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Vote - on the new puppy 5 serios
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its-me-again

Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 05:49    Post subject:  Vote - on the new puppy 5 serios  

lets put it to a vote the puppy 5 series.

I have heard allot of people say that dpup, upup, and lupup break if you start to install there particular .deb apps

feel free to post any good or bad experiences you may have.

Edit: now puppy 5 has advanced more what do you think now. about 5.1.1 comparing to the first Woof builds

Last edited by its-me-again on Mon 06 Sep 2010, 04:19; edited 2 times in total
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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1906
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 06:16    Post subject:  

Let's be honest. Right, Puppy 5 is very close to Puppy and not a Pubuntu as many (including me) feared.

BUT, the major goal of Ubuntu-compatibility and easy installation of DEB packages from the Ubuntu repositories was not reached. You can't use things from Ubuntu natively and easily. Lupu failed hard in this area. Rolling Eyes

However, when you look at it in the smaller scale of being just a Puppy release, it's a great release that does wonders for many users. Things like Quickpet push Puppy forward, undoubtly. Smile

I don't see any reason not to use 5 as my main Puppy. For older hardware, of course, I'd pick something else, probably the lovely 2.14x.

dpup is a different story. gposil built everything for i686, while the Debian packages are for i386. This means that dpup won't be too compatible with older hardware. That's bad.

Besides, I find dpup very pleasing, but the most annoying thing about it is its difference from other puplets and Puppy tradition (things like rxvt and Rox).

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 06:37    Post subject:  

It might be a bit early to judge Lupu as for many it does not quite 'just work' (me included). But when you get through the initial set up hurdles, there is some real progress. Just normal growing pains...............
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dio444

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 07:23    Post subject:  So far so good for me...  

So far, it seems to work quite well. Yeah, install from ubuntu repos isn't perfect yet. Maybe it won't ever be. That's a really tall order. But as long as the installed program doesn't have hundreds of unmet dependancies, it seems to work pretty well to install from the repos. So far, I'd have to say it's the best x.0 puppy I've tried. More stable than 4.0 for sure. Give us some time to work out the issues for 5.1 and I bet it will be a pretty damn good thing.

Tom
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bruisedquasar08

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Thinkpad T-23, T-60

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 09:04    Post subject: Puppy Falls short on Accessability  

I like Lucid 5 a lot. In some important ways it is a step forward. The easy choice of browsers is unique and a real help for those visually impaired. In Puppy 431, due to my visual impairment, it took many hours and help from the eyes of some young family members to render Firefox fonts so I could read them. I could not use my preferred browser, Opera.

Lucid 500 does more than make browser choice easy, they are rendered readable enough for me. A drawback is the mouse pointer. It is too small for me to find and keep track of and pcursor does not contain any cursor choices. I will have to forget about Lucid unless I can get a pointer solution that allows for my limited sight. People like me must have a pointer 3x larger and with a tail or shadowing (ghost whatever) in order to see and follow it. As it is, I invest most of my time with Lucid trying to find & track the mouse pointer.

Terminal text is very difficult for me to make out, near impossible for me to enter & I am allowed to drive a car! Think of the many visually impaired seniors who cannot quite drive anymore!

I guess my fellow handicapped are too shy to mention this or perhaps most just forget about trying to use computers. They are a vital lifeline for me, since most days I cannot read most books anymore. I can read them on a laptop screen with the brightness turned low.

Accessibility options, which come with all Windows releases since 2000 Pro are very overlooked in the Linux world. Such a package must be very easy to find and use, especially for the visually impaired and for those who must use a prosthesis or a mouth operated pointer. Once accessibility options are available and turned on, a entirely new world is opened for many people.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 18:54    Post subject: few speed bumps  

Puppy 5 lupu-500.iso seems to be visually striking (im colour blind and i like alot of blue and white) i like this and i never get into desktop themes etc im rather utilitarian with my desktop. The browser thing at the start is good, wow seamonkey 2 went on smoothly and was cool, seems to run my java runescape game better than 1.1.2 or 1.1.5

I personally dont see the point in using ubuntu repos unless you can apt-get stuff, now that would be cool. My experience with installing stuff from them repos was a real pain as there was like 10 unmet dependancies for one program and each of those unmet dependencies seemd to be missing dependencies of their own, eventually after like half hour of fiddling i was down to one dependency and lol who would have guessed, it wasnt in the damn repo lol. Half hour for nothing. At the moment with puppy 4.2 i can go and use the debian packages from their site and install single file after single file and use dpkg-deb -x <packagename> / to install stuff, this is no more difficult than using puppy 5 to get ubuntu stuff. So for me i see no imporvement at all for puppy 5 to use ubuntu packages, .pets are easier and better just like all the puppies b4 it.

also because ubuntu seem to have forgotten my FX5200 agp nvidia video card in lucid 10.4, the new puppy 5 seems to also provide no more clues than ubuntu for getting it to work, it works fine with puppy 4.2

i know i might be venting here but i have spend 18 hours in all trying to get 3D open GL stuff to work but no luck, the quickpet option has a driver too new for my card, works fine with puppy 4.2

if someone can find a 71. series nvidia driver for puppy 5 let me know.

the pet from this url works fine in puppy 4.2
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/NVIDIA-71.86.06-k2.6.25.16.pet

if there is a puppy 5 equiv then please hit me back

sickgut@gmail.com

also im usually on the irc chatroom
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 22 May 2010, 13:54    Post subject:  

since CatDude was able to help me with a .pet for my video card nvidia fx5200 i must admit i am finding puppy 5 quite sweet

i couldnt get seamonkey 2 working on puppy 4.2 but on 5 its sweet i love it
i suppose it will take a while for people to post propper .pets for this version i supose patience and time will cure this.

cant seem to find the widgets thing in the menu like the right hand side of the screen in 4.2 had a clock etc, i used to replace it with process viewer, cpu and ram usage etc and stuff that was cool

im liking this puppy 5 now but the thing about the ubuntu repos not really helping much in my opinion still stands

sickgut
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 22 May 2010, 14:11    Post subject:  

As a puppy the Luci-001 is a step forward indeed.

But maybe it is unwise to refer to ubuntu or debian. It is not there yet I guess.

those that are good at making pets out of the repository for them it works better.

So in the future maybe it will be enough such made to satisfy most?

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upnorth


Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Wisconsin UTC-6 (-5 DST)

PostPosted: Thu 27 May 2010, 13:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
Terminal text is very difficult for me to make out,


These startup parameters make for very readable text in term:

urxvt -fg white -bg black -fn "xft:Monospace:pixelsize=18"

When the right combination is found, right click on "console" icon, click "edit item" and paste the startup options in under "arguments to pass".


Here is what I use now for example of transparent xft-enabled term:

-tr -fg white -tint gray -sh 80 -fn "xft:Bitstream Vera Sans Mono:pixelsize=14"

but this depends on added bitstream monospace ttf font, so "Monospace" can be substituted there for those with a default setup.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to the vote, lupu works fine on my older machine, it's stable and smooth. I never have need to use the quickpet or browser-installer, but they are good features to have. I really like dpup and quirky/wary too.

The .deb compatability exists in 431 and other puppy versions as well. It is dpkg-deb that does some of the work. I don't think the install scripts in a deb package are processed though in any version. That's because they usually aren't necessary, and when they are, they usually need to be manually translated and condensed to be compatible with busybox and puppy. To look at those scripts, you can use dpkg-deb -e <package.deb> <directory>,
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bruisedquasar08

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Thinkpad T-23, T-60

PostPosted: Fri 28 May 2010, 20:15    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
cant seem to find the widgets thing in the menu like the right hand side of the screen in 4.2 had a clock etc, i used to replace it with process viewer, cpu and ram usage etc and stuff that was cool
sickgut


I'm attached to those widgets too. First thing I did with Lucid was get my favorites up & running. Just look for pwidget in one of the lucid package managers and install it. Its there.

--Bruised
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5756
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri 28 May 2010, 20:23    Post subject:  

bruisedquasar08 wrote:
sickgut wrote:
cant seem to find the widgets thing in the menu like the right hand side of the screen in 4.2 had a clock etc, i used to replace it with process viewer, cpu and ram usage etc and stuff that was cool
sickgut


I'm attached to those widgets too. First thing I did with Lucid was get my favorites up & running. Just look for pwidget in one of the lucid package managers and install it. Its there.

--Bruised


Pwidgets are in Quickpet and PPM both. Smile
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bruisedquasar08

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Thinkpad T-23, T-60

PostPosted: Fri 28 May 2010, 21:11    Post subject:  

upnorth wrote:
Quote:
Terminal text is very difficult for me to make out,


These startup parameters make for very readable text in term:
urxvt -fg white -bg black -fn "xft:Monospace:pixelsize=18"
When the right combination is found, right click on "console" icon, click "edit item" and paste the startup options in under "arguments to pass"
Here is what I use now for example of transparent xft-enabled term:
-tr -fg white -tint gray -sh 80 -fn "xft:Bitstream Vera Sans Mono:pixelsize=14"


Thank you.
I have to abandon Lucid for now. Wearing a viewer in summer heat is too much when I can make mouse pointer adjustments and have an accessibility package in Linux Mint new release. With your help, I'll wear it long enough to get Terminal text where I can read it without wearing a 24 ounce viewer. It took seconds to render the Linux Mint pointer to where I can see and keep track of it, just move the slider control until you get the size you need.

"pcursor" in Lucid is empty. When you install any mouse pointer or cursor package, pcursur can't find it. Lucid terminal text I cannot make out well enough to leash packages to pcursor. The way moderators reacted to my attempt to get someone to understand the problem reminds me of pre- "American's with Disability Act of 1981" store managers who insisted people not shop in a wheel chair. They would "instruct" such people that the chairs get in the way and make customers angry like they were ignorant, not just handicapped. I saw another fellow Vietnam Veteran, left blind by the war, have his white stick seized by Federal Court security because: "no weapons are allowed." I was nearly arrested over that one!

I thank you again for your assistance & your understanding.
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imnotrich

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jun 2010, 23:21    Post subject: Lucid compatibility with laptops  

Well, I was about to abandon Lucid because it didn't recognize or allow me to use my laptop's standard usa qwerty keyboard amd would lock up at random stages of the live cd boot up.

Quirky did the same thing, but then (and this may be a clue) so does Ubuntu 10.04 live cd. No keyboard, no joy.

Much to my annoyance either the Lucid or Quirky live cd also over wrote my Puppy 4.3.1 wifi settings and now I can't connect automatically at boot up. I have to re-enter settings again each time I boot to Puppy.

I was just about ready to give up on Puppy and Ubuntu both, when...I tried the live Lucid cd on my Dell Desktop. Joila! Within 30 minutes I had a frugal install running, on the net with my CHOICE of browser, skyping and of course flash and java working great.

Getting open office to download, install and function was a bit of a pain, and I miss my old streamtuner/xmms, there's no chess programs, no supertux, other favorite stuff. There remain very few pets for this new version.

*.debs in the Debian and Ubuntu repos which might otherwise suffice for the missing pets...many will download and pretend to install, but they don't run and there are no error messages - makes me wonder what's the point of switching to Ubuntu if we're not able to use programs in the Ubuntu or Debian repos. You might as well pick yellow dog linux or gentoo, it's about as compatible with Ubuntu as what we have now.

Another concern - I know there is a 5.1 now but my 5.0 won't find it. If I click on the "update" button, Puppy panics, locks the keyboard and mouse button (but not the cursor) and says "please wait." After 30 minutes I figured I had waited long enough ctrl-alt-backspace out. Fortunately, so far anyway no damage to the install appears to have resulted. But I'd like to suggest future versions have a progress indicator for the update. If the progress indicator reads 0 for an extended period of time instead of "please wait" then the operator might discern there is a problem.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5756
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jun 2010, 23:40    Post subject: Re: Lucid compatibility with laptops  

imnotrich wrote:

Another concern - I know there is a 5.1 now but my 5.0 won't find it. If I click on the "update" button, Puppy panics, locks the keyboard and mouse button (but not the cursor) and says "please wait." After 30 minutes I figured I had waited long enough ctrl-alt-backspace out. Fortunately, so far anyway no damage to the install appears to have resulted. But I'd like to suggest future versions have a progress indicator for the update. If the progress indicator reads 0 for an extended period of time instead of "please wait" then the operator might discern there is a problem.


There isn't a 5.1 release yet, but there is a 5.0.1. There were too many changes for the upgrade to be included in "update" in Quickpet, as addressed by Playdayz in the Lucid thread.

Concerning Ubuntu package in Lucid Puppy, there is a thread for requests/suggestions for packages to be included in Quickpet and the Lucid repository. The thread is here......
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=428078#428078
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 24 Jun 2010, 04:24    Post subject:  

Quote:
Let's be honest. Right, Puppy 5 is very close to Puppy

Exactly so.

It is a Puppy (Puppy recognition, Puppy wizards, Puppy programs)
However it is made with Woof - so that means the Linux parts can be made from Slackware,
Debian or in this case from Ubuntu programs (binary files)

That is an achievement.

Lucid (Puppy5) also booted straight into a desktop for many of us.
That is rather good. For others the traditional Puppy setup is available.

Major Programs (Quickpet) on top of the usual Puppy stream lined programs are very easy to download.
That has increased usability.
Choose your browser. Opera, Seamonkey, Firefox, Chrome. Use some major software:
* Gimp - edit pictures
* Audacity
* Wine
* Kompozer - build web site
* Thunderbird
* Songbird - manage music collection
* Java
* Graphic driver

Larry (playdayz) and Mick (mick01)
have very much worked together
and encouraged and promoted the
use of testers and feedback.
Join them and help improve the August 2010 release for 5.1
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=419879#419879
woof woof

Love Linux
Pet Puppy

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