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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
4.4 Pre Alpha test run
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 776
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Fri 19 Mar 2010, 23:01    Post subject: RUNZ vs. SFSes -- Advantages, Disadvantages
Subject description: How do they compare?
 

@ sjurics

I took a quick look at the site you referenced. Nothing more. But my overall impression was that AFTER installing something referred to as 'the framework' and installing some other things, Runz would enable an OS (now limited to 2) to run a self-contained application in the runz format. If you know more about it, how is that different from an SFS containing all required dependencies? What advantages over an SFS? What disadavantages beyond those noted above, and, of course, the time and effort devs would have to undertake to get it to work in Puppy?

mikesLr
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flugwelpe


Joined: 15 May 2009
Posts: 29
Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Mon 29 Mar 2010, 06:02    Post subject:  4.4 great! but utf-8 support?  

Checked out the pre alpha with virtual box right now. I really like what I see Smile

Didn't find a way to change to UTF-8 though (UTF-8 is the only way to go for me, as my files need to be compatible with different locations). Is there some GUI for that?

I'm sure 4.4 will be a great puppy!
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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Mon 29 Mar 2010, 20:47    Post subject: Browser wars and Choicepup functionality  

I am a bit bemused about the extensive discussion on browsers. This version has Choicepup functionality. Surely this changes the whole philosophy of organisation of the distro. There is absolutely no need for the pup-440.sfs to contain ANY browser, or indeed anything more than a bare skeletal core to get you to a simple GUI to start selecting/loading the sfs files you need. In principle people can then pick and choose between browsers, menu layouts, or anything else. This seems to be the logical way to go, as it avoids the problem of unused software being stuck in the pup-440.sfs file, which is a memory killer if you are not using a full installations.

The main difficulty with this approach seems to me to be the careful thought required to ensure that the various dependencies are not excessively duplicated over sfs files and that the whole distro doesn't get splintered into dozens of sfs files. Perhaps two main sfs files could be considered, one leaning the Seamonkey, standard Puppy look and feel direction, the other the more Stardusty way. Alternatives to these two main sfs files could be developed as another way to do puplet development.

It would also be a great thing if the amount of information on the download sites about each file could be a little less terse. This will be more important if more than one file is needed to set up a working puppy.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 01 Apr 2010, 19:06    Post subject:  

Hey...a month without having to update anything and it's all working; nice for a "pre-alpha" package Smile
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5710
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue 06 Apr 2010, 01:42    Post subject:  

I'm still running the 4.4 pre-alpha some almost daily (testing a bunch of releases at the moment) and its still a pretty solid base. Can we expect an updated release?

This thread has slowed down dramatically but some of us are still testing..... Smile
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7794
Location: qld

PostPosted: Tue 06 Apr 2010, 06:31    Post subject:  

ok, techno

great stuff here. I'm sure ttuuxxx will be releasing 432 in the next couple of weeks. 4.4 would be great getting released almost directly after, then a couple of weeks later 5.

Hows your time? I know you don't have much of it.

Cheers

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Tue 06 Apr 2010, 10:55    Post subject:  

On ttuux's suggestion, I attempted to upgrade the gtk version. Barry's version had some window display issues in abiword and a couple others that weren't fixed by recompiling 2.18.9 (twice to eliminate the insert key bug in mozilla products) or the recently released 2.20.0 either. Maybe 2.16 will be ok but I need to compile it again for the insert key bug, and I'm not sure one major version is even worth the trouble, since it seems most software is at least currently only requiring gtk 2.14 (with the exception of *gnome* which I will leave to whoever takes up the gnome puplet).

For whatever reason abiword-2.8 does not get external browser support if compiled on gtk 2.14 or later even with env BROWSER set and symlinks for firefox, so I have been compiling it in 4.2.1 which has gtk 2.12 (so different code gets used during the build).

Maybe I am being too picky - the display issues only occur with a blank document and go away once you scroll down and back up.

I also did a pretty exhaustive search for libraries that were only used by one program or two and determined if those libraries were needed or not and recompiled either without unnecessary support or using the static lib. This is mostly to make room for some more "bolt-on" bug fixes more drivers on the zdrv (with preference toward connectivity related drivers) which can be cutdown after installation using the zdrv cutter (testing).

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FlyingRedGoat

Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu 08 Apr 2010, 14:08    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
Maybe I am being too picky - the display issues only occur with a blank document and go away once you scroll down and back up.


Somehow I doubt if you are being too picky. The way to find out is to leave it like that for the next release and see who objects. It's not a final release, so it won't matter that the task is not entirely complete.

K

PS nice to see you're back. Smile

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OldYogi

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:32    Post subject:  

Nicely done -- and I'm happy to report the new Pwireless2 solved my problem with getting DNS in 4.31. This version also for the first time finds my Broadcom card. Thanks.

Issues? links to the icon images break the first time I access them. and SFS linker seems not to work properly. At least I've been unable to get it to work, running off of a USB stick. A website with sound seemed to freeze Seamonkey.

But regardless, I'm running this full time, and delighted.
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OldYogi

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu 15 Apr 2010, 11:46    Post subject:  

I spoke perhaps too soon. I'm running 4.31-2 off of a USB stick. I've loaded Opera from TinyCore, and used sfs_linker to load it, along with what I believe are the necessary dependencies. Opera loads fine, but the menu item for Mail and Chat Accounts is grayed out, so I can't even open a mail account. One time mail did manage to start, but the next time it failed again. And it does this on two different laptops.

I've not found any mention anywhere of a comparable problem. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.
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OldYogi

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu 15 Apr 2010, 11:46    Post subject:  

I spoke perhaps too soon. I'm running 4.31-2 off of a USB stick. I've loaded Opera from TinyCore, and used sfs_linker to load it, along with what I believe are the necessary dependencies. Opera loads fine, but the menu item for Mail and Chat Accounts is grayed out, so I can't even open a mail account. One time mail did manage to start, but the next time it failed again. And it does this on two different laptops.

However, this happens only when I start Opera from the Program menu, where it appears under System. If I start Opera in rxvt, the Mail Menu appears.

I've not found any mention anywhere of a comparable problem. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Thu 15 Apr 2010, 19:09    Post subject:  

here are the entries in the tc version of opera - looks like the menu entry has -nomail -nolirc

<JWM>
<Program label="Opera (browser-only)">/usr/local/bin/opera -nomail -nolirc</Program>
<Program label="Opera (full)">/usr/local/bin/opera</Program>
</JWM>

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OldYogi

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri 16 Apr 2010, 05:43    Post subject:  

Technosaurus,

thanks. When I load the Opera10.tcz only one menu entry is created in Puppy -- strangely located in Programs/System... This code in the tce.menu explains why, running from that menu entry I get no mail, but why mail is available when I run Opera from rxvt. But shouldn't the tce.menu code be creating two menu entries -- one for browser only, and one for Opera full?

Can I edit that tce.menu file, and save the edit? It would be easy to comment out the first line, so that the default menu command were Opera (full). Or would it be possible to edit the menu entry in Puppy after it is installed?
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