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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Multiuser Puppy 4.2.1
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct 2009, 17:00    Post subject:  Multiuser Puppy 4.2.1
Subject description: Revision 3
 

puppy-4.2.1-MULTIUSER-r3.iso - (101 MB)
md5sum - (ff7e5a22b6eecc6db0b5b809278198e4)

MIRROR - courtesy of russoodle
    User: puppy
    Password: linux


Older Versions:
Service Packs (apply spN to rN-1 to get rN):

Gory Details + HOWTO instructions


This is a multiuser version of Puppy 4.2.1. Initially, it should work just like a normal 4.2.1 Puppy - you are automatically logged in as root. However, there are a few new wizards in the Setup section of the menu. One for adding new users. One for changing your password. And one for disabling the automatic login. The idea here is that this could be used as a standard Puppy, without impacting the vast majority who like to be root, while still allowing the few who really have good reasons to not be root to do as they choose with minimum effort. Which also means they stop complaining about how they don't like being root. So it's a win for everybody.

There were a great many changes that had to happen under the surface for this to work nicely. See the above link to read the gory details. I'll just list a summary of the features here:
  • Wizards for adding new users and configuring the autologin feature.
  • Has sudo
  • Users in the "disk" group can mount/unmount partitions.
  • Users in the "audio" group can use audio devices.
  • Users in the "power" group can poweroff and reboot.
  • Users can have a personalized xorg.conf file at /etc/X11/$USER/xorg.conf. (This must be created by hand, as the xorgwizard is root-only.)
  • The Xvesa video wizard will allow user-specific configuration.
  • Has virtual terminals 1-6 configured. X will run on 7.
  • Global /etc/bashrc file.
  • Includes the real shadow utilities (useradd, gpasswd, etc.).


Note: limited users are not able to run PetGet.


To head off a question I'm sure is at the top of a lot of people's minds: No, I will not upgrade this to newer (or older) versions of Puppy. My only goal was to show that this is possible and to document the process for other people to repeat (see the above link to gory details). It is up to whoever else cares enough to take what I've done and apply it to other versions of Puppy. I will fix bugs, of course, if they are bugs with what I've done. More general Puppy bugs are outside the scope of this project. Fixing those would confuse the changes needed for multiuser with the changes needed to fix generic bugs. The idea here is to show how to do it more than to make a good puplet, so I won't fix generic bugs in this. You are of course free to (and encouraged to) make your own implementation that does fix those bugs.


Have fun! Razz

Last updated 2009-11-08

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Last edited by Pizzasgood on Mon 09 Nov 2009, 16:50; edited 18 times in total
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dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2646
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct 2009, 17:33    Post subject:  

Congrats!!! Will download iso tomorrow and posting announce on my blog too. Wink
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dawg

Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 113
Location: still here

PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct 2009, 17:59    Post subject:    

Awesome! I'll try this out as soon as I'm able. Thanks a bunch, Pizzasgood!
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3387
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct 2009, 19:59    Post subject:  

Not my bag but as usual you show consideration
for others.

And apply your talents accordingly.

Might even post this in Whirlpool...for the multi user moaners.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/


Regards Chris.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct 2009, 21:04    Post subject: milestone  

Another milestone in Puppy Linux, and done by the youngest (but senior!) developer of Puppy Linux. Thanks, PG.

Now in the news: http://puppylinux.org/news/puplets/puppy421multiuseriso/

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct 2009, 12:28    Post subject:  

this is impressive and does take puppy to a new level.
still not quite sure why multiple encrypted pupsaves was not sufficient to be considered multiuser though.

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct 2009, 14:59    Post subject:  

Encryption is good for privacy. It does not address permissions. If I let somebody use my computer for a bit, and am relying on separate save files to protect me, nothing would stop the other person from deleting my file, whether by accident or on purpose.

If I instead log out and log back in as a different user who has no permission to access the drives, then it's a completely different situation.

Also, logging out and in is faster than rebooting.


Separate savefiles are best when all users are trusted, because that way every user can have root permissions and his own uniquely configured OS. But when untrusted users are involved, the more conventional user system works better.

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct 2009, 15:31    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
Encryption is good for privacy. It does not address permissions. If I let somebody use my computer for a bit, and am relying on separate save files to protect me, nothing would stop the other person from deleting my file, whether by accident or on purpose.

If I instead log out and log back in as a different user who has no permission to access the drives, then it's a completely different situation.

Also, logging out and in is faster than rebooting.


Separate savefiles are best when all users are trusted, because that way every user can have root permissions and his own uniquely configured OS. But when untrusted users are involved, the more conventional user system works better.

hmm ok, but there is no need to leave your pupaves on the computer. who hasnt got or doesnt carry their own usb flashdrive in this world? and then if you have the pupsaves on your flash drive why not your own preferred puppy as well on the flashdrive.
my impression was that the opposition was grasping at straws and thats why they leveled this not multiuser accusation at puppy.

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct 2009, 15:59    Post subject:  

Not everybody uses a computer in the same way. My lifestyle is not compatible with living out of a flash drive. Maybe when a 500 GB flash drive costs $20 and has a speed comparable to a quality SATA drive. But that's still a few years away.


Part of the reason for their argument is just that they don't stop to think about what being root in Puppy really entails. In most distros it's a lot more painful to reinstall the OS than Puppy.

I personally prefer being root, but I do feel that Puppy should at least offer the choice so long as it has no harmful impact on the majority, which it doesn't. There are valid reason to need limited users. Even if it's just one limited user so that you can run a public kiosk with somewhat less risk of it being harmed.

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 05 Oct 2009, 20:05    Post subject: choice  

I guess PG already explained it before, that a Puppy with a (fully operational) multi (added) user feature is better than a Puppy without it. After all, additional choice means progress.

This is a feature that is good to learn and apply to one's Puppy.

As to the use of mobile storage devices for OS and programs, to most users, OS/Programs = hardware/PC.

And to most Linux enthusiasts, OS for ordinary user = non-root user. Muliuser Puppy should win their favor now.

Not to encourage the users' old ways, but to win them over (for their own benefit) until they appreciate the difference.

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superattilius

Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue 06 Oct 2009, 06:20    Post subject: Re: Multiuser Puppy 4.2.1  

Pizzasgood wrote:
puppy-4.2.1-MULTIUSER.iso - (101 MB)
md5sum - (f9f3b5e31335b9a8d935fc790031dae3)

Gory Details + HOWTO instructions


This is a multiuser version of Puppy 4.2.1. Initially, it should work just like a normal 4.2.1 Puppy - you are automatically logged in as root. However, there are a few new wizards in the Setup section of the menu. One for adding new users. One for changing your password. And one for disabling the automatic login. The idea here is that this could be used as a standard Puppy, without impacting the vast majority who like to be root, while still allowing the few who really have good reasons to not be root to do as they choose with minimum effort. Which also means they stop complaining about how they don't like being root. So it's a win for everybody.

There were a great many changes that had to happen under the surface for this to work nicely. See the above link to read the gory details. I'll just list a summary of the features here:
  • Wizards for adding new users and configuring the autologin feature.
  • Users in the "disk" group can mount/unmount partitions.
  • Users in the "audio" group can use audio devices.
  • Users in the "power" group can poweroff and reboot.
  • Users can have a personalized xorg.conf file at /etc/X11/$USER/xorg.conf. (This must be created by hand, as the xorgwizard is root-only.)
  • The Xvesa video wizard will allow user-specific configuration.
  • Has virtual terminals 1-6 configured. X will run on 7.
  • Global /etc/bashrc file.
  • Includes the real shadow utilities (useradd, gpasswd, etc.).


Note: Although users in the "disk" group can mount/unmount partitions, they still don't get the desktop icons. However, I have things set up to automatically configure /etc/fstab, which means that you can simply go into /mnt/ and click on the mountpoints you want, and ROX-Filer will automatically mount them for you, and optionally unmount them when you exit. You can of course drag these to the desktop and set their icons and such. So this limitation isn't a big deal.

Also, limited users are not able to run fixmenus and PetGet.


To head of a question I'm sure is at the top of a lot of people's minds: No, I will not upgrade this to newer (or older) versions of Puppy. My only goal was to show that this is possible and to document the process for other people to repeat (see the above link to gory details). It is up to whoever else cares enough to take what I've done and apply it to other versions of Puppy. I will fix bugs, of course, if they are bugs with what I've done. More general Puppy bugs are outside the scope of this project. Fixing those would confuse the changes needed for multiuser with the changes needed to fix generic bugs. The idea here is to show how to do it more than to make a good puplet, so I won't fix generic bugs in this. You are of course free to (and encouraged to) make your own implementation that does fix those bugs.


Have fun! Razz




sorry for my english but the link for download don't work

bye superattilius
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trapster


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 1999
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Tue 06 Oct 2009, 07:02    Post subject:  

I can confirm http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com is not loading this morning.
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trapster
Maine, USA

Asus eeepc 1005HA PU1X-BK
Frugal install: Puppeee4.31 + 1.0, Puppy4.10 + Lupu52
Currently using Slacko AND lupu52 w/ fluxbox
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dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2646
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Tue 06 Oct 2009, 07:18    Post subject:  

Working now. At least for me. It wasn't few minutes ago though.
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sneekylinux

Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 65
Location: dorset,uk

PostPosted: Tue 06 Oct 2009, 17:37    Post subject:  

just tried multi user puppy,and it does not want to shut down,it just restarts x,even trying from the terminal.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 06 Oct 2009, 17:44    Post subject:  

The link is working for me right now too. Must have been a hiccup.

Quote:
just tried multi user puppy,and it does not want to shut down,it just restarts x,even trying from the terminal.

Okay. I'll need some more information though:

How are you trying to reboot? As root or as a user?

If a user, is it a member of the "power" group?

Is this the first boot, or have you already created a pup_save.2fs file?

Are you using Xorg or Xvesa?

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