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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
[Howto] From Vista to dual booting Vista and Puppy
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T_Hobbit


Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec 2009, 13:17    Post subject:  [Howto] From Vista to dual booting Vista and Puppy
Subject description: 1 drive - 1 partition - 2 OS
 

For Linux newbies that don't what to make partitions at Vista's HD:

Download unetbootin.
Download your favorite ISO Puppy.
Run unetbootin and select the ISO downloaded.
Choose to install to HD.
Reboot.
Chose unetbootin from the menu.

This worked for me. I only have 1 hard disk with a single partition.
Hope it helps!

How to edit your new configuration?

To change boot time option on Vista:
Right click "My Computer"
Properties
Advanced System Configuration (or something like that - Portuguese Vista here)
Advanced
Recovery and start up definitions
Change OS sequence and boot time as you like.

To change Puppy boot options:
Make a C:\Puppy directory
Copy vmlinuz, initrd.gz, *.sfs to that directory.
Edit c:\unetbtin\menu.lst to look like

Code:
default 0
timeout 5

title puppy
find --set-root /puppy/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy
initrd /puppy/initrd.gz
boot


Reboot and chose unetbootin from the menu.

This is my menu.lst

Code:
default 0
timeout 5

title boxpup
find --set-root /boxpup/vmlinuz
kernel /boxpup/vmlinuz psubdir=boxpup acpi=off
initrd /boxpup/initrd.gz
boot

title puppy
find --set-root /puppy/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy acpi=off
initrd /puppy/initrd.gz
boot


As you can see I have 2 Puppy versions working fine, each one inside it's own directory and savefile. Inside each directory only 4 files: initrd.gz, pup-*.sfs, vmlinuz and pupsave (this only after first successful reboot).

I DID NOT USE ANY PARTITION PROGRAM!!!

More to come as I'll find out more stuff.

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T_Hobbit
Idea Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy Exclamation Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested Question

Last edited by T_Hobbit on Thu 24 Dec 2009, 06:53; edited 5 times in total
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6435
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec 2009, 14:38    Post subject:  

Why do you need unetbootin?
Puppy is designed to do this in the first place - we call it a "frugal" install.

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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3368
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec 2009, 15:37    Post subject:  

If you do a frugal install to a partition that boots Vista, and use GRUB to install the bootloader to MBR, you will overwrite the Vista boot sector and Vista will not boot from the boot menu.
I used Easy BCD to be able to boot Puppy on the same computer without messing up Vista's boot sector.
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2457
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec 2009, 16:19    Post subject:  

Boot4dos does an excellent job booting a frugal installation. Barry is including it in future releases.

A frugal installation, in it's own directory, is the best option when installing another OS on the same partition. A full hd installation can easily ruin the existing Vista.
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T_Hobbit


Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec 2009, 18:16    Post subject:  

I'm talking about Windows Vista. Not 9x nor 2K, not even XP.
This was the only way I found to dual boot a frugal install with Vista. And never saw another way to do that on the forum... And the next version is not available yet... That's why I used unetbootin! Easy!

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T_Hobbit
Idea Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy Exclamation Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested Question
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6435
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec 2009, 05:29    Post subject:  

Oh, I didn't realise Vista needs a Vista mbr... that's stupid Smile
Like Jim says you should also be able to do it using grub4dos, which you need to add to the Windows boot menu... I have no idea if unetbootin is easier or harder than it though Smile

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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec 2009, 09:25    Post subject:  

If unetbootin works for you then great. When it first appeared there used to be problems but maybe it has improved.

However the following text comes from the 'How to remove' section on the unetbootin page

Quote
To manually remove a Linux installation, you will have to restore the Windows bootloader using "fixmbr" from a recovery CD, and use Parted Magic to delete the Linux partition and expand the Windows partition.
Unquote

Try doing that with an OEM version of Vista without a recovery disk.

Grub4DOS, in its EasyBCD and neogrub incarnation, is the safest way to dual boot and not potentially mess up Windows. This is because it does not touch the Windows bootloader (only its config file) or require partitioning.

Note: Grub4DOS can still be used like grub and be installed to the MBR. I don't recommend that when frugal dual booting with Windows. It will be interesting to see what the Universal Installer does when Barry uses grub4DOS in Quirky. I'm not holding my breath.
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2247

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec 2009, 13:33    Post subject:  

There is another trick for using grub4dos with vista. You simply rename the ntldr and copy grldr to the drive named as ntldr. vista happily boots the new file -you need to setup a normal menu.lst for it which will then load vista also.

Do you still have an unaltered MBR? If so, could you send me a copy? I am writing a bootloader-detection script and need an unaltered vista MBR for testing?
pm me, write me an email, please, if you do.
See this thread for my request and instructions:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=49926
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8252

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec 2009, 15:22    Post subject:  

From the grub4dos wiki

Quote:
Booting GRUB for DOS via the Windows Vista boot manager

Use bcdedit to configure the startup menu:

bcdedit /create /d "Start GRUB4DOS" /application bootsector
bcdedit /set {id} device boot
bcdedit /set {id} path \grldr.mbr
bcdedit /displayorder {id} /addlast

Then copy grldr.mbr to C:\, grldr and menu.lst to the root directory of any FAT16/FAT32/NTFS/EXT2 partition.

Note: previous version of grldr.mbr can also be used in boot.ini of Windows NT/2000/XP/2003. But it doesn't work anymore with the latest version.


to me is does appear that vista needs different handling to previous windows NT versions whatever the boot method used

With grub4dos I boot windows by calling ntldr directly rather than using the bootsector..I wonder if that would work for vista too ...(It has ntldr under a different name I believe)
mike
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 18 Dec 2009, 08:43    Post subject:  

Yes - Amigo's instructions are really for XP, since it uses ntldr. I use this trick on my laptop but it carries a slight risk in that if you screw the setup Windows might be lost until you can get a Live CD and change the filenames back again!

Vista uses Bootmgr and I have heard tell that a similar trick can be used - but I haven't tested it cos I don't have Vista!

A nice description of the various Windows boot process can be found here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529
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T_Hobbit


Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

PostPosted: Fri 18 Dec 2009, 19:40    Post subject:  

ICPUG wrote:

Vista uses Bootmgr and I have heard tell that a similar trick can be used - but I haven't tested it cos I don't have Vista!


Which trick? I described how to use unetbootin cause it's the easiest way I found FOR VISTA USERS (newbies with Linux). Running unetbootin, dual boot can be installed from inside Windows! Does not requires Linux knowledge.
Uninstall is as simple as uninstall any other Windows program: add/remove program.

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T_Hobbit
Idea Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy Exclamation Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested Question
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6435
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 18 Dec 2009, 20:04    Post subject:  

Quote:
Which trick?

The one about replacing ntldr with grldr. unetbootin does sound easier, as long as you have the permissions to install it.

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T_Hobbit


Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Portugal - Lisbon

PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec 2009, 04:14    Post subject:  

disciple wrote:

The one about replacing ntldr with grldr.

I mean, how can I do that on Vista? I know how to do something like that with XP...

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T_Hobbit
Idea Rebuilding old DOS Machine for Wing Commander Privateer and Puppy Exclamation Old spare parts to give away - anyone interested Question
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6435
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec 2009, 04:20    Post subject:  

I don't know... they just said it was a "similar trick".
Personally I would never have even dreamed you could do it on XP Smile

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec 2009, 18:25    Post subject:  

I have Vista on my laptop as the key boot OS. It came with the laptop and I keep there for client support reasons.

I used EasyBCD (a free Windows executable app) to make it easy to edit the Vista boot loader. EasyBCD also includes NeoGRUB which can be used to boot Linux straight from the Vista boot loader - I've done that with Ubuntu before. Thirdly, EasyBCD also has the capacity to dual boot with a Mac OS. I've never seen that anywhere before, so I'm assuming its for PowerMac's, MacOSX or something similar.

I then added Puppy (booting from its own GRUB boot partition with multiple Puppy partitions feeding off that).

Finally I added OpenSUSE 11.1 and Ubuntu 9.10, each booting from GRUB in their own partition but chaining from the Vista boot loader.

Bottom Line: All of my many OS versions on the laptop boot first through the Vista boot loader (single point of access), which then chains to their GRUB boot loader in the appropriate location. With OpenSUSE and Ubuntu I set GRUB timeout to 0 so they just appear to skip right to the chained OS. With Puppy I get Vista boot > GRUB > Puppy version of choice ...

It sounds complicated but it isn't. EasyBCD makes sure it isn't. It doesn't alter the Vista boot sector AFAIK, but it does alter the configuration file. The only requirement for all of this is that the Vista partition must be the boot partition. You can change the boot partition with GParted but then EasyBCD cannot find the Vista boot loader to make further changes to its configuration file ... the two appear directly linked, unlike XP where boot.sys was independently editable.

Using this system I have NEVER had a problem booting anything, including Vista.

Hope that helps.

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