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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
pUPnGO - 6Mb ISO - Basic Building Block Puplet
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sun 07 Feb 2010, 10:45    Post subject:  

sinc wrote:
should i be trying to build it from 412, does that matter?

Hi sinc
YES! It is based on P412 - I have not tested any other versions with the build script. Sorry for all the trouble you have - It should be straight forward - with the speed of light.... Shocked
Kim
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Keef


Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 622
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Sun 07 Feb 2010, 11:34    Post subject:  

I can confirm that the build script works on 412 for me. It throws up the "cannot stat /etc/X11R7/bin/jwm." error, but the iso is still built correctly.
The problem with 431 is the different squashfs version - pupngo is unable to load the zdrv which contains the X stuff.
One observation though - the shutdown screen (save to file etc) does not function. Works ok in the 'vanilla' pupngo though.
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sun 07 Feb 2010, 12:13    Post subject:  

Keef wrote:
I can confirm that the build script works on 412..

One observation though - the shutdown screen (save to file etc) does not function. Works ok in the 'vanilla' pupngo though.

Thank you Keef for confirming it works - I was beginning to have my doubts even though it build again and again here...

The script to not create an optimized vesa/jwm situation - quiting vesa is "unclean" - and I think thats why the save script fails - something is running in the background...but I have not been able to fix the shutdown (exit to prompt). If someone could give a solution...Please!

Also I have found that if you formate a partition and use the save script - pupngo do not load everything thats in the zdrv afterwards - thats a pity. If you say no to copy pup_412.sfs to drive when saving - it will still be copied when booting again. Guess thats original Puppy 412 behavior. First boot after creating personal save file is ok - at this boot pupngo copies pup_412.sfs to the partition - but zdrv-content still works. At second boot (meaning pup_412.sfs is on the partition) zdrv-content are not loaded.

So the principle having additional programs and stuff in the zdrv works when booting from a CD - but not after a save to disk. Guess it would demand a hack of init in initrd.

Working on a fix for some of it...
Kim
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Keef


Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 622
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Mon 08 Feb 2010, 16:58    Post subject:  

@goingnuts
I lack the knowledge to help with the JWM issue, but maybe this link will help. Seems to refer to a similar problem, but its all a bit over my head.
See the post by Clarf (dated Dec 02 09, about 3/4 down the page)
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Tue 09 Feb 2010, 15:27    Post subject:  

Your hint was good Keef! Nailed it down to jwm exit not working as expected. At start of Xvesa and jwm errors must be redirected to a tempfile (tmp/xerrs.log) and afterwards to /dev/null. In jwm "exit to prompt" using normal menu program instead of jwm shutdown gives "clean" exit to prompt. And afterwards poweroff and save is working again.

A new build of the pUPnGO have been uploaded - this time with a renamed pup_412.sfs (now named pup_412pupngo.sfs) to avoid conflict with any savefiles of normal P412 on your HD. This is meant as a substitute for the Xvesa_jwm-build script. Includes:
Xvesa, jwm, lynx and "lobotomised" versions of grubconfig and bootmanager running in dialog only. I have managed to strip fonts down to 20K.

Still the purpose is to work on the basic non-GUI pUPnGO but maybe Xvesa/jwm should be part of the basic building block?

The new upload is 8Mb and not using the zdrv-approach, still boots in 16 Mb ram in vmware but: do not expect a beauty-box - but it still is a tiny fellow...
Overview:
Kernel (original) 1,6Mb
initrd.gz (original) 1,3Mb
pup_412pUPnGO.sfs 4,9Mb
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 09 Feb 2010, 16:03    Post subject:  

goingnuts wrote:

Still the purpose is to work on the basic non-GUI pUPnGO but maybe Xvesa/jwm should be part of the basic building block?

I'm sure a lot of users would find it really helpful to have a basic Xvesa/jwm display, They could build a real UltraLite puppy with it, by adding gtk1.2, rox gtk1, SeamonkeyGtk1 or Dillo, the best background setter, came from 2 series that is gtk1.2 and probably some sort of older gtkdialog to get the scripts going. But that would kind of take the focus away from what your trying to achieve here with a non-GUI version. Almost like you might have to split the project into 2 different areas, GUI vs NonGUI. non gui is great for the more the experienced user, but a GUI version would get a lot of new experimental users a tool to learn with. I personally would favor the basic GUI, cmd is ok, but can be a bit frustrating. I don't know its your excellent groundbreaking project you decide, maybe offer 2 versions.
ttuuxxx

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile

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sinc


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Tampa, FL USA

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb 2010, 09:01    Post subject:  

@Kim: thanks for your direction. I finally got around to trying the OLD script in 412 and it did work. Only issue was the save file as mentioned before. I now see you have uploaded a new version and put a basic .iso file on your website. I appreciate it I am going to play around with it and see what kind of stuff I can do with it with the millions of programs ttuuxxx has compiled. should be fun... thanks again.
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clarf


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 612
Location: The old Lone Wolf

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb 2010, 13:37    Post subject:  

Hi goingnuts,

This Puplet has some interesting points.

I had been follow this thread and found some clear objectives: a basic building block for stand alone applications or embedded systems. But I still has many questions.

What are the secondary objectives?.

What Server applications will be added?.

I think some basic applications that should be included: SSH Server/client, hiawatha or apache webserver, SFTP Server, MySQL DB Server, etc.

As any Server (or embed system) some security settings should be configured and strong Firewall policies applied, did you included some special settings or plan to include in a near future?

Excuse me if I ask too much,

clarf
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb 2010, 15:08    Post subject:  

Hi Clarf, hmmm feels strange talking to you in another thread,lol lol
I think he's just giving us a base setup, one with no-gui and one with a real basic GUI (maybe).
What you've mentioned is added stuff that you'll probably have to add for your own project. etc.
From what I get from it is that he's proving a minimum base and its up to the user to go from there. Which is good, not everybody wants games, movie players, webservers etc.
But not to worry I have something brewing Wink maybe for this project and another one. but its top-secret Smile lol so don't tell anyone, lol (thinks to himself, kind of a stupid sentence since he just posted the statement in forum, lol)
have fun

ps I think the only thing goingnuts hasn't provided is a cutdown devx, if a regular 412 devx would be used, I'm pretty sure it would fail horribly. There should be a basic devx, that users would have to add deps as they build a system, kind of like how I updated the devx for 214x as we added a newer backend, etc. Should really be a basic gcc, with xvesa drivers, make, autoreconf, automake, libtool, aclocal etc
ttuuxxx

ttuuxxx

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb 2010, 16:27    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx: You are right: It is the basis I am trying to make - users have to build whatever please them on top of that. GUI/non-GUI - I hope to find a non-conflicting solution where the basic is non-GUI and the GUI is another "building block"...
Definitely some applications would need a graphic display.
Concerning the devx - in my mind it is not needed as you build from the running host and therefore can benefit and use the normal devx to create the stuff you want in pUPnGO there and add it afterwards. I don't think pUPnGO it self should be a building platform/distro. But I would like to get a PET-installer inside...

sinc: Good the OLD script came alive at your place too - I find it amazing that building a new pUPnGO takes 6 sec. here - hopefully you feel inspired to dig into the build script as well...

clarf: ttuuxxx explained it better than I could. I try to make the basis to be build upon and as small as possible. The server build script is just an example of the principle. You should more or less be able to build what-ever you want: server, answering machine, music-player, tv-recorder, single game distro, radio, web browser, sniffers, crackers, surveillance-system, remote-control - you name it.
Even Puppy Linux 412 can be made - exact copy. Smile
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tubby

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Wed 10 Feb 2010, 17:36    Post subject:  

goingnuts
This is absolutely brilliant, i have already played around with it and am currently sorting out the missing libraries i need to allow Firefox to run properly in it, also the libraries for a Rox filer i compiled. Both are accessible from terminal but are still missing some shared libraries.
I have not had so much fun since i discovered Puppy, thanks for your contribution to the forum and its members.
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clarf


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 612
Location: The old Lone Wolf

PostPosted: Thu 11 Feb 2010, 00:36    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx:

you are right it feels weird, too much time spent in 214X... Smile Wonder how many projects are you working on.

goingnuts:

It´s Puppy in its minimum expression. Smile

But as another Puppy derivative it should come with some standard Puppy command line utilities like dir2pet, dir2sfs, etc. There´s a latent need to add the tools to adjust pUPnGO to Puppy users needs and also provide the basic building tools for the embed system. I read you are working in a non-GUI pet-install and grub-install, are you working in a new Package Manager too?

Some small applications to manage rpm and deb files will be great, for a powerful building block system. You could try my alienmanager application, I made it for 214X project but surely will work in pUPnGO, because it uses standard busybox commands. You can check it at:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42553&start=2589

Which other basic tools do you have in mind?

Greetings,
clarf
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Thu 11 Feb 2010, 00:50    Post subject:  

tubby: Thanks!

clarf: I fully agree - it should contain these small but powerful basic applications. I have made the grub and half of the bootmanager, have started on a very simple PET-install and the Universal installer is on hold (extremely complicated for me). But it takes me ages to rewrite them to run in dialog only...

The good thing is that dialog scripts can be made so they run nicely in Xdialog. (although Xdialog adds 3Mb to the pUPnGO-iso).

Other basic tools: date and time setter, timezone setter etc. The small utilities that are nice to have inside and already present in P412 - but converted to dialog only.

I will take a look at your alienmanager soon - sounds good.

Kim
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`f00


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 809
Location: the Western Reserve

PostPosted: Fri 12 Feb 2010, 08:10    Post subject:
Subject description: small is nice
 

pup with purpose, what a concept (always did like 412 for some reason). If I can figure out a not-too-complex way to get it to boot from my old zip100 (ack, hopefully not wakepup .. tried it a few times and it only made my head hurt), this leaves a fair amount of storage and a good limiting factor whilst using media that should serve nicely if it works.. Need a break from the candy anyways and the case is due for a cleaning Wink
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Fri 12 Feb 2010, 16:16    Post subject:  

New upload of the basic pUPnGO done. The bug with saving personal file has been solved.
This was a major drawback for the whole concept of pUPnGO. Solution is to have some small content in /etc/rc.local checking if there are content in /initrd/pup_z, and if, copy it to root. A personal save afterwards will contain the content from zdrv_412.sfs. There might be more elegant ways to do it - but it seems to work. I think this is a "clean" solution - all your zdrv-toppings ends in your personal save-file, zdrv-approach in pUPnGO "restored" and basis pup_412pUPnGO.sfs no longer needs to be modified/hacked by builders - all additional stuff can be introduced via zdrv_412.sfs.

This also sort of solves the non-GUI/GUI question. Basis is non-GUI, GUI can be introduced by additional sfs, a PET install inside pUPnGO, build in via zdrv_412.sfs etc.

The pUPnGO_V412_XVESA_JWM.iso have been updated (concerning the save bug) but still do not use the zdrv-approach. The pUPnGO_V412_XVESA_JWM.iso is now a “showcase” and will not be maintained further.

Additional applications: I think there is a potential in BusyBox daemons and applications already present in pUPnGO - it is just to identify and maybe write a dialog user interface - just a thought...

Another thought: You do not have to build to an iso-image - it should be possible to build directly to a flash or usb-drive - and even at build time include a personal save-file. Haven’t tried this - but why not?
kim
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