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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
"Just Works" Configuration of Ethernet at bootup
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jan 2010, 19:24    Post subject:  "Just Works" Configuration of Ethernet at bootup
Subject description: Just about every other OS does it, why not puppy?
 

Puppy is great at detecting hardware and "Just Working", but for one subtle point. An ethernet internet connection via dhcp (by far the most common type) is not auto-detected and configured. With Ubuntu and Windows it is.

Would there be any reason for this? I understand BarryK uses some kind of dial up/satellite connection. Could this be an oversight?

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SirDuncan


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 00:07    Post subject:  

As I understand it, the original reason was that DHCP on boot was run synchronously. This meant that the boot process paused while this happened. Barry felt it was better to have it not take up time on the first boot in case there wasn't actually a live connection or the user was just booting up to do PC rescue work where the connection was unnecessary.

Now that DHCP is run as a background process, I don't think that is still an issue. It's probably more of a legacy thing at this point. Like you said, Barry may not think about it since he doesn't use it.

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drongo


Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 05:15    Post subject: Minimally invasive  

Don't think it's an oversight. Puppy started off as a minimally invasive live-CD. It didn't mount disks or connect to networks. It was more like a tiny "forensic" CD but without all of the applications. I think this is probably a question of philosophy rather than a mistake.

Puppy leaves you completely in control. If you want to install it on your harddrive it doesn't repartition the drive and destroy your boot partition so you can only use Puppy. (Unlike some Linux distros).

Probably better to regard Puppy as a base from which other distros can be built (as MU has suggested). Some of us, however, are happy with it as it is.

If you want auto-DHCP on ethernet, automounting of disks etc you'll have to modify some of the scripts in Puppy.

Woof should make this kind of customisation (at least of apps) much easier.

I vote for not doing everything automatically and leaving me in charge of my machine.

If Puppy does everything the same as other distros what would be the point of having it? if every distro cloned the functionality of every other distro you would only need one distro.

Leave the base Puppy alone, it's fine as it is. Modify it for your needs.

I don't run an internet cafe in Scunthorpe. I don't need a Linux which is optimised for this.

If I wanted to use Ubuntu or Windows I would. I don't want to. I use Windows at work because I have to. I use Puppy (and other Linuxes) at home because I want to.

Puppy is a good foundation for building other, app-heavy Linux distros. Don't muck about with the foundations, you'll muck up the rest of the building!
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 08:44    Post subject: Re: Minimally invasive  

drongo wrote:


I don't run an internet cafe in Scunthorpe. I don't need a Linux which is optimised for this.


Neither do I. However, I'd love to know how to do it...since there is requirement to use Puppy as the OS for an application that will be used by folks who may not have the skills to setup the Internet connection.

Thom
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tubby

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 09:39    Post subject:  

Try adding to your /startup dir
dhclient
dhclient-script
dhcpcd (symlink to dhclient)
dhcpd
All downloadable from the ibiblio packages.
Worked ok for me on a frugal install, found and connected to ETH0.
You may not need all of the above but i went for belt and braces. Laughing
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runtt21


Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 1649
Location: BigD Texas

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 09:46    Post subject:  

Might be a good idea to have the firewall running first.
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racepres


Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 531
Location: Central Michigan, US

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 10:28    Post subject:  

Well.. I use "full" installs, and my box always comes up connected to the "last connection used". Not a new one, however. Good enough for the girls I go with...
RP
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drongo


Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 10:34    Post subject:  

If you do a full install or a frugal or you save an sfs file from a live-CD session and you go through the network wizard once, tick dhcp and then save the session on closedown you will get automatic connection every time you boot. (As far as I know, I have never done a full or frugal install of Puppy.)

Is there a requirement for the live-CD to automatically do dhcp on the ethernet connection when there is no sfs file? Well I don't have that requirement. If other folks do, fine, but make it an option not a default.

If you want a machine that will boot off a CD and auto-dhcp why not create an sfs file?

I absolutely agree that Puppy should be easy to use but if we start reducing user options how will it differ from Windows or Ubuntu?
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 11:04    Post subject:  

drongo wrote:

I absolutely agree that Puppy should be easy to use but if we start reducing user options how will it differ from Windows or Ubuntu?


A software package has been produced for Senior Citizens that is extremely simple to use. I suggested that the Linux version could be distributed using Puppy as the OS, and produced an iso for that.

The applications folks want to roll-out the ISO for distribution in Europe and the US....and requested a version that did NOT require setting the internet connection parameters.

So, instead of debating issues, I'd simply like to produce the ISO as requested.

Thom
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drongo


Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 12:46    Post subject: Senior puppies  

So make an ISO for seniors. Puppy base is a 100MB iso or thereabouts. It can't contain everything or please everyone as is. Since it is customisable I would guess that it could be made useful to many, many people.

Either users can customise it themselves or devs can produce variants. Turbo-pup has double-click enabled for instance.

With a live-Cd you only really have about three options.

Developer decides on what he thinks are sensible defaults and you are stuck with them.

Developer decides on what he thinks are sensible defaults but has lots of simple dialogue screens to change stuff after initial boot. (Current Puppy base mode of operation.)

Developer lets user customise everything and makes them make lots of choices at every boot. (Currently you only really need to choose screen resolution, keyboard and time-zone. I'd be happier with more, but I bet most users wouldn't be.)

(Puppy has fourth way of saving decisions in sfs file.)

I don't want the standard base Puppy to have an unalterable default of "dhcp on". That changes the nature of the beast from minimally invasive to "we know best". In my opinion that is a major change in philosophy.

Puppy is small and agile.

There are bigger, maybe slower to boot, versions for people who want MAC look and feel, children's games, retro game emulators, graphics, religious studies, ham radio programs etc.

I fully support the idea of a variant for less technical seniors and variants with assistive technologies included but these should no more be part of a standard Puppy than, say, a genealogy suite of programs surely? It's only 100 MB, not 650 MB or 4.5 GB.

It's great that a Puppy variant can run on an ASUS EE (or whatever it's called) but it shouldn't mean the base iso can't run on anything else.

Help - save our Puppy from special interest groups who know what's best for everybody. I'm part of the group "everybody" and I like stuff just the way it is.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 15:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
I fully support the idea of a variant for less technical seniors and variants with assistive technologies included but these should no more be part of a standard Puppy than, say, a genealogy suite of programs surely? It's only 100 MB, not 650 MB or 4.5 GB.


Could one not do a compromize.

At boot it ask if one are experienced setting up networks and sound and whathaveyou and if one answer one are not good at it then it do things automatically and if one are experienced then it let the thing work as you wanted it? Smile

I too often fail to do the network thing.

so I chose Puppeee 4.3.1 because that one do get the wired LAN out of the box. Sound works too. Streaming video works. I used month on this 2008 and never got it to work until nimblex linux had a version that just worked. You tube failed for me until I found a version that just worked. Puppeee does that.

I tested some 40 different linux distros and only five worked out ofthe box and if it failed then I failed to install it too. So some of us "stoopid" people need the preinstalled just working out of box versions.

I like Puppy very much and want one for the advanced people and one for us who always fail with things like computers.

that way everybody is happy.

Maybe Woof and Quirky will get me what I want when they are ready for stable versions. total customization.

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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 17:18    Post subject: Re: Senior puppies  

drongo wrote:
So make an ISO for seniors. Puppy base is a 100MB iso or thereabouts. It can't contain everything or please everyone as is. Since it is customisable I would guess that it could be made useful to many, many people.

I fully support the idea of a variant for less technical seniors and variants with assistive technologies included but these should no more be part of a standard Puppy than, say, a genealogy suite of programs surely? It's only 100 MB, not 650 MB or 4.5 GB.



It is made....and I simply asked how to get it to autodetect the internet....I never said to change the puppy basic ISO, create a huge ISO or anything like that.

If you can tell me how to do it, I'd appreciate it....I simply don't have the time to engage in the Puppy-Dialectics.

Quote:

It's great that a Puppy variant can run on an ASUS EE (or whatever it's called) but it shouldn't mean the base iso can't run on anything else.

Help - save our Puppy from special interest groups who know what's best for everybody. I'm part of the group "everybody" and I like stuff just the way it is.


Try to stay on topic.....none of the stuff in the two paragraphs quoted above was mentioned, suggested or desired.

thom
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 17:25    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:

Could one not do a compromize.


Having a compromise might offend the purists....I never suggested chaniging Puppy....simply asked how to incorporate a feature in an iso I created.

I suppose I'll have to back to the applications developers and tell them that even if they want to have an international rollout of their linux version, even if they liked the iso I made for them with all the obvious advantages of Puppy, that a simply request to have the system auto detect the internet violates some obscure rule.

Thom
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tubby

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 17:32    Post subject:  

Have you tried my suggestion?.
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 17:57    Post subject:  

tubby wrote:
Have you tried my suggestion?.


Sorry, did not see it.....will try and report back...thanks
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