I got wacked real good x 3 (SOLVED)

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prehistoric
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Literary reference

#81 Post by prehistoric »

@Sylvander,

OT: is often used in some discussion forums as an abbreviation for Off-Topic.

I was indirectly referring to the novel by Sir Walter Scott, not the football club. Word plays are one of my vices.

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prehistoric
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BIOS number

#82 Post by prehistoric »

I'm having some trouble with that BIOS code:

Code: Select all

03/28/2001-8363A-686B6A6LMD4FC-00
Both Aopen and DFI now seem to go out of their way to pretend they never made anything that is not currently for sale. The format of that code is a little unusual, which makes it possible to place it in a series.

The closest match I have at the moment is in a series of Tyan boards.

Code: Select all

02/05/2001-8363A-686B-6A6LMT5BC-00   	 TRINITY KT-A
I'm sure this is a Socket A mainboard using the VIA KT-133A chipset with the 686B southbridge. One problem is that Tyan doesn't use the AK-75A designation. Also, none of the Tyan BIOS dates match the one on the POST screen. This takes us back to Aopen or DFI. I'm guessing the D after the LM has something to do with DFI.

@Aitch,

Can you find any closer match, or a sneaky link to an archive of DFI or Aopen BIOS codes?

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Aitch
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#83 Post by Aitch »

prehistoric
No - I hit the same wall - you look to have got further than me....but I only spent 1/2hr or so....other things to do, ....

slightly aside/
....as I was trying to help Don in Thailand, with a replacement processor, which I've managed to source, just having difficulty getting it there for a reasonable price, to make it worthwhile

back on topic
- Jerry, this CD problem is looking [to me] increasing like either a misaligned read head, requiring a replacement CD unit complete, or old firmware in need of update retaining the CD player
We'd need the manufacturer and model code to get an update firmware, and you'd probably need to be running some form of windoze.... :(

Aitch :)

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prehistoric
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Another boot method

#84 Post by prehistoric »

@Jerry,

If you now have that external CD drive, you are in a position to sidestep potential problems with that internal drive. By burning a CD on the good machine, then transferring the USB CD drive to the suspect machine, it may be possible to read the CD on the same device that wrote it.

Unless you can get the BIOS set up to boot from an external USB CD drive, you will have to use a boot floppy as an intermediate step, to get the super multi-boot loader to start the process.

Once you regain the ability to boot, you can use Puppy to mount that file system and recover irreplaceable files from the suspect machine, (if you haven't already done that with DSLinux.) After that, the Avira antivirus rescue system already described might be a good bet. If it works, great, if not, it doesn't cost anything. (There are slicker tools available, for a price. If I were a service technician making $50 a crack on calls I might have the Avast! Bootable Antivirus Recovery Tool, for a mere $299/year. People who haven't lost the ability to boot Windows often swear by Spyware Dr., though I have little experience with it.)

If you need to reflash the BIOS, you may be able to do that directly from the BIOS option for awardflash, using a BIOS binary file on the floppy, (assuming we can find that file.) If not, there is an option on that System Rescue CD I mentioned earlier to boot freedos from a floppy image on the CD. Using this with the correct version of awardflash, downloaded off the Internet, and the correct binary file, will allow you to reflash the BIOS even if the flash code in the current BIOS is corrupted.

While a specialized tool for recovering the ability to boot from the hard drive may be the best way to go, there is another option. When Windows XP installs, it puts an NT bootloader in the system partition. When you install GRUB from Puppy, it scans the device for other bootable systems. When it finds a Windows partition, it puts an entry for booting that via the chainloader in the GRUB menu.lst file. If the MBR alone is clobbered, installing GRUB to the MBR will then allow you to boot Windows via GRUB.

This is a bit tricky, and I will defer to Sylvander's greater experience with Windows systems.

@Aitch,

Jerry has said he has other CD drives which were working when removed. He has also said he will get the external CD-burner from his son. Either way he can get around a flaky drive, if that is the problem.

I understand about competing activities, I also have a life away from the computer, but will leave that real-life soap opera out of discussion. Here's a link to a classic recent news story to show what we are up against.

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#85 Post by Aitch »

:lol: :lol: Brilliant! thanks...

Aitch :)

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obxjerry
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#86 Post by obxjerry »

I'm replying after a quick read through of the posts written. Bad habits die hard. Rest assured I do reread. You folks have been busy and I do appreciate your efforts.

Prehistoric and others, thanks for the say so to swap out that CD drive. Thats an itch I've been wanting to scratch for a loooong time. Puppy 431 booted first try. It does have to have the SBM floppy to boot. I didn't try any other CDs so, I may have used all the good luck I have left in my lifetime. The drive is CD read only and I replaced it with the same so it's nothing but a step forward. My son is the manager of the music department at a book store so I'm sure he got the good out of the old drive playing music while at the computer.

My son did bring the CD burner, USB interface. Unfortunately he also brought back the computer I brought to replace his. The sound has gone away and audio is important to him. It is running 2 distros of Linux so he's clueless. I have that to address today. I mention this only to let you know what I'm doing, NOT a back door request for help. I may have this solved before you write.

I have perhaps a small clue, or mislead, as to the manufacturer of the motherboard. The CD drive I took out is an AOpen. Is there anywhere on the motherboard I might find an identifier? To be honest I haven't looked that hard.

It just occurred to me I have another observation that may be worth a mention. When I started the computer after swapping CD drives it didn't power up. I shut down, unplugged from the wall and checked connections. All seemed in order. When I started up the second time the drive powered up and was detected. There is some function there. It renamed the drive in BIOS. I didn't take it for granted that would happen.

Next step in the process for me is getting the external CD burner functioning and burn the EBCD and the floppy.

Thank you all very much,
Take care

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obxjerry
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#87 Post by obxjerry »

I know you all have taken me as a pup to raise. Rest assured that sometimes even a blind pig finds a truffle.

Working the audio problem on my son's replacement computer; I went through the settings on both OS, booted up a third Linux OS live-CD and un-installed and reinstalled drivers. There was no doubt the sound card was there. All three OS saw it and so did I when I opened the case. I gave up last night and today worked on it just a short time before swapping the sick computer back in with the replaced CD drive.

When I swapped the computers again I noticed the orange jack from the speakers should not (logically) plug into the orange plug. That would be the microphone plug. The speaker plug is green. :roll: :lol:

I have looked over the motherboard on the sick computer. I haven't found a name yet. Is there a chance it would be on the side I can't see. I would think logically it would be on the side that can be seen but we see where my logic takes me. I may have the technology to take a picture and send it somewhere if that would help.

Prehistoric, concerning the laptop, I am hesitant to go the usb flashdrive route for two reasons. First the flashdrive sticks out like a sore thumb on a laptop. Is that why they call it a thumb drive? Second I have a real problem with XP taking up x number of gigabytes and being less useful, all things considered, than Puppy in 500mb. The XP is supposed to be a fresh install but I can find things the previous owner probably thought were gone. I think there's lots I can prune away, I just haven't done it yet.

I have other things to do before I get back to the CD burner and EBCD.

Take care all

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prehistoric
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manufacturer ID

#88 Post by prehistoric »

@Jerry,

The vital ID is the one for the BIOS code itself. The brand name on the CD drive in the same box may not even come from the same country.

When you get a machine from a large company, like HP, or even IBM, those drives and boards may have been made by companies you never heard of. Aopen is a brand name for suppliers, but doesn't tell you which factory a part came from. DFI is a mainboard vendor, probably tied to the company owning the factory that made this board. (Though this one is very similar to a Tyan board. I'm not even sure there is always a physical difference in boards manufactured for different companies.) The changes in relationships between Chinese suppliers are more complex than I can follow.

The major part of that BIOS, after the code from Award and AMD, came from VIA, which made several important chips on the mainboard. Even so, there may be tiny differences in configuration between different manufacturers. Sometimes they substitute parts, and make minor code changes, just because they can get a better price from some supplier. To check that BIOS we need an exact match, unless we are absolutely sure we can flash a good later version of the correct BIOS.

I have made a mistake in flashing a BIOS in the past, and I am just now about to swap that board with another which is aging badly, (bad capacitors,) by moving the working Flash ROM from the aging board to replace the one I messed up. From the time I made the mistake, years ago, until now, this is the first use I've had for that otherwise-new board.

Even in the worst case, if you have to go on booting from a floppy, you can use the machine now. You have eliminated one possible source of problems. Once the OS loads, all modern systems -- both Windows and Linux -- stop using the BIOS, and use their own code. There may be problems because of settings copied from the BIOS, but these are in RAM, and can be modified.

Your next tasks are retrieving valuable personal data, then cleaning and restoring the system on the hard drive. When you run an anti-virus scan, I'll be interested in what it turns up.

We'll talk about other machines when you get to them.

Added: Concerning the audio problem, does your son have trouble telling the difference between red and green traffic lights?

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#89 Post by obxjerry »

It wasn't my son's mistake. I have no idea what the original problem was. He said something about a irregular shutdown and the audio didn't work after. He brought the tower over and I swapped it in and made the bad connection. Color coding anything with a wire just comes natural to me.

The CD burner is taking more time than it should. I'm not off in the weeds. I'm just finding a way. Fortunately I have ways to chose from.

After supper I'll check that BIOS number again. Surely you can see why we need to double check my work. :lol:

Take care

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obxjerry
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#90 Post by obxjerry »

Prehistoric and any others working on the BIOS number, I am so sorry. I left out a hyphen. The number is;

03/28/2001-8363A-686B-6A6LMD4FC-00 not as I said

03/28/2001-8363A-686B6A6LMD4FC-00 so the number you found

02/05/2001-8363A-686B-6A6LMT5BC-00 TRINITY KT-A

is in the same format as the correct number. My number has nothing after the last 2 zeros. I hope I haven't caused too much wasted work.

Sorry

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prehistoric
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BIOS number

#91 Post by prehistoric »

Jerry,

Not a problem. I figured that out on my own. The last part was a descriptive term added on the web page, not part of the code.

Now, I just need to think of some way to get a lead on the corresponding binary file, or a checksum we can test.

You don't have to wait on me. With the ability to boot, even if it doesn't always work, you can go ahead with removing the infection.

out_fisherman
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Wow - I need a Re-load, or something !!!

#92 Post by out_fisherman »

Between obxjerry's posts (3 bad computers) and
'prehistoric' posts describing HIS failures, I no longer know
what to think. I have gone back to the start of this thread,
several times, and still get lost before I get to the end. IMHO -
too many machines involved, mixing symptoms of one
machine with another, and then 'prehistoric' injects his failure
mode info too....NOT to sound condescending, however....I can
appreciate your troubles....and in my own ignorance maybe I can't
follow all the twists. Somehow, this is sounding more and more
like a COMBINATION of hardware/software trouble. Having worked
with/fixed PCs for over 15 yrs, I have never seen such a mess....
check with Guiness.....you might have a shot!
Hope I haven't Pi$$ed anyone off, but I am really lost trying
to follow all this....I want to help....but geez....don't know where
we are now....Oh but wait.....obxjerry - you said Puppy 431 boots
fine.....should rule out any hardware issues like memory...IMHO.

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prehistoric
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mess + BIOS file

#93 Post by prehistoric »

@out_fisherman,

Yep, this is a mess, but I've been through some really nasty ones. Compared with bringing up a new bit-slice processor design, while debugging microcode, this isn't frightening. Compared with connecting diodes to bus bars run at plate voltage in Whirlwind I, which a friend of mine remembers, this is safe, in the sense that it can't kill you.

Part of the problem is that old machines do accumulate problems, even if they keep (sort of) working. Then you get some deliberately malicious stuff which wipes out the things you depend on and exposes pre-existing trouble, in addition to whatever was there to begin with. Add in miscommunication, and lack of experience, and it can seem impossible.

I've taught troubleshooting, in a different context. There is a reason most material assumes only a single fault in an otherwise good system: dealing with multiple independent faults is just too damn hard for most of us. Also, disregarding falsified hypotheses is easier said than done. That probably caused you trouble in going over the topic.

One reason I have stayed with this is curiousity about how much was deliberately caused, and by what. From a commercial standpoint it would be cheaper and easier to build a machine around a new motherboard. Here's one source for boards which can use that processor and memory. Maybe, I relish the challenge (to quote a US President many want to forget.)

Booting Puppy via the boot floppy rules out many hardware issues. We still can't tell if the BIOS has been corrupted.

@jerry,

After checking around some places that keep old BIOS binaries, I have failed to find the exact version shown on that POST screen. This one may have left the factory between documented releases. This means we can't check your BIOS data before we flash. If you can boot now, and use the machine, you have to weigh the risk the flash may force you to replace that board. I am all but certain the BIOS for the AK75-EC is correct, and updated to fix bugs that were in yours, all but the last couple of letters match, and those probably reflect bug fixes. I can't promise this will work. If it isn't necessary, why risk it?

If you do decide to flash, here is the binary, and DOS flash utility, which I downloaded. Here is a link to instructions.
Attachments
dfi_ak75-ec_25846.zip
Award BIOS binary and DOS flash utility for AK75-EC
(154.97 KiB) Downloaded 936 times

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Aitch
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#94 Post by Aitch »

Well, actually, there is a way to check before flashing, but it may depend on the functioning of the PC, as you need a running windoze setup [even 95/98 will do, but 2k/xp also]

see award biosagentplus, here

http://biosagentplus.com/?ref=1


My gut feeling would be to de-infect the hard drive/OS before worrying about the bios, as there may be other factors, and as prehistoric points out, it is possible to make a board unusable by flashing with the wrong code

not intending to undermine you, prehistoric..... :)

Jerry, can you clarify the functional state of the PC after changing the CD - did you re-try the puppy/other bootable CDs, and was there a difference to before the change?

Just elimination of problems, is all


out_fisherman,

sorry, but I'd have thought you would notice...there's already too many fish in this bowl :wink:

Aitch :)

out_fisherman
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Sorry Aitch -

#95 Post by out_fisherman »

Aitch -

Never meant to be a pain - joined the thread on pg 2, and after
that was curious as to what this was. As an OLD hardware & software guy,
sometimes I am just curious. Crap like this used to keep me up at night....
since 1978. Once I found out what the problem was, I slept well.
I have always been the curious type...but I'll go away now....

Prehistoric - your wisdom looks sound....I'll follow the thread to see
how it all goes....

obxjerry - God Bless and good luck......may Linux be your future...
TM

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Aitch
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#96 Post by Aitch »

sorry fisherman, didn't intend to appear rude

Aitch :)

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prehistoric
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absurdly simple possibility

#97 Post by prehistoric »

out_fisherman caused me to rethink some of the human and computer aspects of this mess. I woke up with the intention of eliminating one possibility.

@jerry,

This one is so simple and obvious, particularly to those with experience, that you may feel insulted that I ask. I apologize in advance, but it is necessary to clear up a doubt.

You have told us, more than once, that removing the battery did not change the behavior after the battery was replaced. Now, the critical question: do you know the battery is good?

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#98 Post by obxjerry »

Like moths to a flame we are being drawn into a black hole. I'm still on this because I'm having fun. There is no doubt effort outweighs potential gain here.

I am a huge stumbling block here. The only CMOS battery I've replaced gave me a error code instead of booting. The only check I could think of for the CMOS battery is measuring voltage. I have 2.4 volts and the battery says 3.0. I'll have to research my next step here.

The computer now boots Puppy without fail. As a noob to Puppy I don't know how to use that tool in my arsenal. More research for me.

The CD writer can't see the blank CD. From what I've seen online it's a common problem. Hopefully by trail and error I'll get that working.

As far as a way forward here, I suggest I continue independently. Due to lack of knowledge and time I am going to move at a comparative snail's pace. I am the type that will never say I can't do something, just that I haven't learned that yet. There is enough here already written to keep me busy/entertained for quite a while and likely come to a solution.

You folks are heroes, the few that run to danger when most run away. The help you've given means more to me than you know.

Take care,
Jerry

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prehistoric
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battery dead

#99 Post by prehistoric »

@jerry,

Replace battery. This will at least allow the computer to hold nvram (CMOS) memory.

Even a battery which shows 3.0 volts with no load may be bad. One which shows 2.4 volts is far gone.

This is one of the elementary tricks of the trade which makes technicians wish they kept an idiot child around to ask questions they forgot. :wink:

You can use a computer with a dead battery, if you don't have a good one handy, but you have to reset parameters to factory settings on every power up.

Good luck with your further adventures. If you don't want to make a fool of yourself in public, you can send me a PM about a problem.

Cheers,

prehistoric

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efiguy
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I got wacked real good x 3

#100 Post by efiguy »

Hi Group,

I would like to offer these files for those that are learning Puppy Linux and still using windows.

Even after 25 years of vindos, it is still all too easy to kill a windows installation via experimentation, and I have damaged my multidude of Puppy installations also several times and had to reload and start over because of file and Xorg editing <;) (and not figuring out how to open the 2fs save file or an sfs file to correct the problem).
(At least you don't have to call Barry, etal for Authorization :0)

But for Windows, these might help,

Regards,
Jay
Attachments
HelpInfoLinks.zip
Tools and Info
(3.3 KiB) Downloaded 696 times
AboutRecoveryConsole.zip
Part of a XP install disk
(3.93 KiB) Downloaded 564 times

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