[Howto] From Vista to dual booting Vista and Puppy

How to do things, solutions, recipes, tutorials
Message
Author
User avatar
T_Hobbit
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat 27 May 2006, 10:50
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

[Howto] From Vista to dual booting Vista and Puppy

#1 Post by T_Hobbit »

For Linux newbies that don't what to make partitions at Vista's HD:

Download unetbootin.
Download your favorite ISO Puppy.
Run unetbootin and select the ISO downloaded.
Choose to install to HD.
Reboot.
Chose unetbootin from the menu.

This worked for me. I only have 1 hard disk with a single partition.
Hope it helps!

How to edit your new configuration?

To change boot time option on Vista:
Right click "My Computer"
Properties
Advanced System Configuration (or something like that - Portuguese Vista here)
Advanced
Recovery and start up definitions
Change OS sequence and boot time as you like.

To change Puppy boot options:
Make a C:\Puppy directory
Copy vmlinuz, initrd.gz, *.sfs to that directory.
Edit c:\unetbtin\menu.lst to look like

Code: Select all

default 0
timeout 5

title puppy
find --set-root /puppy/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy
initrd /puppy/initrd.gz
boot
Reboot and chose unetbootin from the menu.

This is my menu.lst

Code: Select all

default 0
timeout 5

title boxpup
find --set-root /boxpup/vmlinuz
kernel /boxpup/vmlinuz psubdir=boxpup acpi=off
initrd /boxpup/initrd.gz
boot

title puppy
find --set-root /puppy/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy acpi=off
initrd /puppy/initrd.gz
boot
As you can see I have 2 Puppy versions working fine, each one inside it's own directory and savefile. Inside each directory only 4 files: initrd.gz, pup-*.sfs, vmlinuz and pupsave (this only after first successful reboot).

I DID NOT USE ANY PARTITION PROGRAM!!!

More to come as I'll find out more stuff.
Last edited by T_Hobbit on Thu 24 Dec 2009, 10:53, edited 5 times in total.
T_Hobbit
:idea: Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy :!: Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested :?:

disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#2 Post by disciple »

Why do you need unetbootin?
Puppy is designed to do this in the first place - we call it a "frugal" install.
Do you know a good gtkdialog program? Please post a link here

Classic Puppy quotes

ROOT FOREVER
GTK2 FOREVER

User avatar
8-bit
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 03:37
Location: Oregon

#3 Post by 8-bit »

If you do a frugal install to a partition that boots Vista, and use GRUB to install the bootloader to MBR, you will overwrite the Vista boot sector and Vista will not boot from the boot menu.
I used Easy BCD to be able to boot Puppy on the same computer without messing up Vista's boot sector.

Jim1911
Posts: 2460
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 20:39
Location: Texas, USA

#4 Post by Jim1911 »

Boot4dos does an excellent job booting a frugal installation. Barry is including it in future releases.

A frugal installation, in it's own directory, is the best option when installing another OS on the same partition. A full hd installation can easily ruin the existing Vista.

User avatar
T_Hobbit
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat 27 May 2006, 10:50
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

#5 Post by T_Hobbit »

I'm talking about Windows Vista. Not 9x nor 2K, not even XP.
This was the only way I found to dual boot a frugal install with Vista. And never saw another way to do that on the forum... And the next version is not available yet... That's why I used unetbootin! Easy!
T_Hobbit
:idea: Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy :!: Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested :?:

disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#6 Post by disciple »

Oh, I didn't realise Vista needs a Vista mbr... that's stupid :)
Like Jim says you should also be able to do it using grub4dos, which you need to add to the Windows boot menu... I have no idea if unetbootin is easier or harder than it though :)
Do you know a good gtkdialog program? Please post a link here

Classic Puppy quotes

ROOT FOREVER
GTK2 FOREVER

ICPUG
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon 25 Jul 2005, 00:09
Location: UK

#7 Post by ICPUG »

If unetbootin works for you then great. When it first appeared there used to be problems but maybe it has improved.

However the following text comes from the 'How to remove' section on the unetbootin page

Quote
To manually remove a Linux installation, you will have to restore the Windows bootloader using "fixmbr" from a recovery CD, and use Parted Magic to delete the Linux partition and expand the Windows partition.
Unquote

Try doing that with an OEM version of Vista without a recovery disk.

Grub4DOS, in its EasyBCD and neogrub incarnation, is the safest way to dual boot and not potentially mess up Windows. This is because it does not touch the Windows bootloader (only its config file) or require partitioning.

Note: Grub4DOS can still be used like grub and be installed to the MBR. I don't recommend that when frugal dual booting with Windows. It will be interesting to see what the Universal Installer does when Barry uses grub4DOS in Quirky. I'm not holding my breath.

amigo
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2007, 06:52

#8 Post by amigo »

There is another trick for using grub4dos with vista. You simply rename the ntldr and copy grldr to the drive named as ntldr. vista happily boots the new file -you need to setup a normal menu.lst for it which will then load vista also.

Do you still have an unaltered MBR? If so, could you send me a copy? I am writing a bootloader-detection script and need an unaltered vista MBR for testing?
pm me, write me an email, please, if you do.
See this thread for my request and instructions:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=49926

User avatar
mikeb
Posts: 11297
Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006, 13:56

#9 Post by mikeb »

From the grub4dos wiki
Booting GRUB for DOS via the Windows Vista boot manager

Use bcdedit to configure the startup menu:

bcdedit /create /d "Start GRUB4DOS" /application bootsector
bcdedit /set {id} device boot
bcdedit /set {id} path \grldr.mbr
bcdedit /displayorder {id} /addlast

Then copy grldr.mbr to C:\, grldr and menu.lst to the root directory of any FAT16/FAT32/NTFS/EXT2 partition.

Note: previous version of grldr.mbr can also be used in boot.ini of Windows NT/2000/XP/2003. But it doesn't work anymore with the latest version.
to me is does appear that vista needs different handling to previous windows NT versions whatever the boot method used

With grub4dos I boot windows by calling ntldr directly rather than using the bootsector..I wonder if that would work for vista too ...(It has ntldr under a different name I believe)
mike

ICPUG
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon 25 Jul 2005, 00:09
Location: UK

#10 Post by ICPUG »

Yes - Amigo's instructions are really for XP, since it uses ntldr. I use this trick on my laptop but it carries a slight risk in that if you screw the setup Windows might be lost until you can get a Live CD and change the filenames back again!

Vista uses Bootmgr and I have heard tell that a similar trick can be used - but I haven't tested it cos I don't have Vista!

A nice description of the various Windows boot process can be found here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529

User avatar
T_Hobbit
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat 27 May 2006, 10:50
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

#11 Post by T_Hobbit »

ICPUG wrote: Vista uses Bootmgr and I have heard tell that a similar trick can be used - but I haven't tested it cos I don't have Vista!
Which trick? I described how to use unetbootin cause it's the easiest way I found FOR VISTA USERS (newbies with Linux). Running unetbootin, dual boot can be installed from inside Windows! Does not requires Linux knowledge.
Uninstall is as simple as uninstall any other Windows program: add/remove program.
T_Hobbit
:idea: Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy :!: Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested :?:

disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#12 Post by disciple »

Which trick?
The one about replacing ntldr with grldr. unetbootin does sound easier, as long as you have the permissions to install it.
Do you know a good gtkdialog program? Please post a link here

Classic Puppy quotes

ROOT FOREVER
GTK2 FOREVER

User avatar
T_Hobbit
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat 27 May 2006, 10:50
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

#13 Post by T_Hobbit »

disciple wrote: The one about replacing ntldr with grldr.
I mean, how can I do that on Vista? I know how to do something like that with XP...
T_Hobbit
:idea: Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy :!: Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested :?:

disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#14 Post by disciple »

I don't know... they just said it was a "similar trick".
Personally I would never have even dreamed you could do it on XP :)
Do you know a good gtkdialog program? Please post a link here

Classic Puppy quotes

ROOT FOREVER
GTK2 FOREVER

User avatar
WhoDo
Posts: 4428
Joined: Wed 12 Jul 2006, 01:58
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

#15 Post by WhoDo »

I have Vista on my laptop as the key boot OS. It came with the laptop and I keep there for client support reasons.

I used EasyBCD (a free Windows executable app) to make it easy to edit the Vista boot loader. EasyBCD also includes NeoGRUB which can be used to boot Linux straight from the Vista boot loader - I've done that with Ubuntu before. Thirdly, EasyBCD also has the capacity to dual boot with a Mac OS. I've never seen that anywhere before, so I'm assuming its for PowerMac's, MacOSX or something similar.

I then added Puppy (booting from its own GRUB boot partition with multiple Puppy partitions feeding off that).

Finally I added OpenSUSE 11.1 and Ubuntu 9.10, each booting from GRUB in their own partition but chaining from the Vista boot loader.

Bottom Line: All of my many OS versions on the laptop boot first through the Vista boot loader (single point of access), which then chains to their GRUB boot loader in the appropriate location. With OpenSUSE and Ubuntu I set GRUB timeout to 0 so they just appear to skip right to the chained OS. With Puppy I get Vista boot > GRUB > Puppy version of choice ...

It sounds complicated but it isn't. EasyBCD makes sure it isn't. It doesn't alter the Vista boot sector AFAIK, but it does alter the configuration file. The only requirement for all of this is that the Vista partition must be the boot partition. You can change the boot partition with GParted but then EasyBCD cannot find the Vista boot loader to make further changes to its configuration file ... the two appear directly linked, unlike XP where boot.sys was independently editable.

Using this system I have NEVER had a problem booting anything, including Vista.

Hope that helps.
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#16 Post by nooby »

Thanks for this thread T_Hobbit.

Worked well on my Compaq SR5622SC Desktop.

But what I worry about are how Puppy save changes.

Does it no format in Ext or something. That would change the recovery partition on my computer which makes the warranty go away.

Maybe not correct thread to ask this. But in case any of you know.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#17 Post by nooby »

Here is my menu.lst after UNetbootin has prepared it for Min8 on a Compaq SR 5622 Vista machine,
default 0
timeout 10

title UNetbootin
find --set-root /unetbtin/ubnkern
kernel /unetbtin/ubnkern file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper quiet splash --
initrd /unetbtin/ubninit
boot

title Start Linux Mint
find --set-root /casper/vmlinuz
kernel /casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.gz
boot

title Start Linux Mint (compatibility mode)
find --set-root /casper/vmlinuz
kernel /casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper xforcevesa ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram rw noapic noapci nosplash irqpoll --
initrd /casper/initrd.gz
boot

title Start Linux Mint (OEM installation mode)
find --set-root /casper/vmlinuz
kernel /casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper oem-config/enable=true only-ubiquity quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.gz
boot

title Check the integrity of the CD
find --set-root /casper/vmlinuz
kernel /casper/vmlinuz boot=casper integrity-check quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.gz
boot

title Memory Test
find --set-root /isolinux/memtest
kernel /isolinux/memtest
initrd /unetbtin/ubninit
boot

title Boot from local drive
find --set-root /unetbtin/ubnkern
kernel /unetbtin/ubnkern
initrd /unetbtin/ubninit
boot
So I would then creat a new folder for Boxpup431 or something other puppy.

And then extract the needed files and put them in proper places and then at boot chose Puppy instead of Mint 8 to boot.

That would most likely work then?

I only have to find a Puppy that can deal with my hardware and what I most want it is that it works with Youtube and Streaming video out of the box. No messing around because I always fail to grasp how to do such without step for step hand led mouth spoon fed bit for bit which is tedious for the poor guy wanting to help me out.

Which puppy is most likely to work with Compaq SR5622SC? and that have youtuve flash and such from scratch out of the box?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#18 Post by nooby »

Your menu.lst is like this
default 0
timeout 5

title boxpup
find --set-root /boxpup/vmlinuz
kernel /boxpup/vmlinuz psubdir=boxpup acpi=off
initrd /boxpup/initrd.gz
boot

title puppy
find --set-root /puppy/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy acpi=off
initrd /puppy/initrd.gz
boot
Doesn't that means you have two puppy. one new Beta version of next puppy named Boxpup and one standard Puppy ?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#19 Post by nooby »

T_Hobbit, thanks indeed. Success because I write from within Puppy 431? now downloaded from NL server and using your method and the menulist you gave. Are you sure the ACPI should be off? Why?

Think it is latest puppy and youtube and streaming video from our two main TV stations worked out of the box but the wired LAN network had to be set up by hand but hopefully I remember how to do it next time or it save how to by itself.

Thanks indeed for Puppy.

Maybe I can use your method on the Win7 machine too now when I have confirmed that it went smoothly on the Vista machine.

The EasyBCD says that one is better but I fail to get how they do it.

I have read and read the text on how to but I don't trust me can do such.

But if the EasyBCD is a better way then I sure want to learn. Give me a link to a good step by step description
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#20 Post by nooby »

T_Hobbit after I took away the acpi=off the puppy shut down properly.

So maybe that one was unique for your system and that you need to edit first post and make a comment that one could add it if it is needed.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

Post Reply