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Grub4DosConfig
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davesurrey

Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 09:34    Post_subject:  

Frank
It's difficult to answer as I'm not sure what
Quote:
It worked until I blew up windows
really means.
If your Windows OS is really damaged so badly that any attempt to recover it using the Windows CD is not feasable then obviously you will have to reinstall it. Windows will then take over the MBR that Ubuntu had been setup to use but it's a simple task to set up for grub to use the MBR again.

However if you mean that grub won't boot Windows anymore then that's a different issue.

If you explained more what error message you get etc we might be able to help but until then ...that's it. Smile

2. Unless you really want to get involved with grub2 then stick with grub-legacy at this stage.

3.
Quote:
It is possible to reformat that first partition and reinstall xp or Karmic without creating a nightmare ? I was told to always install win first but that is not possible.


As above, if you install linux and then windows, then windows will take over the booting (and remember windows can't boot linux directly.) So windows first then linux is the prefered sequence because grub can boot windows and linux.

No idea what is on your first partition.

4.
Quote:
Why do in need grub for frugal puppy installs? Just to save inserting the CD?

To boot any OS you need a boot loader. See my long post to nooby above. If you don't use grub or similar on your hard disk then you need to use a floppy or CD or usb stick, or whatever to boot Puppy. The Puppy CD can do this.

5.
Quote:
And lastly did I understand grub for dos is included in Puppy 4XX and if so how do I access it?

No it isn't. Puppy 4xx to date uses grub-legacy. But I believe Barry is considering using grub4dos in the future.

HTH
Dave
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 10:06    Post_subject:  

Thanks,

so frugal install is better than loop mounted squash what ever?

UNetbootin allow frugal install and Puppy can do it too.

Slitaz if I remember have a kind of .iso install that is very close to frugal. you don't even have to open the iso and take out files? But that was one year ago and it could only save to usb not to the ntfs. They have changed this in later versions.

I had read the thing you quoted from Linux Mint too but fail to get why that is like they say. I just have to trust the expertese.

every linux distro should be made so it allow for frugal install on same hdd partition as the Vista or Win7. That is what I expect. But I am spoiled by Puppy.

Here is the menu.

Quote:
default 0
timeout 10

title pup431jp
find --set-root /pup431jp/vmlinuz
kernel /pup431jp/vmlinuz psubdir=pup431jp
initrd /pup431jp/initrd.gz
boot

title macpup
find --set-root /macpup/vmlinuz
kernel /macpup/vmlinuz psubdir=macpup
initrd /macpup/initrd.gz
boot

title quirky005
find --set-root /quirky005/vmlinuz
kernel /quirky005/vmlinuz psubdir=quirky005
initrd /quirky005/initrd.gz
boot

title puppy431 (Puppeee431)
find --set-root /puppy431/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy431/vmlinuz
initrd /puppy431/initrd.gz
boot


all three pup431jp, macpup and quirky005 boots
while Puppeee431 says if fails to find the eee-431.sfs file.

I took down all the latest files from his repositry again and followed his description again very carefully and it still fails.

that I have no psubdir= for puppeee was suggested by the developer for it. As a test but that failed too.

So very suprising this happen.

I did put all the files on a USB stick and they worked right away.

Maybe the scrip think the eee-431.sfs should be on a usb? What file can I look in to see if that is the reason it fail to find it?

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 10:10    Post_subject:  

double post it seems sorry
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 10:29    Post_subject: Grub4Dos on puppy  

davesurrey wrote:
Puppy 4xx to date uses grub-legacy. But I believe Barry is considering using grub4dos in the future.

most of Puppy uses grub-legacy, yes.
Barry is now using Grub4Dos on Quirky.
And Puppy Linux 4.3.x Japanese editions are using Grub4Dos since last october 2009.

regarding dual boot of Windows and Linux, say Ubuntu, it is quite simple if your PC can boot up from CD.
  1. install Windows and Linux(es) in ANY order.
  2. boot up Puppy Linux 4.3.1JPqs0 from its live CD with 'on RAM only' mode.
  3. change the language to English.
  4. follow Menu > System > Grub4DosConfig
  5. the GUI will auto-detects Linux(es) you installed and adds menu for booting up windows.

well i have installed so many versions of puppy for testing...
the ubuntu(9.10) is installed via Wubi on the partition of windows 7.


Puppy Linux 4.3.1JPsq0 is available from here .

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 10:49    Post_subject:  

Can it be use like this from USB too or only from CD/DVD?

And if I forgot to tell you. yes rebooting the jwm did change from Japanese to English. thanks.

Edit thanks I give feedback in some ten minutes.

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:02    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
Can it be use like this from USB too or only from CD/DVD?

if you have installed 4.3.1JP on the USB, boot it up and follow Menu > System > Grub4DosConfig .
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 11:19    Post_subject:  

I am in your pup431JP but if I go there you directed me then in want to install.

I maybe not read you as you intended. I try again.

Edit

Aah sorry it was me so coward and afraid I checked a few boxes there.

Yes it did what you say.

so could not this help me boot linux Mint then.

If I put the iso of Min in its own folder and unzip the vmlinuz and initrd and then let the loader do the rest? Is that unrealistic maybe.

What could work? Do you have any clue on if it is possible?

thanks indeed for providing this version. If something happen to the boot of vista then this usb then can boot it up?

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 12:15    Post_subject:  

nooby wrote:
If I put the iso of Min
...
What could work?

Say, unetbootin installs some linux distributions from iso file.
but Grub4Dos is not an installer but a boot loader. the GUI generates the menu.lst for INSTALLED OS'es.

nooby wrote:
If something happen to the boot of vista then this usb then can boot it up?

No.
Your usb is boot up from windows bootmgr. so windows(bootmgr) failes, your usb also fails.

One rescue is the 431JP(qs0) live CD.
Another is your usb if you install grub4dos on your usb.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 12:26    Post_subject:  

So either a rescue CD or a rescue usb mem pin then.

Quote:
Another is your usb if you install grub4dos on your usb.


Oh I wanted to install linux mint using the UNetbootin but that made that computer unable to use UNetbootin again because it locked itself out.

Very odd thing. A loop where it forever ask if if one want to uninstall it and never allow one to use it.

So I ran out of imagination on how to install a wubi or frugal version of Mint on that Vista computer.

Can pup431JP with Grub4Dos install a frugal version of Mint from the Mint.iso?

or can I do manually what UNetbootin try to do automatically following a script. I mean the guy that wrote it must have done it manually first?

TuxCantFly his username on some forums. He has not been active for long time now. Hope all is ok with him.

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davesurrey

Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 14:26    Post_subject:  

nooby
Quote:
that I have no psubdir= for puppeee was suggested by the developer for it. As a test but that failed too.

Either you need to add
Code:
psubdir=puppy431
if the puppy files are all in a subdirectory called puppy431

or you must move the puppy files for puppeee431 to / rather than keep them in a subdirectory as well as changing grub to
Code:
title puppy431 (Puppeee431)
find --set-root /vmlinuz
kernel /vmlinuz
initrd /initrd.gz
boot


Quote:
every linux distro should be made so it allow for frugal install on same hdd partition as the Vista or Win7. That is what I expect

In which case you are going to be very unsatisfied in the future.

HTH
Dave

shinobar
Thanks for explaining that 431jp uses grub4dos. I guess this is the first. It does look like a very useful tool to have around.

Yes there are several ways of installing windows and ubuntu. I guess everyone has their own way they prefer. What I described here was just to help nooby in his specific requirements.

Cheers
Dave
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 15:37    Post_subject:  

Sadly that suggestion did not work.

But I trust what the developer told me. It could be one of the experiments for Ext 3 instead of a generic saving to all kinds of formats.

so he will take a look at how to make it work on ntfs and come back in the puppeee thread.

Re the mint I set up in frugal mode. It failed to save book marks.

so I need to find a solution to that one. And before it boots it looks through the whole HDD and that takes time. So if one could tell it to not do that.

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davesurrey

Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jan 2010, 23:21    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Sadly that suggestion did not work.

But I trust what the developer told me

By all means, but I can assure you that your grub code would never work as it stands.

Also I have just checked and puppeee won't boot for me if I install to a desktop but quirky 005 (which puppeee is based on) will boot so it seems the lack of drivers in puppeee (it is designed mainly for asus eee netbooks) is most likely the reason.

Quote:
Re the mint I set up in frugal mode.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. Rolling Eyes
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 28 Jan 2010, 05:44    Post_subject:  

davesurrey wrote:
Quote:
Sadly that suggestion did not work.

But I trust what the developer told me

By all means, but I can assure you that your grub code would never work as it stands.

Also I have just checked and puppeee won't boot for me if I install to a desktop but quirky 005 (which puppeee is based on) will boot so it seems the lack of drivers in puppeee (it is designed mainly for asus eee netbooks) is most likely the reason.

Quote:
Re the mint I set up in frugal mode.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. Rolling Eyes


Depends on what you refer to here:

"I can assure you that your grub code would never work as it stands.
"

Well it does work. It is the saving that I have not implemented yet.

But the code as it is works very good.
By frugal I mean that the wmlinuz and the initrd are in a subdir and the pup-43.sfs is there too and the code tell the loader to search for them all over the HDD and this it do and find them and load them up and it just works. While if one tell them where to look then one have to know how to tell them and that I don't now yet. I am too much newbie to know if it is hda1 or sda1 or sata or ide or scsi or what?

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JustGreg

Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 705
Location: Connecticut USA

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jan 2010, 21:51    Post_subject:
Sub_title: Grub4Dos HTML Guide
 

I have Shionbar's GUI for Grub4Dos. It does work. I tried the help button and found it connect to a web site with a Guide for Grub4Dos. The HTML files were available in a zip file. One downloads and places the zip file in a directory. My suggestion is /root/my-documents. Unzips the file by clicking on it in Rox File manager. This will bring up the xarchieve tool and by slecting all buton, files will be selected. Then click on the extract button. the files will be extracted. Checking the directory with the zip file, you should see a file Grub4Dos.htm and a directory named files. Click on Grub4Dos.htm to open the guide.

In Quirky006, which has Grub4Dos, there is only the bootlace.com file. The grldr file is not present. I did a frugal install of Puppy 4.3.1 to a Windows XP partition. One can use the grldr with the normal Windows XP boot manager to start Grub4Dos without changing the MBR. It work exacting like the Guide showed.
grub4dos_htm.zip
Description 
zip

 Download 
Filename  grub4dos_htm.zip 
Filesize  973.38 KB 
Downloaded  969 Time(s) 

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan 2010, 02:26    Post_subject:  

Yes it works in WinXP. My AOpen which has XP is full of Linux. Puppy, Nimblex, Vector Soho, Slitaz, and many more.

But Windows Vista is a bit more complex. AFAIK there are still no step for step description on how to do manual frugal install of different linuxes in Vista or Win7.

so that is why I use EasyBCD that make use of NeoGrub which is based on Grub4Dos but just a variation. AFAIK it does the same thing.

I try to open the file in windows instead. That worked well.

I can understand why you recommend it. But is it really for Vista?
When I searched the biggest text document they only mention XP and older, they most likely did not have it implemented for Vista when they prepared that text.

I found this mention in one of the htm files

Quote:
Attempting to install Windows Vista to (hd1) will result in the BCD store and other boot files being written to the active partition on (hd0).

To avoid this, temporarily remove (hd0) from the system (either disable the disk in the BIOS settings or physically remove it by disconnecting the IDE/SATA lead).

Make sure that the Vista disk is set as "Master" and install Windows Vista from the installation DVD.

When the Vista installation has completed, reconnect the first hard disk and set it as "master", and set the Vista disk as "slave".


But I am not to install Vista. that is the OS that the OEM already have on my computer and which need to be retained in it's precise state to keep warranty of the computer. I talked to the support of the Acer company here in Scandinavia and that is the rules. No resizing of HDD. No partition so I have to learn frugal install of all linuxes I want to test or to use USB or CD live install with persistent.

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