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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
So ... This is it? Puppy is dead?
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2161
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:12    Post subject:  

I wrote a long oratory posted but then I decided not to post it. Suffice to say that I agree with Jemimah and OzSouth's comment in Barry's blog.

Barry has kindly licensed his work as GPL, if you don't like his vision or decision, please feel free to fork it and create your own distribution (or even puplet, for that matter). Perhaps then you'll understand the kind of effort and PITA*) in creating, managing, and maintaining that distribution of yours. If you're a user, and you don't like what you see here, please feel free to distro-hop and find something better. Nobody's stopping you.

Remember, suggestions, feature request and feedbacks are always welcome, but "demands", "entitlement", and "threats" are not. Don't hold a grudge if your suggestions / feedbacks are not taken.

cheers!

*) If you're lovin' it, then maybe it's not a PITA. The moment you no longer enjoy it - we'll see if it's not PITA.

_________________
Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13.
Contributed Fatdog64 packages thread

Last edited by jamesbond on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:38; edited 1 time in total
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:28    Post subject:  

Aitch wrote:
Iguleder

You seem to have caught the puppyite virus

I recommend running a shower to clear your mind, and if that doesn't work.....
.....ask someone near to give you a tap on the head Wink Very Happy

Please don't contaminate the forum

Aitch Smile


I'm speechless.
Way to insult somebody who has forged ahead for the betterment of puppy as a whole, devoted so much time and energy and effort, and who is not afraid to speak his mind and does it in a civil manner. Somebody who is trying so hard currently to fix the ailments of our beloved puppy.
Everyone who has commented either here in forums or in Barry's blog loves puppy and uses puppy and knows future potential puppians. We know what is wanted, we know what is needed, and we want to help in the ways that we can; to guide the geniuses who CAN code so that they code what the users and potential future uses want and need! I have seen no mean spirited posting by legitimate users, but rather people who are desperate to see puppy live on...but are worried that it won't.
When someone asks for input then spits in their faces because it is not what was expected or wanted, that is discouraging to say the least. When a lot of needed hard work is ignored or thrown away, that is discouraging too. That someone is the one who should be thanking all of these talented contributors, not lobster (no offense intended to lobster, at least somebody has the decency to try to mend the gaping hole.)

I'm disgusted. I suspect this thread was created out of frustration and desperation because the more "appropriate and private" venue's were either ignored or blocked. Anyone who has the common sense and foresight to see what is happening, and speaks up, gets the shaft here.

Such a shame, puppy had spectacular potential, still does. I have been raving about puppy to everyone I deal with in other ventures. I really hope somebody who has the power or influence gets it together and listens to the regular user before it's too late.

I have great respect for all of the devs here, and the people who help with so much knowledge and willingless to devote time to the rest of us who are still learning. Most of the puplets and versions are fantastic, it's hard to choose just one! But please please please do not ignore that there are problems that can't be ignored and need to be fixed or all the good forks and side trips won't matter.

Maybe instead of smothering these people, listen to them. Stop playing puppy politics and get on with what needs doing!
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1700
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:33    Post subject:  

shariebeth wrote:
Stop playing puppy politics and get on with what needs doing!


Wellspoke

Thom
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Rupp

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:38    Post subject:  

n/t
Last edited by Rupp on Mon 05 Apr 2010, 04:13; edited 1 time in total
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2161
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:43    Post subject:  

shariebeth wrote:
Stop playing puppy politics and get on with what needs doing!

With respect - who exactly needs to do "what needs doing"?

cheers!

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Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13.
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:53    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
shariebeth wrote:
Stop playing puppy politics and get on with what needs doing!

With respect - who exactly needs to do "what needs doing"?

cheers!

That's a very good question and the fact you needed to ask that speaks volumes.
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Rupp

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 13:00    Post subject:  

n/t
Last edited by Rupp on Mon 05 Apr 2010, 03:50; edited 1 time in total
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 13:54    Post subject:  

Puppy is DEAD..........................odd, seems to be working just fine here Smile
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FlyingRedGoat

Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 14:28    Post subject:  

Barry is not dead. I wish people would stop behaving as if he were.

Puppy will not die. There are too many here who will forge on. We may just have personal versions, but it will live on.

K

_________________
Lobster wrote:
Quote:
Read this: Fear Not Root, and tell us what you think.


I thought reading this was preferable to running around like a headless penguin
exclaiming, 'Beware the root'. Rolling Eyes

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 14:48    Post subject:  

shariebeth wrote:
to guide the geniuses who CAN code so that they code what the users and potential future uses want and need!


This is the attitude that causes the problem. The is what is meant by "entitlement" and "welfare mentality." "Geniuses" do not exist for the purpose of serving the users. If we did, we would ask for money.

If a coder asks for user input, it's because he or she thinks the interaction is fun, and educational. But the ultimate reason for coding is because the euphoria of problem solving is addictive. And we seek more and harder problems, like an addict desperate for a fix.

I can only speak for myself, but I will do that, in hopes that at least a few other people will read and understand.

Programming is a very personal search for self actualization, and in a way, an almost religious experience. I am always reaching for new planes of understanding, honing my skills, like a Jedi in training.

And so when users somehow get the idea that any of it is "about them," it's almost a laughable misunderstanding. It's such a wonderful feeling when I discover that other people like and use my work - but even if everybody hated it, I would continue to do the work in private because I need it to maintain my own mental health.

The benefit comes from being able to bring forth my own vision into existence. Few people can tell me what this vision is better than me, but I often invite dialog with the purpose of generating new ideas, because I like nothing better than new ideas. I collect ideas in my mind like a numismatist collects coins, cherishing them, polishing them, sometimes trading them in for new ones.

To sum it up, and cut it short: no open source developer has any obligation to users whatsoever. Suggesting otherwise is extremely harmful.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 14:52    Post subject:  

Quite often...
When a person want's to get their own way...
They tell everyone...
"If you don't do this thing there will be a terrible disaster!"
And proceed to "lay it on thick".

Hmmm...
Now where have I seen that before? Confused

@jemimah
I remember my statistics teacher saying something like that.
I said to him:
"But surely, anyone to does something, must have in mind that at some point in the future there will be some USE for what he does!"
And he said:
"No, the thing is, and should be, done for its own sake."

Then and now, I still find it hard to agree with that.

Last edited by Sylvander on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 15:01; edited 1 time in total
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10753
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 14:55    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:

There already exists a very modular linux called TinyCore. Unfortunately, the initial learning curve is too steep for me. I look at their website, install their 10MB image, and I'm bored with it before I even figure out what I'm supposed to do.


Who know's if a couple of us get tired of things like being locked out of a developers blog, maybe a move to tiny-core wouldn't be all that bad, not that I want to but its an option, I could hack that 10MB release and make it say 60 mb or less with just about everything puppy has in it. I just had a look at the inners of the tinycore.gz, wouldn't be all that hard to add gtk2,rox,jwm or icewm,Firefox or seamonkey. I don't know I went to bed feeling like crap because of Barry and his blog, got up and still feel like crap when I read that red text he added to the top of the blog.
well back to 4.3.2
ttuuxxx

_________________
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3444
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 15:07    Post subject:  

That's how the ripples in the pond spread out.

A couple of people said things that made Barry feel like crap...
So he protected himself by ending any responses...
And that passed the feeling along.
LIKE:
The King elbows the Queen...
And the Queen slaps her maid...
And the maid slaps her boyfriend...
And he hits his little brother...
And the little brother kicks his dog...
And the dog bites the King...
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 15:08    Post subject:  

Jemimah, Ttuuxxx, please stick around. You both do really good stuff that I TRUST!
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Root forever!
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 15:19    Post subject:  

@jemimah:
Where has anybody said they think you or any of the other talented devs owe them anything? I know I certainly didn't. I am grateful for puppy and all of the work you and everyone has chosen voluntarily to do for it! Nor would I ever presume to assume you do it for me, you do it for the love of it. I know that. I also know that puppeee and other distros fill a need. Whether it be the developer's personal need or a need the community at large has, it's done for a reason. I also would think your thread has 99 pages because you care what works for other people and want to make a damn good distro that people will actually use.

I am talking about two things here.
One:. Puppy as a core distro, which everything else has been based from, including your puppeee (which I think is fantastic), has some problems, not just in the actual distro itself, but in how the whole thing is run. If puppy wants to move forward, it needs 4 things:
1. An organized documentation system.
2. A stable base puppy version, regularly updated for bugs and upgrades needed to keep up with linux at large.
3. A cutting edge division where everyone can work on their own derivatives and move puppy forward with everyone else.
4. A retro division to make sure puppy works for the people it was originally intended to work for: the old and less-than-optimal pc's and laptops that need special distros.

Two: How people have been treated who have devoted a lot of time and energy and effort into puppy. When opinions are asked for and projects are asked for, both of talented experienced devs and the "average user", it seems that there is interest in knowing what the "community" is thinking and wants. You cannot fault the common user and talented dev for thinking their opinions and work matter if it was asked for in the first place. (I also take great umbrage to being asked for an opinion or feedback then told I have entitlement and welfare mentality for offering it. I find that rather rude and arrogant.)

I will repeat, in case you missed it, do not assume people think you owe them anything. Nobody said that that I have seen, and I definitely do not think that. Please read carefully before jumping to offended conclusions.
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