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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
(SOLVED) keyboard layouts x11 lineak etc
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diaeresis

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Wed 16 Sep 2009, 09:10    Post subject:  (SOLVED) keyboard layouts x11 lineak etc
Subject description: trying to modify keyboard
 

So hello, puppy works, it's fast, is good.

BUT

I want to be able to input Estonian characters from my 105 key UK keyboard layout by holding down 'alt gr' and pressing the key of my choice to give me a new letter. ie 'alt gr' + 'a' will give me 'a diaeresis' etc etc.

I managed this last year in xubuntu by modifying the GB keyboard layout in x11. I tried that with puppy and lost all level 3 modifier keys (alt gr or r-alt if you want to be picky) I have tried using the jwm keyboard hotkey gui and it only allows certain actions to be remapped so not much use.

I have checked the inet file that resides somewhere in x11 and it doesn't have the full lineak list of supported keyboards so I figured I would download lineak and see what I could do. Being a little unused to linux I have no idea how to make lineak run and give me the nice little gui that they show on the site pages. I now have a lot of unextracted files in a folder in my downloads folder and no idea what they are for. (say what you like about windows an .exe file is point and click heaven, and on the subject of windows, remapping the keys was very simple using auto hotkeys which was a breeze to install, run and configure) But puppy is soooooo much faster. So I would like to make it work.

Do I need lineak ? And if I do can anyone explain in 'how to teach your aunt linux' terms what I need to do to make it run.

Is there some way of just adding my required level 3 actions to the keyboard layout of my choice and getting puppy to use it?

Am I being ever so slightly stupid here?

And no using the GB international 'dead key' layout is not acceptable. It sucks when you are trying to type fast. And trying to flick between Estonian and GB keyboard layouts wont work either because Estonian keyboards have extra keys on them. Which my keyboard doesn't.

Any help, advice or large sums in untraceable bills gratefully accepted.

Thanks

edit: using a cd to boot with and a save file on the harddrive. The save file on the hard drive contains the x11 file I tried to modify. I also tried re-saving the GB file with a new name, making the additions and setting the x11 conf to point to this new file

ection "InputDevice"
Identifier "Keyboard0"
Driver "kbd"
Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
Option "XkbLayout" "gb" #xkeymap0
EndSection

where "gb" was changed for my new file.
Which also resulted in me losing all level 3 switch keys.

Last edited by diaeresis on Tue 22 Sep 2009, 06:49; edited 1 time in total
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diaeresis

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep 2009, 06:08    Post subject:  

.xmodmap then. odd that google gives better results than the forum search but we live and learn.
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diaeresis

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep 2009, 09:14    Post subject:  

hmm well creating a folder in /root called .Xmodmap ala these instructions http://www.puppylinux.org/?q=manuals/puppy-40/english/how-set-your-hardware/keyboard-layout
didn't work either.
So anyone?
Please?
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep 2009, 22:44    Post subject:  

I'm quite lost by most of your post - I hadn't even heard of lineak, but it seems to be for multimedia keyboards - I normally tell people to install sven (search the forum) for that.

There is something that I don't understand about xmodmap, which may possibly help... I've found there is one mapping that I use that doesn't work if I just add it to ~/.Xmodmap - I also need to run an appropriate xmodmap command to map it after X starts... I can't figure out why. Have you tried doing this?

I do agree that dead keys are pretty hopeless - I use a compose key, but I have no idea how easy it is to enter Estonian characters using a compose key Smile

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diaeresis

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2009, 17:53    Post subject:  

Hi, thanks for a response.
Lineak is for multimedia keyboards. I was thinking about trying to get the volume buttons working on this one but REALLY want to get the letter keys working my way first.
I am not sure whether I have tried an appropriate command or not Embarassed
I have followed the instructions in the link I gave about Xmodmap and the last part of that could be the command you are refering too? maybe?
I can't remember what it was now and trying to get back to the right page by copy pasting the link is just taking me to the front page of the puppy wiki which is odd.
Could you elaborate on the appropriate command bit a little Confused because to be quiet honest with you i wouldn't know what an appropriate command was if it jumped out of a sandwich at me Very Happy

I have tried renaming the gb symbols file to gbold and naming my new file (which is gb symbols but with some additions) gb. This just gave me no level 3 keys (ie alt gr +key) changing everything back gave me the level 3 keys back. I have added the new symbols file to x11 rules, changed xconf and got nowhere.

I am sure that I am not doing something really simple but what?

I have also tried typing "setxkbmap -symbols <my file here>" into the terminal and got the message error loading symbols file or something similar. Which was really helpful.

An ++out of cheese++ error would be nice. That i could deal with by opening the fridge and cramming a chunk into one of the cd drives. Very Happy
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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1570
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2009, 18:22    Post subject:  

Hello diaeresis

Please forgive me if i do not quite understand what it is you are trying to achieve,
but i got to messing around and have been able to configure xorg thus:

Code:

Section "InputDevice"
   Identifier  "Keyboard0"
   Driver      "kbd"
   Option      "XkbRules" "xorg"
   Option      "XkbModel" "pc105"
   Option      "XkbLayout" "gb,ee" #xkeymap0
   Option     "XkbOptions"   "grp:alt_shift_toggle"
EndSection


That allows me to toggle between the gb and estonian keyboard layouts
by simultaneously pressing Alt + Shift

OK the keys are all a bit strange (to me at least), but the following link may help:
http://ascii-table.com/keyboard.php/454


CatDude
.

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2009, 19:18    Post subject:  

No, they said that was no good because they don't have an estonian keyboard.
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2009, 19:41    Post subject:  

No, I meant running an xmodmap command to directly map a key, rather than to map keys defined in a file e.g. ~/.Xmodmap. I imagine this is usually only used because it is more convenient when you are experimenting with mapping a key.

Coincidentally, the mapping I was talking about was for making the Print Screen button a Multi_key, which is also known as the Compose key. I run this:
Code:
xmodmap -e 'keycode 111 = Multi_key  Multi_key  Multi_key  Multi_key'

Then I can press Compose ` a to make a à,
Compose ~ a to make a ã
Compose a e to make a æ
Compose ^ a to make a â,
etc.
Note that the keys are pressed one after the other, not all at once. You may want to Google to see what keys to press to make the Estonian characters Smile

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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1570
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2009, 06:00    Post subject:  

Hello disciple

disciple wrote:
No, they said that was no good because they don't have an estonian keyboard.

Neither do i,
but i can get ALL of the characters that are shown on the keyboard layout in the link i provided,
EXCEPT for the > and < in fact i have not found them on any key. Rolling Eyes

Out of interest, when you say
disciple wrote:

Coincidentally, the mapping I was talking about was for making the Print Screen button a Multi_key, which is also known as the Compose key.

does that mean that for the Compose key
you do Shift + Prt Scr then whatever characters ?


CatDude
.

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2009, 17:44    Post subject:  

Oh, right.

No, I don't need to press Shift.

BTW The reason I repeat "Multi_key" four times in the command though is so that it still works when the different modifier keys are pressed as well.

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diaeresis

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sun 20 Sep 2009, 16:46    Post subject:  

Ok, you two guys or gals are actually being quite helpful so don't go away just yet!
Sorry I am not responding very quickly but I don't get to play around on the computer until both of the small bundles of energy which brighten my days are sleeping by which time I am usually a shattered nervous wreck!

Catdude your suggestion did exactly what it says on the tin which is usable but a bit clunky, using dead keys would be as efficient. I couldn't find s caron or z caron but probably wasn't looking hard enough. a,o,u diaeresis appeared as did o tilde. It would be an almost acceptable solution if it wasn't for the fact that all the kepyboard symbols are in different places! Gets a bit complicated when you go for ? and get ² or something like that! Very Happy

Disciple, I see what you are getting at with the command line bit. Unfortunantly i seem to have trashed the.Xmodmap file that i saved to root when I couldn't get it too work. Stupid as it was the result of mapping every key on my board using xev. I shall do it again and try the command line or terminal command you show.

But in the meantime I tried your command on the 'u' key and got exactly what I have been getting with every other method I have been trying. No level 3 shift at all. ie I get u on the key, shift u gives U, alt gr gives nothing and alt gr shift gives nothing.
So either alt gr is not ISO_Level3_Shift or udiaeresis etc are not the right names.

So
My next step is to: double check the names of the characters I am trying to generate. If they are correct then I need to bang my head against a wall. I could also try the symbol or character number rather than name and see what happens.

Disciple, your Compose setup is basically a dead key setup which I do already have but it is not as quick or efficient as just holding alt gr and hitting the letter in question to give the correct character.

As an aside if I use the print flags with xmodmap where will it print to? Or to ask that another way how do I get the printed output to be a text file in 'my documents'
Also, and I am sorry if this is blatantly obvious, how do I stop and start x from the terminal? Rather than going to menu-shutdown-advanced-restart x server.
I am working through the unix tutorials in the newbies help resources sticky but I am not very far with that yet!

just played with this command in the terminal while running xev

xmodmap -e 'keycode 30 = u U udiaeresis Udiaeresis'

this gives me this in xev
......keycode 30 (0x0, NoSymbol)

if i try the keyboard layout ee pressing the key assigned to ü gives me udiaeresis in xev, so I HAVE got the name right and the number 0xfc.

but trying xmodmap -e 'keycode 30 = u U 0xfc 0xfc' gives me no symbol again in xev.
I'm confused.
trying u U rightarrow leftarrow just for kicks also gives me u U and nosymbol twice.
So trying to change a character key doesn't seem to work. Why?
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 20 Sep 2009, 23:41    Post subject:  

Quote:
Disciple, your Compose setup is basically a dead key setup which I do already have but it is not as quick or efficient as just holding alt gr and hitting the letter in question to give the correct character.

Well, it's similar to a dead key setup... but now I remember: I think it is better than dead keys because it doesn't make it slower to enter normal keys. But it is slow to enter the special characters, so isn't very good if you're using them all the time.

Quote:
As an aside if I use the print flags with xmodmap where will it print to? Or to ask that another way how do I get the printed output to be a text file in 'my documents'

It prints to the stdout or something. So if you run the command in a terminal it prints in the terminal.
You should be able to add
Code:
>/path/to/some/file.txt
after the end of the command to print to a file.
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep 2009, 03:39    Post subject:  

Just in case it's unclear to anyone reading this thread exactly what diaeresis wants to achieve, it's essentially this:
Creating custom keyboard layouts for X11 using XKB

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep 2009, 03:42    Post subject:  

I think you should get rid of all xmodmap stuff and try to get it working with only a custom keyboard map file - or is that what you were originally doing?
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep 2009, 04:35    Post subject:  

Could you clarify your original problem?
I think it was that when you tried to set up your custom mappings to work with the Alt-Gr key, the Alt-Gr key stopped working. Is that right?

I noticed when I tried the de-pl custom keyboard layout (from the link I posted above) that Alt-Gr didn't work... then I deleted ~/.Xmodmap and restarted X and it worked... so the xmodmap mappings were stuffing it up somehow.

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