Puppy 4.4 'Woofy'

[panzerpuppy]

Here's the essential stuff that should be included in Puppy 4.4:

- Upgrade ALSA to 1.0.21a (loads of bugfixes for every sound chip out there,new drivers for laptop / HDA chips and [at last] SoundBlaster X-Fi support)

- Upgrade X.Org to 7.4 (or 7.5) so we can finally install / use Catalyst drivers for ATI cards
(Catalyst 9.9 and all later drivers [i.e. 9.10 beta] require X.Org 7.4 as a minimum)

- Tcl + Tk packages (needed for all those wonderful Tk apps)

- HTop

- Streamtuner

- Galculator

- Transmission

- AdBlock Plus and NoScript instead of the old and useless Adblock

- Maybe Opera 10.10 (or SeaMonkey 2.0) instead of SeaMonkey 1.1.18

- RemaX

- Upgrade Aqualung to the latest SVN version

- Xarchiver



-------------------
panzerpuppy

[DaveS]

Anybody else getting this when they try to access forum pages from the index or page number links?

[SouthPaws]

Yeah... DaveS I'm getting the same thing
but not on everything...

I'm presently viewing through firefox 3.0.14

[DaveS]

Firefox 3.5.2 and Seamonkey 1.1.18 cant seem to handle it. All other web sites in my bookmarks are ok though, including the notorious BBC iplayer........

[aarf]

i am getting the crapola at the top of forum posts only.

i dont know why i have to stick my nose into this but technosarus has also stated a desire/availability to coordinate if i recall correctly. perhaps a separate thread for candidates to self or receive nomination then a vote with override /weight factor for votes from heavy weights-vested interests.

nice graphic by the way

[aarf]

separate thread for crapola here

[Ray MK]

Hi
Agree with panzerpuppy's thoughts and 01micko's - the goodies should be there only if Puppy can be kept lean, mean and fast.

Browser's - Opera10 1st choice then Seamonkey2.

SFS load / unload - on the fly - just like ChoicePup, would be very nice.

Very best regards - Ray

[linuxcbon]

I dont think TCL is mandatory but optional and GTK should be enough for most GUIs.
Adblock, sometimes it blocks needed content.
I prefer firefox.

[James C]

Firefox 3.5.3 and newest Flash.......this combo works fine in the latest Beta.

[ecomoney]

From my studies on our "Linux Newbies", the following usability issues need addressing to allow Puppy Linux to become accessible/useful to more people.

Puppy Linux Mission Statement:

1. Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media
2. Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes
3. Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
4. Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast
5. Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use
6. Puppy will just work, no hassles
7. Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs

Issues Discovered

The following usability issues have been discovered through testing at The Mission....each issue is listed against the Mission objective number to which it applies.

Objective 3,6 - Graphic Setup is over-complex
The initial xorgwizard setup was found to be too intimidating and complex to new linux users. Defaults "just work" in the majority of cases, especially when the monitor type is detected. A proposed solution is here...

Objective 5 - Puppy is Lacking enough Communication/IM Apps
Increasingly, computers are being used as a communications tool. Puppy lacks dedicated applications for communicating via skype/msn/yahoo/facebook IM. No webcam drivers are installed by default on standard puppy either.

Objective 3, 6 - Accessing peripheral data
When inserting USB Pendrives, CD/DVD's Puppy does not prompt the user for actions to be taken (Open, View, Play, Copy etc). It assumes prior knowledge of Linux Mounting theory which linux newbies do not have, or knowledge of mounting tools such as pDrive/pMount/MUT. This issue is being addressed in part here...

Objective 3, 6 - Ethernet Connectivity
Puppy does not automatically recognise wired ethernet connections (by far the most common type) and connect like other OS's/Distros. It requires the user to be aware of and use the complex internet connection wizard. Opening a browser before this is completed gives "page cannot be displayed", with no explanation to the user as to what the problem may be, or how to remedy the situation. This is being addressed here...

I would also like to draw the 4.4ce projects attention to two other projects to do with Puppies "prime directive"...to install easily.

The first one by members Crash/rcrsn51 to be able to install puppy as the only OS on a computer to old to run a currently supported Windows (i.e. recycle it into a usable item) in under ten minutes (with GRUB autoconfiguration)...

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42660

And also a windows installer for puppy linux by seeker ...which automatically sets up a dual boot with the existing windows, without reformatting.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=44098

Focusing on hardware support/technical aspects, will only help a limited set of people who possess this newer hardware. . Actual usability enhancements have the potential to be of benefit to much more, i.e. get them online using older recycled kit.

[ttuuxxx]

At this point I think I'll be too busy building "Puppy Linux 2.20" to help out with the compiling.
2.20 is basically a woof build of 2.18 with major updates. But I can offer some ideas.
latest Gtk,Glib,Pango,Cairo,Atk. Previous Gtk has issues, the latest cutting edge version is much better.
We've done jwm/icewm maybe its time for xfce with rox? That would be nice, Thunar is just too thunar, lol
If not then at least have 24x24 menu icons all around
ttuuxxx

[dogone]

I'd prefer to see this thread tee off with the following working hypothesis:

"Puppy 4.4CE will be superior to Puppy 4.3 and any other Puppy derivative in the following respects:"

Everyone simply promoting their favorites apps and utilities will not a great Puppy release make. There has to be a central, well defined "reason" for 4.4's existence. What makes 4.4CE imperative? What must the Puppy community have that is not offered in 4.3 or by another existing Puppy derivative?

These questions really need to be addressed BEFORE a 4.4CE project is kicked off.

[Patriot]

Hmmm .....

From my studies on our "Linux Newbies" ..........

Dear God Almighty ..... please save me from this never ending propaganda ... with famine and aggression occurring daily in many world regions, will linux for newbies save all these affected lives ?

( Why are these so-called "issues" are not being directed to our benevolent dictator who has the power to do so since recently ? )

I hereby nominate myself TO NOT coordinate puppy 4.4CE ..... Amen ...

I humbly apologize for my lame and lacking sense of direction in this thread ...

Rgds

[ttuuxxx]

I nominate Patriot as the next coordinator sorry Patriot I just couldn't stop myself
ttuuxxx lol

[ttuuxxx]

If you think about if Patriot was the next leader of 4.4 it could make some real good reading entrainment
better yet see below, LOL

[James C]

You misspelled "titans".

Know what you mean though........

[ttuuxxx]

fixed lol thanks, damn typos no wonder why I have so many tt's uu's xxx's in the word tux, lol
ttuuxxx

[01micko]

Well said Patriot! (I know your not joking but it is mildly amusing).

Ecomoney, all these "issues" will be addressed in due course I'm sure.

Dogone, you have some great points there, that is, there must be a point to 440. Let's see how 430 goes first eh?

ttuuxxxxxxx, (er typo?)

[technosaurus]

@ttuuxxx - I have already started recompiling the basic libraries in 4.3b in order to build the next stable releases of gnumeric and abiword (and to test development builds). I may rethink using the latest stable builds and use the ones that you are using in 2.X so that packages can be somewhat interchangeable. I made and installed them without even having to reboot (I even deleted the old and restarted X - working great so far)

On the plus side, I have been able to build most of it with a net decrease in size ~1MB so far. Statically linking libraries that are only used by one binary also saves close to 1MB thus far (this is somewhat difficult to track, so I made a script that uses ldd and sort to make it easier). Also using rdfind on /usr in 4.3b yields another 1/2 MB (mostly images, fonts and timezone info).

Would it be too much to ask, to have packagers move these files (images, fonts, etc...) to a specified directory and make a symlink? This applies to themes as well - it would be faster smaller and easier if a symlink was changed rather than actually copying the entire contents.

@dynamic sfs loader advocates - I agree - Choicepup is pretty sweet

As for browsers, the demo browser (basically arora) in QT-4.5.2 has been the best so far as size vs speed vs functionality (yes it plays flash and media files) For the less than the size of seamonkey we would have the ability to add some excellent QT based apps (same goes for Opera there I guess - it's a bit bigger but you also get mail, torrent and an easy web server)

FYI Here's the list of packages that I am currently running (recompiled) on 4.3b:
aqualung-0.9beta10+svn atk-1.26.0 ayttm-0.6.0 cairo-1.8.8 geany-0.18 glib-2.20.5 gtk+-2.16.6 lame-398-2 libpng-1.2.40 mtpaint-3.31 notecase-1.9.8 osmo-0.2.8 pango-1.25.6 sweep-0.9.1 xz-4.999.9beta zlib-1.2.3 and attempted cups-1.4.1(no printer to test with though prints to pdf ok)

p.s. I am updating my Pcompile gui to automatically set CFLAGS CXXFLAGS and LDFLAGS for smaller faster packages. Look for it shortly after the 4.3 release.

@ecomoney - patches are always welcome
Most of the driver issues can be answered by community released zdrv files

[ttuuxxx]

@ttuuxxx
FYI Here's the list of packages that I am currently running (recompiled) on 4.3b:
aqualung-0.9beta10+svn atk-1.26.0 ayttm-0.6.0 cairo-1.8.8 geany-0.18 glib-2.20.5 gtk+-2.16.6 lame-398-2 libpng-1.2.40 mtpaint-3.31 notecase-1.9.8 osmo-0.2.8 pango-1.25.6 sweep-0.9.1 xz-4.999.9beta zlib-1.2.3 and attempted cups-1.4.1(no printer to test with though prints to pdf ok)

whats the size of your Geany-0.18 package? lately they've been in the 700kb pet area, where as Geany-0.12 was in the 500KB area. 200KB compressed is a good saving, plus Geany 12 was/is stable. i might be switching to codebrowser for 2.20 at around 180kb pet, it really does save a lot of space and has a lot of features, I just would like to see it with a close tab "x" on each tab or one main "x" to close the visible tab, to close a tab on codebrowser you have to either rt click on the document and select close or click window,click close tab. No really that user friendly for closing pages
ttuuxxx