... I want to try to strip it down with Moo to produce a true barebones 4.3.1.

Regarding the barebones Puppy many people want, it's quite hard to achieve that, dependencies are quite complicated and most of the space in the main SFS is taken by massive amounts libraries and important things like kernel modules.

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 06 Jul 2010, 12:47    Post_subject:  

As I mentioned earlier, I would like to make Woofy automatically add bugfixes to remastered ISOs.

These bugfixes would be added silently, without the user needing to do anything.

So.. I'd like suggestions for which bugfixes and updates should be included in the remastered ISOs..
These bugfixes must work in all official puppy versions, not only Woof built puppies..

Here is my list of possible Woofy auto-bugfixes:
1. Patriots cleaner unmount save file thing
2. shinobars rc.sysinit improved
3. update all puppy wizards (without downloading the whole woof package)
4. make fixmenus run in /etc/rc/rc.update (already done)
5. updated rox/jwm/gtk??
6. rebuild to use distrospecs??
7. updated petget (so it looks for and installs dependencies)??? (is it possible?)
8. updated init script in initrd.gz ????
...

Any feedback on my list, or more suggestions? Please help! Thanks..

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tubby

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Tue 06 Jul 2010, 13:54    Post_subject:  

Talking about installed files, have you looked in Barry's latest spup. In the root/.packages there is a folder with all the installed packages and where the dependencies are.
I think this is what you may be looking for.
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 09 Jul 2010, 18:15    Post_subject:  

tubby wrote:
Talking about installed files, have you looked in Barry's latest spup. In the root/.packages there is a folder with all the installed packages and where the dependencies are.
I think this is what you may be looking for.

Tried looking around, couldn't find spup Embarassed
Where can I get it? I wanna have a look at it..

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upnorth


Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Wisconsin UTC-6 (-5 DST)

PostPosted: Fri 09 Jul 2010, 18:26    Post_subject: ftp://distro.ibiblio.org:21/pub/linux/distributions/quirky/test/
Sub_title: ftp://distro.ibiblio.org:21/pub/linux/distributions/quirky/test/
 

ftp://distro.ibiblio.org:21/pub/linux/distributions/quirky/test/

spup-0.4.iso is still uploading, should be done very soon, within an hour perhaps
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 15:46    Post_subject: Re: ftp://distro.ibiblio.org:21/pub/linux/distributions/quirky/test/
Sub_title: ftp://distro.ibiblio.org:21/pub/linux/distributions/quirky/test/
 

upnorth wrote:
ftp://distro.ibiblio.org:21/pub/linux/distributions/quirky/test/

spup-0.4.iso is still uploading, should be done very soon, within an hour perhaps

Thanks for that...

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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Wed 15 Sep 2010, 16:47    Post_subject: No ISO  

Some of us don't keep the ISOs, or as in Puppeee 4.3x, never had one.

As far as I can see, you are mainly operating on the main sfs file. Is there any way to use Woofy to operate only at the sfs level?
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Dragynn

Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep 2010, 12:15    Post_subject:  

Doesn't seem to want to re-master an ISO of 5.1.1, just keeps spitting out copies of it.
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep 2010, 15:27    Post_subject:  

Dragynn wrote:
Doesn't seem to want to re-master an ISO of 5.1.1, just keeps spitting out copies of it.

Are you trying to edit a 5.1.1 ISO in an earlier version?
If so, it's possible you're trying to edit an incompatible sfs...

And snail, there is a great tool called Edit-SFS which can do just that..

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Dragynn

Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep 2010, 15:33    Post_subject:  

sc0ttman wrote:
Dragynn wrote:
Doesn't seem to want to re-master an ISO of 5.1.1, just keeps spitting out copies of it.

Are you trying to edit a 5.1.1 ISO in an earlier version?
If so, it's possible you're trying to edit an incompatible sfs...

And snail, there is a great tool called Edit-SFS which can do just that..


Nope, got a fresh copy (actually 5 fresh copies now, lol) of 5.1.1 that i'm using. Also have a fresh iso that's never been burned that i'm using to try and edit.

So, trying to remaster 5.1.1 in 5.1.1.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread and replying.
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