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Lucid Puppy 5.1- A Full-Featured Compact Distro
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 12:30    Post subject:  Lucid Puppy 5.1- A Full-Featured Compact Distro
Subject description: Released Tuesday 10 AUG 2010
 

Lucid Puppy 5.1 is a “full-featured compact distro.” It’s a Puppy, so it is fast, friendly, and fun, and it can also serve as one’s main Linux desktop. Quickpet and Puppy Package Manager allow easy installation of many of the best Linux programs, tested and configured for Lucid Puppy. It is just as easy to choose your favorite browser and your language. And it all looks as good as it is, because the core Lucid team now includes an Art Director. Lucid Puppy boots directly to an automatically configured graphical desktop, with the tools to personalize the desktop right at hand, and it even recommends which add-on video driver to use for high-performance graphics.

Lucid Puppy 5.1 Release Notes -> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/puppy-5.1/release-Lucid-510.htm

This is the Official Release of Lucid Puppy 5.1. When you boot up Lucid Puppy, please check out Lupu News in Quickpet, for the latest Instant Update -> http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/LupuNews/

Lupu-510 ->
http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupu-510.iso
88f7154ffcc46062394866e531310eba

Devx ->
http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupu_devx_510.sfs
66f20ca918b0091f9774caef9fbcff00

Lupu-510 has very few changes and those are minor. Good. Here they are so you can make sure to check them.

1. New icons for Quickpet in Smooth Color and Blue Moon (CatDude)
2. Quickpet 3.0.2 (01micko)
3. jwm tray background for blinky to match Dark Gradient colors (01micko)
4. cups-shell to avoid Chromium which crashes (01micko)
5. freememapplet_tray for Icewm (01micko)
6. New Start Menu icon in Icewm Ice Desert (Eyes-Only)
7. Pmusic 1.1.1 (Zigbert)
8. Catch Input Wizard Keyboard Layout if no XkbLayout (playdayz)
9. Remove jq8flat and Orange icon themes (playdayz)

If you can think of tips that would help newbies with potential problems please write that up in this forum and I will collect and place in Bug and Newbie forum for release. Please read the Bug forum and the Newbie forum after release--those of you who have helped with development are the best qualified to provide support. Many of the things we have covered in development will appear as questions. Thanks.

Behold Lupu-509 RC. This is the final look for Lucid Puppy 5.1, courtesy of WhoDo. And remember, when you are through oohing and ahhing over jwm, there is still IceWM to blow your mind Wink

This is not the official release. When Lucid Puppy 5.1 is officially released that will be announced here and in Barry's Blog.

We plan to test for three days. Please look at
-> Installs: full, frugal, usb, ext4
-> Updating
-> Languages & Keyboards
-> Update video driver
-> Programs in Puppy Package Manager and Quickpet
-> things you had noticed previously
-> Switching JWM to IceWM
-> Anything else you can think of

There are a few changes from lupu-508--not too many thankfully--because now we measure progress by the fewness of necessary changes.
-> new jre in Quickpet (01micko)
-> Mutt email in PPM (tronkel)
-> Eudora dependencies (they were never broken--PPM just didn't look in the right place)
-> hplip_scan fixed in PPM (jim1911)
-> Gpredict satellite tracker in PPM (Stu90)
-> laptop Fn keys for sound, etc., keys (DaveS)

Announcing Lupu-508 Beta 3

The big news is what you can see. The default background is a knockout, but there more than 10 others waiting for you to discover them. It's like the Puppy Art Show. Desktop -> Desktop settings -> Nathan Wallpaper setter.

Another of the debuts is a new theme, Dark Gradient, in jwm. And then there is Icewm, with several new themes. WhoDo and 01micko have been collaborating to get Icewm tuned and looking good. Please check it out--there is an easy window manager switcher under Desktop.

Quickpet is at 2.9.9.7--just in case Wink The translations are cool--I see a lot of them in testing the Language and Locale and keyboard layout functions. 01micko has also put some great screens even inside Quickpet. BTW, the language and locale and keyboard layout seem to be working as they ought to work. They are easy to change and the change is reliable and persistent.

So, test it up. Whatever you can think of, whatever is important to you, whatever you can remember from the forum. Thanks.

Here we have Lupu-507 Beta 2.

01micko found the problem with grubconfig and a full install and we reverted to the Woof of July 10 in order to solve the problem with the puppyinstaller. I have done full and frugal installs on both my old boxes, a P3 Thinkpad and an Athlon 64 3200, and both the Universal Installer and grubconfig did what they are supposed to do.

Please test everything you can think of.

Two anomalies.
1. I made a remaster and the CD booted fine but instead of booting to the desktop it stopped at xorgwizard--not the keyboard layout but the actual xorgwizard--so it was probably xwin that sent it there for some reason. OK, I see what happened--there is some sleight of hand on first boot with xorgwizard and xorg-setup--I would just have to set that up manually.
2. The full install put up a message about Puppy 2 dependencies when it booted . I clicked Close and that was that.

This is it! Lucid Puppy Lupu-506 is Beta.

This is the combination we have been looking for. It boots directly to the desktop, and enables changing Video Resolution and Language & Locale and many people will be able to use it just like that. If not, then there is the Complete Configuration Experience. Hey, Puppy is supposed to be fun isn't it?

Lucid Puppy 5.1 is chock full of good stuff and Lupu-506 is a big step towards an imminent release. We need to find out what's going on with Grub Bootloader config (grub config). bj had reported it and several people have confirmed it--sometimes it doesn't work period--rather, ti seems to install the grub bootloader but not the grub configuration file of menu.lst.

It is possible there are artifacts left over from the experimentation--please report them if you find them,

Icewm is happy again and the cool backgrounds are still there. Developers can please check the devx.

Lupu-505 is the culmination of the work on the Video/Language/Keyboard Changer, almost like the second half of 504, which is why it is so quick. The console fonts now take effect immediately. The console fonts also take effect on first boot so that exiting to a prompt to run xorgwizard or shutdown fits nicely on the screen. The problem with changing the keyboard layout after using PPM is fixed.

01micko and WhoDo have been fancifying Icewm.

==> Please test the Grub Bootloader config--it failed for me on two computers.

==> Please test Icewm Shutdown options. My computer froze when I chose Menu -> Shutdown -> Restart X server. Be careful. Save.

I am really hoping to be able to post a beta on Wednesday.

Lupu-504 has the best of both worlds. It boots directly to the desktop, and offers independent control of Video Resolution, Language and Locale, Keyboard layout, and Timezone. It also has the Classic Xorgwizard for when that is the best solution. The independent controls allow you boot directly to the desktop and if all you need to change is the Language and locale, then that is all you have to change. The Keyboard layout control sets both the Xorg and the Console fonts. If you want to change everything all at once, well, that is there too.

Icewm is installed by default and there are two new treats in the Puppy Package Manager. One is a the WhoDo Collection of beautiful backgrounds. And the other is the Ubuntu pack of icewm themes.

There are two interesting things about the independent controls for changes people might want to make to personalize their computer. One is that it should be seamless with respect to the incomplete xorg.conf file. It doesn't matter anymore. The second is that it is not perfect and it is possible to confuse it--however, it is "robust" in that it can correct any of the problems it runs into. Sometimes it may have to go all the way to rerunning the complete classic Xorgwizard from the Video, Language, and Keyboard Changer.

The "complete" Classic Xorgwizard is available by clicking a button in the Video/Language/Keyboard Changer, but if all you want to do is to add a video driver you don't need the complete Xorgwizard (with Keyboard, Locale, Timezone, etc.), all you need is the video setting. So, that is what you can get by exiting to a prompt and entering 'xorgwizard.' Therefore, installing the nvidia drivers is much easier (as it should be).

1. Install the pet
2. exit to a prompt
3. enter xorgwizard
4. Choose nvidia
5. select the video resolution
6. xwin

We will need to change the instructions that the three nvidia pets provide but that's a small price to pay imho for the convenience.

Let's regard Lupu-503 as an alpha. There are still some things to test, but we won't be adding anything more.

Please be careful that it doesn't accidentally update an installation of Lupu 500 or 501. Pfix=ram should prevent that.

The First Run dialog should be all set now. Some people will click OK and some will want to make changes. The ones who want to make changes see the Video, Language, and Keyboard Changer: one button will change video resolution alone, a second button will change the Language and Locale, and the third button will change the Keyboard layout, the video driver, and the video resolution. No one will need to click more than two buttons. And when the keyboard is changed it is changed in both the gui and the console, immediately (after restarting X) and permanently (until it is changed).

Quickpet and the Lupu Recommends advice about upgrading graphics is also in order. Micko really made it cool and I think it gives Lupu some distinction. The Update feature has been replaced by the Lucid Puppy News.

Icewm is now built-in. Under Desktop in the Menu there is a program to switch back and forth between icewm and jwm.

We need to test the Intel 855's still. This time the magic i915.modeset=1 is in /etc/modprobe.d/ where it will carry over to full and frugal installs (instead of as a boot parameter for the CD).

The Ubuntu Ayttm has been replaced by the Puppy pet--the icon in the tray works--does do any better with msn?

We can test how it updates now. Please remember that is a one way process and don't experiment on your one and only Lupu-501 installation.

Do the fonts look good to you also?

Luci-213.

1. It includes an attempt to solve the black screen problem with some Intel video chipsets, in particular the Intel 855. This would be a good solution; it involves appending the kernel parameters i915.modeset=1 and video=640x480, recommended by ICPUG and others. If the parameters work and do not do any damage otherwise, then everyone could be using the newer intel_drv instead of the i810 driver. (If this doesn't work, then the next attempt is to intercept the offending chipsets and make sure they can only choose the i810_drv. We already have the code for that but let's test the one we would rather have first.)

2. This is the debut of Lupu Recommends, an information window at the bottom of the first run dialog. 01micko did it and it looks like magic to me. The drivers that it recommends are not all into Quickpet yet though.

3. For everyone who boots successfully to the desktop, the First Run dialog is in order. Half the people will be able to just click OK and begin having fun with Puppy. The other half can choose to change the Video Resolution, the Language and Locale, or the Keyboard Layout and Video driver. Nobody will need to do more than 2 of those 3.

4. How do the fonts look?

5. Gnome-mplayer 0.9.6 will play .ogv files correctly plus the full screen button works correctly.

Huge Announcement

01micko and playdayz are happy to announce that the Lucid Puppy team has been joined by WhoDo as Art Director. WhoDo was the coordinator of Puppy 4.2 Community Edition, which was one of the best-looking Puppies ever. WhoDo's presence should indicate to everyone inside and outside of the Puppy community that we regard the aesthetics of our distro as a top priority. After all, when people use Lucid Puppy, the desktop is what they see most of. WhoDo has already been able to create a contest at Australian Photography to choose the upcoming Lucid Puppy 5.1 background. http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=61608

WhoDo is also very experienced with Icewm and we are going to include that by default beginning in luci-213, not as the default desktop but in the iso and already tested and configured. This is a good thing we believe because 1) it gives Lucid users an alternate window manager at the cost of only about 1MB; and 2) there have been several things have to do with graphics that jwm is not doing correctly, but Icewm does.

Luci-212 - The Next Luci Before the Beta!

The Ubuntu gnome-mplayer 0.9.9.2 has been returned in luci-212. It had been exiled because the full screen icon did not work, but that is the fault of jwm. There was a report about non-English characters not displaying correctly so I thought this gnome-mplayer might be the best option we had to fix that.

The fbdev video driver is removed in luci-212, in hopes that the Intel cards that have a problem (the dreaded black screen problem) will boot with Vesa. If not we have a good idea of what to do in luci-213. Also, the i810 Intel driver is back in drivers-alternate, but I am pretty sure that Xorg now looks everywhere in modules so that the i810 is not really hidden. Well see about that I hope. darwinev0lved came back to luci just in time for his intel to give him a black screen--and we are very glad he did Wink

There is a new Quickpet--with a new feature. Under Drivers there is a button that will read your video card and tell you which of the two drivers in Quickpet you should try in order to upgrade your graphics. There is also a new feature demoed in the first run dialog--a recommendation window that will also read your video card and tell you which of the 4 available nvidia drivers is exactly right for your computer. The message in the window is just a sample for now. We will reconcile the Quickpet and first run approaches.

I used the latest Ubuntu DeJavu Sans true-type fonts as suggested in the forum by don570. I also used ecube's enhanced pdict--which now suggests the word that you might have been after.

Please remember that as of now, if you go through xorgwizard (the Video, Language & Keyboard Changer) and change the Locale Language then you will have to Restart X server (or reboot) before the language change takes effect.

I was running in Spanish in order to test Language Support and I saw that Chromium had a nice feature--it offers to translate every page with just a click--it also picks up immediately on the Locale language. I typed a message in English and Chromium's spell checker marked every word wrong--because it was checking in Spanish. Just for reference, Chromium seems to have its own ffmpeg to play multimedia--it was definitely installed in Chromium 5 because I used the Ubuntu version, but Chromium 6 is the Chromium Project version so I am not sure--I think it still has it. I could test I guess Wink

Speaking of ffmpeg, there are two additional versions in PPM. One is the i686 libraries from Ubuntu, which should use the capabilities of modern cpu's--I think everything since the P3 is a 686. The other ffmpeg is one 01micko made with the Webm capabilities enabled.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since we are going to take some more time on Nvidia I thought we might as well go ahead and do what we wanted to do anyway. Prepare to be Surprised and Amazed. I wanted to work out all the bugs but I wasn't able to: In order to make the change in Language *take* you need to go to Menu -> Shutdown -> Restart X server. All of the information seems to be in the right places, but after you change the language, please restart the X server. Hopefully someone will be able to tell me what I have missed. I think it is time we let the ubuntu xorg programs do what they were designed to do.

5 of our front line programs have Language Support: Our word processor Abiword, our spreadsheet Gnumeric, our media player gnome-mplayer, our test editor Geany, and our innovative package manager Quickpet. There is something new in the PPM--a package with the Documentation and Language Support for our image editing program mtpaint. So if you use mtpaint, you can know have it in your language with documentation. Just install the package and the language sup-port and docs are ready when you open the program. (The documentation is in English only unfortunately.)

The puppy-lucid repo of Puppy Package Manager needs to be tested. Every program should download without error and also run without error. The same with Quickpet. It took me 4 hours to go through them all yesterday.

I didn't make any real progress on nividia by the way other than making sure the nouveau driver was gone.

Please Check Everything, Especially

1. Bugs that you reported previously that were fixed - make sure they are still fixed.

2. The upgrade path for your graphics card - can you get high performance (glx) graphics - they are needed for Google Earth and Stellarium, for example - and we think everyone should consider running glx graphics for reasons of stability and performance. The driver choice is in Quickpet under Drivers. Xorg_High for all cards other than Nvidia (Radeon, Intel, and Others) and Nvidia GLX for Nivida. There are alternate Nvidia drivers in Puppy Package Manager.

3. The programs in Quickpet and Puppy Package Manager. There are quite a few of them--a lot of really excellent programs. Linux and Puppy have nothing to apologize for in terms of software of the highest quality. Do they install without errors? Do they run correctly? Stellarium requires that you use IceWM. Some other programs require that you install Python. Both are in Puppy Package Manager.

4. It would also be good to test upgrading from Lupu 5.00 and 5.0.1.

What’s new (not so much, it is time to move on)
A new ffmpeg compiled by 01micko in luci-209
The full screen button works on gnome-mplayer, compiled by playdayz in luci-209
Gtkhash added by suggestion; also a suggested change to mplayer softvol; other bugfixes
New programs in PPM, including gtk-record MyDesktop (that’s how they spell it)
Google Earth will be in Quickpet next time - here it is for now
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/pet-packages-lucid/Google_Earth-5.1-Lucid.pet

Tips & tricks
the nouveau driver and nouveau firmware are in PPM for experimenters
there are i686 libraries for ffmpeg in PPM--might be faster on newer computers (P4+)
do you have any tricks--I can compile them for new users of 5.1


luci-207 has a couple of small tweaks (libjpeg, improved kmybanking-plugin). Good things include improvement in the pdf printer. I was able to print from Abiword and Opera to accurate pdf documents. As Shinobar suggested, Lucid Puppy now automatically connects to an ethernet connection. Luvcview is added for web cam. The Synaptic touch pad configurator should work. CPU Frequency scaling should work, but I am not sure that it got all 4 cores or only two; it was upgraded by Barry to 1.3.3. There are more new programs in Puppy Package Manager. Quickpet is at 2.9 and looks great and speaks all the languages of the world. Browser-default can now determine what browsers are available.

Luci-205 marks the beginning of public testing for Lucid Puppy 5.1. Much of the work since luci-204 has gone into filling the puppy-lucid repository in Puppy Package Manager. There is a message in the Users forum asking for program suggestions and a couple of people asked for Stellarium. What a cool program--it provides information on anything in the sky from any point on earth at any time--excuse me, you can even stand on the surface of Mars! It takes some resources though--you will need to use Icewm and the high performance graphics, for Radeon, Intel, and other, or for Nvidia. And ha-ha-ha, I tried it on my Windows 7 machine and it didn't work (hmm, maybe I should have used the Windows binaries).

IMO, the PPM is looking good, with a fair percentage of the best and most useful Linux programs. But we are still open for suggestions. The goal is that people will be able to use the program they want to use, no matter where it comes from, Gnome, GTK, Qt, KDE, Windows, or Java, and use them in the fast, friendly, and fun environment of Puppy. We have not totally cracked the KDE nut however, although micko has prepared an Amarok pet. There is a list of programs at the bottom of this message.

Here are some other things, in no particular order.

=> Quickpet 2.2
=> Netsurf upgraded from 1.2 Ubuntu to 2.5 compiled in luci-204 by 01micko
=> Ayttm and Sylpheed updated and switched to Ubuntu binaries--Sylpheed from 2.7.1 to 3.0.2
=> Pa_McClamrock's revised remaster script--the old one is also available as /usr/sbin/pupremaster2.old
=> binutils upgraded to 2.20.1 and shifted to Ubuntu binaries; coreutils also upgraded and shifted to Ubuntu
=> Abiword upgraded to 2.8.6 compiled in luci-204
=> Barry's new shutdown script from Woof

IMO we are in very much better shape than last time at this same point. The graphics seem pretty well set, as basic graphics with the high performance options. Cups is better understood and therefore less frustrating. We are able to track Woof and plan to do so right up to release, where last time we froze things at about this stage. We will release a Woof that can build Lucid Puppy 5.10 when we release Lucid Puppy 5.10. Very soon now we will not be the only Puppy 5.0. Fatdog64 is on rc3 and they are just waiting for the official Firefox 3.6.4. That's going to be good to have a littermate--but even though they are the Fatdog, we are still the Big Dog! (Sorry)

Here are some things from luci-204.

=> Pa_McClamrock's enhancement of the mtpaint screen shot script
=> Flashplayer 10.1. Opera may have trouble
=> 8-bit's enhancement to the cups config file
=> The enhanced Shutdown script has been there since 203. I see that Barry has now incorporated one into Woof--so we will get that as soon as a new Woof is posted.
=> Finally, WhoDo, I got the Open With dialog to behave and show the icons.
=> Symlink to cups/backend/smb recommended by gerry, who will let me know if I got it right
=> Browser-default 0.8 from 01micko
=> Fix sns first time
=> Gnome-mplayer instead of SMPlayer because it is so much smaller. SMPlayer is in Puppy Package Manager. Gnome-mplayer plays full screen because of the changes in the basic graphics (libdri and libglx are loaded but the large hardware and software acceleration libraries are not.)
=> Abiword 2.8.5 compiled in luci-203 and then they released 2.8.6 last week.

When using the Puppy Package Manager it is safest to choose ibiblio.org for a day or two as I understand it.


Link to foomatic-db
http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/foomatic-db-20100216-lupu.pet

Link to HP printer pet ->
http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/hpijs-3.10.2-dynppd.pet

Link to HP Scanner pet ->
http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/hplip-3.9.12-scan.pet

How to Check the Graphics. Here is a set of video test samples that I used to check MPlayer ->
http://www.diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/streamingcodectest.zip

1. System -> Hardinfo -> Display and scroll down and see about the DRI. The High Performance options should all show hardware rendering.

2. Open a terminal and enter "glxgears." Move the gears out of the way and watch the numbers for frames per second in the terminal. Is it higher than you remember, by a factor of 10 or so?

Last edited by playdayz on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 16:05; edited 172 times in total
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 12:44    Post subject:  

Sounds like a good plan Smile

May I recommend some crossbreeding Cool

Puppeee which runs on my desktop - so it might work on yours
has some great progs that you might say - yep want that for Lucid 5.1
For example the boot sequence is very nice to use . . .

Dpup too might have code that we can use
and who knows what else lurks in the Puppy and Ubuntu vaults . . .

Another possibility is adding Window Manager Choice
to the Browser choice

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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 12:50    Post subject:  

Will there be bugfix releases for Lucid 5.0 or do we wait for 5.1?
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 13:15    Post subject:  

Quote:
May I recommend some crossbreeding


I am all for crossbreeding. I believe in that good old-fashioned "hybrid vigor."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Will there be bugfix releases for Lucid 5.0 or do we wait for 5.1?


Definitely bugfix release(s). Two kinds. We have the update feature in Quickpet and will have the first update in a week or so. And then there will also be a 5.0.1 in a month or so, and a 5.0.2 if necessary after that.
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jemimah


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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 13:46    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:

I am all for crossbreeding. I believe in that good old-fashioned "hybrid vigor."


I think I prefer the term cross-contamination... [crossbreeding = weird visual imagery]

Looking forward to the woof tutorial, I'm throwing around the idea of using EB4 as the base for Puppeee 5, so it'd be nice not to have to reinvent the wheel process-wise.

I've got Ramboot working in Puppeee, but ideally we'd convince Barry to implement it upstream. Saving on shutdown is tough though, since currently the save file doesn't get fully unmounted on shutdown - the only way absolutely to ensure integrity would be to copy the files down one at a time which is really slow. I have an idea to fix this, but haven't tested it yet.

Regarding browsers, I think Technosaurus is pretty close to a small, fast, stable Midori - I don't know how well it likes Cups though.
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Jim1911

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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 14:49    Post subject:  

A few minor problems that were not corrected which could be addressed in 5.1.

1. Gparted identified partitions accurately, however, some key information about partitions is not present. Most significant is the UUID which must be used in the menu.lst with some pups and is primarily used by major distros. Quirky 1.1 gparted displays information correctly. I tried reinstalling gparted using ppm from the ubuntu repository. It installed properly, but had the same problem.

2. Abiword has minor problem with CUPS-PDF not printing graphics to a pdf file. This appears to be an Abiword problem instaad of a CUPS problem. OpenOffice prints graphics properly to a pdf file.
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DaveS


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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 15:22    Post subject:  

I will just be grateful if Lupu stays in development and does not wither away like others before it Smile
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playdayz


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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 18:38    Post subject:  

Jim1911. The gparted that is in LP5 is the Ubuntu binary. In some earlier versions up to 113 or so, I'm not sure, it was the pet. I replaced it only out of a prejudice for Ubuntu binaries in LP--it was actually bigger. You might try the one in the Puppy Package Manager (the pet). Both gparted's were taking a long time on ntfs drives--eventually displaying them, but very fast on Linux drives. I see what you mean about the uuid's. Let us know if you find one please. Thanks.
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Béèm


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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 18:47    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
I would like to see a "KDE/QT" base option in Quickpet that would enable various KDE/QT programs. That is, once installing the "base" then programs such as Amarok, K3b, and K-Office could be downloaded and run. As I understand it, KDE4 is built with this in mind, offering a "kde-runtime" that is basically the base I mentioned
.Are you aware of KDPUP?
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Wed 19 May 2010, 23:07    Post subject:  

Quote:
For these reasons we cheated a bit and used a cut down version of Seamonkey 1.1.18 to provide PuppyBrowser. What we need for 5.1 is to replace this kludge with something much smaller but equally functional. This is how we can save maybe 15MB!


I wondered why it was so good. Cool
Porridge! [Lobsterian swearing] Rolling Eyes

May I suggest we extend the quickpet to include
an experimental listing for 'small browsers'
There are quite a few from Dillo (once upon ancient Puppy days
the browser we used) to an Arachne port

http://www.helgefjell.de/browser.php

I for one would be interested in reducing that 15MB by a factor of 5 to 3MB
or so.
Would be happy to add testing of browsers to my duties of fish eating and advocating Bugman as 'Puppy Official Scapegoat'.

So
1. compile browsers for Lucid perhaps using Ubuntu packages
2. make available in quickpet updates
3. ensure that it is available for Lucid users
4. Get feedback
5. Make choice closer to date

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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 01:05    Post subject:  

Before going off tilting at new windmills, maybe a bugfix release for 5.0 would make a little sense? We already have a 5.0 thread with 76 pages full of reported bugs; do we want to repeat that performance with 5.1? Why report bugs that never get fixed?

I don't know, I just feel like it would be nice to have a good solid release once in a while, rather than exciting new toys that sorta work sometimes. Nobody cares if the release is 120MB rather than 100MB (or whatever). Lots of people care if it works. The users, remember them?

Sorry for being so negative. Maybe I ought to just move on. Anyone know what distros have a reputation for reliability, along with good documentation? FreeBSD maybe?

Maybe it makes sense to bump to 5.1 to revise a very few large issues that just don't work, but if you go that route I'd advise you to keep the list of new stuff very very short, and mostly fix bugs.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5678
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 01:31    Post subject:  

PaulBx1 wrote:
Before going off tilting at new windmills, maybe a bugfix release for 5.0 would make a little sense? We already have a 5.0 thread with 76 pages full of reported bugs; do we want to repeat that performance with 5.1? Why report bugs that never get fixed?

I don't know, I just feel like it would be nice to have a good solid release once in a while, rather than exciting new toys that sorta work sometimes. Nobody cares if the release is 120MB rather than 100MB (or whatever). Lots of people care if it works. The users, remember them?

Sorry for being so negative. Maybe I ought to just move on. Anyone know what distros have a reputation for reliability, along with good documentation? FreeBSD maybe?

Maybe it makes sense to bump to 5.1 to revise a very few large issues that just don't work, but if you go that route I'd advise you to keep the list of new stuff very very short, and mostly fix bugs.


Looks like the actual bug report thread is 6 pages, with most complaints x related.......................................................

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=55385
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drongo


Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 02:14    Post subject: Lightweight browser  

Didn't Mark Ulrich develop a lightweight browser a while back?

I think it might be in one of his Muppy releases.
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 05:04    Post subject:  

James C wrote:
PaulBx1 wrote:
Before going off tilting at new windmills, maybe a bugfix release for 5.0 would make a little sense? We already have a 5.0 thread with 76 pages full of reported bugs; do we want to repeat that performance with 5.1? Why report bugs that never get fixed?

I don't know, I just feel like it would be nice to have a good solid release once in a while, rather than exciting new toys that sorta work sometimes. Nobody cares if the release is 120MB rather than 100MB (or whatever). Lots of people care if it works. The users, remember them?

Sorry for being so negative. Maybe I ought to just move on. Anyone know what distros have a reputation for reliability, along with good documentation? FreeBSD maybe?

Maybe it makes sense to bump to 5.1 to revise a very few large issues that just don't work, but if you go that route I'd advise you to keep the list of new stuff very very short, and mostly fix bugs.


Looks like the actual bug report thread is 6 pages, with most complaints x related.......................................................

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=55385
PaulBx1 made a good point. In addition to the 6 pages bug report, people continued to report in the main thread. So the total of reported bugs is much more then the 6 pages or so.

Also I have the same feeling. A lot of things are reported, which aren't not always taken care of.

Several time it was suggested to use the bug reporting system (ala Bugzilla) I reported several times in there, but unfortunately bugs weren't attributed to someone and thus not solved.

Puppy faces for a long time already to rush to new releases, leaving old issues behind. I agree on this with PaulBx1.

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7782
Location: qld

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 06:01    Post subject:  

Hi everybody Smile

The past and present

This is a landmark release of Puppy. The first to be built from Woof, The Puppy Builder from another distro's binaries. I think the dozen or so core folks who helped with bugfixes, testing and improvements deserve a pat on the back. You all know who you are Wink .

That being said, lets hope that the Official release of Puppy 5, aka Lupu, aka Lucid Puppy drags in a whole bunch more testers and bugfixers.

It feels nice to actually have it installed instead of running live and torching save files! Running very well for me.

The Future

I agree with PaulBx1 and Béèm too. We need to consolidate. However that does not need to come at the cost of new features.

Look at Quickpet for example. It is an app that is about six weeks old.Not, even, 4/12/2010 is the date it was created. I haven't seen a complaint about it in the reviews, bug threads, anywhere. Actually, the review pa_mcclamrock links to in another thread is almost all about Quickpet.

Sure, not all the feedback is positive. There are issues. Together we can fix them.

Xorg for example.Perhaps in the init script we can check to see if the offending intel drivers are loaded before X wants to start and stop X from starting and go directly to Xorgwizard. Now there's an idea, quite doable I think. Anyone up for it?

Nothing wrong at all with testing what browser works with the latest CUPS. I just wonder how much we can chop down a mozilla browser, which is what the latest CUPS seems to want. Perhaps Seamonkey is the wrong way to go, what about an old firefox version.. Firepup maybe? Just trying to think outside the box. Which is what Puppy actually does!

Multimedia. Now that Puppy 5 is here we can compile stuff. Yes indeed. We can compile the latest ffmpeg and xinelib which are essential to good multimedia playback I'm sure some of the multimedia issues are because of this. ffmpeg and xinelib are interdependent. Xinelib needs to be compiled against the ffmpeg we have for the optimum end product. Our friend Patriot taught us that.

Package Management. I was thinking to write something new. But why? Quickpet "just works" doesn't it? PPM "just works" doesn't it? Ah, but you need to update the files for the Ubuntu repos. Ok, an oversight, that should be done for 5.0.1. That way as soon as a user boots his/her new Puppy 5.0.1 cd they can go for any Ubuntu package in their repos, and PPM grabs the dependencies. Why would you want/need apt/Synaptic? I think the PPM is one of Puppy 5's strengths, and perhaps we should heed WhoDo's advice and put in a nice big splash screen in the first Update such that evrery one currently using Puppy 5 get's to know about the Power of the PPM. Cool Of course, any packages offered, compiled in Puppy 5 will be considered for the Official repo.

KDE. Why not? It can be done. Playdayz doesn't have to do it. I don't have to do it. Though we will certainly be there to help. Maybe someone would like to coordinate the KDE effort? Step up, whoever you are! Very Happy

Let us all say "CAN". It CAN be done. Very Happy

Cheers

Mick

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