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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
The Puppy Logo...
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Leon

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 228
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 08:36    Post subject:  

From my opinion the picture of the doggy is nice and simple as Puppy is.
I agree with the opinion that text is not necessary. In fact it is a unconvincing part of the logo.
But the dog with the flower in its mouth seems to me a bit destructive, what from my experience Puppy isn't.
The picture of the doggy just like as it is, without text and flower would be enough.
Less is more. Just like Puppy.
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deshlab


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 82
Location: oldenburg, germany

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 11:04    Post subject:  

David, just to say this again: although the discussion here is about potential changes (improvements?) of your design, you did a damn fine job there and a great service for Puppy. (Don't get the impression it's not wanted or something. )
-
Shocked the image could be perceived offensive (destructive) when you take the dog as the carnivorous canine who has murdered the flower not because of need but just for fun.

Maybe though he just picked it up from the ground dead already and not rooted it out himself. Maybe he wants ro return it, maybe even try to heal it? Or maybe the original puppy wanted to help BarryK with the gardenwork.

let's have the original picture here, as a reminder:

this is partly serious: is there someone around with maybe a psychology degree who could comment on the potential connotations of the dog/flower symbolism?

personally I think the flower is important mainly as a reference. the current logo dog would also look even more sad if you took away his flowers.

about the text in the logo: I think both versions should be around. On the puppy pages, where it says "PUPPY LINUX" all the time anyway, we could use the dog image alone, for distrowatch and similar we could have the dog plus text.

now that I look at the picture with the flower in focus, I think that maybe the shape of the flower stem (bend down line) is part of why the whole puppy looks sad to me. if you take the picture more abstract, it's a face with a large sad mouth at the bottom.

of course a flower bend upwards would seem unnatural, but maybe an 'S'-shape or something would be possible?
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deshlab


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 82
Location: oldenburg, germany

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 12:32    Post subject:  

about lobster's idea, the flower type -
Arrow why don't we copy the popuplar google style here and variate the logo from time to time?

we could have puppy dog + flower as the general logo idea and change the type of flower with each each full release. would require only a change in the flower's bloom part and the rest would stay the same.

this might also introduce a new puppy nickname system, accompanied by a visible component: puppy rose (2.00), puppy tulip (2.01), puppy cactus (2.01 april-1st-edition).. you get my idea?
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PaleSeptember

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 7
Location: University of Newcastle

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 20:02    Post subject:  

This is just my two cents worth, but....

Firstly, quickly looking through distrowatch, the vast majority of distributions have their name as part of the logo. I know that Puppy is unique, of course, but the casual viewer should be able to immediately associate the brand 'Puppy Linux' with the logo. And I think that the words look good framing the puppy top and bottom.

And the other thing was, my first reaction to seeing the puppy with the flower in his (or her) mouth was that the puppy was offering the flower with affection. I would never have thought of destruction, and even now it's been mentioned, I can't reconcile the look indicated by the eyes (soulful? loving?) with destruction.

Anyhow, just my two cents. I think the words help with brand/image association, and that the flower helps the puppy look adorable.

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dewdrop


Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 298
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 20:47    Post subject: Puppy Logo  

Much of the discussion to date, has centered around the eyes and how or what they communicate.

Another theme has been the flower and what it symbolizes or how it could be used to designate version number, etc.

Text and/or lack of it, in combination with symbol is a 3rd theme

Any other themes jump out at anyone?

I think the end result of the discussion will really be neat, and I am looking forward to what it will be.

Dewdrop
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kcin

Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Oakland CA

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 22:06    Post subject:  

Hello to all,

I've been following the this thread with great interest for these past several days, and have been delighted by the interest many others have taken as well. It has been great to see all the different "takes" people have on a Logo for Puppy.

Much of the conversation has centered around David May's recently submitted Puppy Logo, which, although I feel it has great potential, I also feel it is in need of some tweaking before becoming the official symbol for Puppy. (I detailed my reservations in a previous post).

I decided to revisit Barry's page about the original Puppy, to refresh my memory about what he had said there.

Here are his words copied direct from that page: (bold underline emphasis mine)


Quote:
Aah, those got removed, out of sadness.
One morning Puppy had simply disappeared. We were at my countryside-retreat, and he has a little doggy-door (a cat-door actually) so he can go outside if nature calls. One morning I woke up and he was gone. Isolated spot, maybe a wild animal got him.

He's still the mascot for Puppy Linux though. ...it's kind of a momento to him.

So, maybe I'll put some photos back.

There's one thing that little dog taught me. He is only a Chihuahua, always had to be on guard not to step on him, but he had something about him that educated me. Mostly his simplicity, just some little thing made him extremely happy, like just a pat on the head, and most of all his total devotion ...quite unreal that.

So, tiny, simple, fast (he ran like you wouldn't believe), the perfect mascot for Puppy Linux.


After rereading that, I have to wonder about substituting any image of any other Puppy as the Official Puppy Logo and Mascot.

Of course, there is certainly always room for wonderful new contributions to the growing body of Puppy Artwork. I myself am partiularly fond of the closeup of the doe-eyed Puppy from the infamous "Peach" release. I've used a scaled-down version of that Puppy on a couple of different wallpapers posted on PuppyLinux.org.

But I am having reservations about supplanting the "Real Puppy" with any other photo or drawing of any other dog.

Of course, the last word on that should be Barry's. But I wanted to step up to the plate and speak up in favor of honoring the "Real Puppy's" memory,

After all, he was the one and only real "Original" Puppy.

And the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see him kept on as the Puppy Logo in perpetuity, as a tribute to the inspiration he provided to Barry to name Puppy after him in the first place.


Best Regards to all,

kcin
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 22:24    Post subject:  

PaleSeptember wrote:
. . . and that the flower helps the puppy look adorable.


As a retired alchemist I know a little about symbology as will our resident fraternity of ritualists.

From the perspective of yub-yum, heiros gamos, yin/yang heaven/earth and so on, it combines the essential attributes of:

masculine - dog
feminine - flower

in a perfect and complete combination

woof woof

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jcoder24


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 601
Location: Barbados

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 22:39    Post subject:  

kcin wrote:
After rereading that, I have to wonder about substituting any image of any other Puppy as the Official Puppy Logo and Mascot.


How about an outline sketch of the real puppy?

I had seen the logo for PLD (see below).


Source Link
and thought something like that would make a good logo and desktop wallpaper watermark (at least for my personal/demo puppy) if it can be simplified enough. The image that I thought would be most suitable for it is the boot splash screen.

BTW. The logo by David is great. I like the idea of the one without the words.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2006, 23:26    Post subject:  

Personally, I think that only the real Puppy should be used in photos, but in drawings others are acceptable. But that's me, not Barry.

As for the dead flower symbolizing destruction, even I wouldn't think of that (unless I wanted to make the puppy evil), and I'm mister "No food with a leaf on it! Plant's are the world's most pure organisms!" (I don't seriously boycott plants, but I believe the second part whole heartedly)

I like the idea of varying the flower. The font could change every now and then too.


As for the eyes, if David is fine with them, that's good enough for me. Maybe a slight variation of the shape would make them happier. I know what you mean about looking like a stuffed dog, though. When I was a (very) wee lad, I had a stuffed puppy named Browny. That puppy reminds me of him, but Browny had even more sad eyes.

They don't neccessarily look sad, though. They can also look like they're begging you to use Puppy.

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Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2006, 00:10    Post subject: Flower for Peace  

Not only is the flower feminine, it is also a symbol of peace - its offering, actually. In the 1986 historic day of people power in the Philippines, citizens offered flowers to soldiers, whose knees literally buckled to the selfless gesture.
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kcin

Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Oakland CA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2006, 00:43    Post subject:  

I think the picture of Puppy with the flower in his mouth is a classic. The look in his eyes is nothing short of sublime; full of quiet confidence, lust and romance... In that photo, Puppy transcends being a mere Chihuahua - he is more the gallant caballero, a miniature canine Zorro, ready to do a tango with his sexy Latina mistress, and sweep her off her feet...(all four of them),..or to do battle with any so foolish as to interfere.
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david

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2006, 11:23    Post subject:  

Wow, I don't know what to say. I hope you didn't think I have been absent or neglecting. Quite the contrary, I have been following this thread with great joy several times a day. It's really fantastic to see this dialogue evolve as it has. Maybe I'm being a bit emotional, but this community and cooperation is somewhat touching. OK, someone hand me a tissue! No, really though, I'm really amazed by it.

Let me start off by saying that, like kcin, I think the original picture by Barry is key to me as well. That's why, instead of ignoring it, I tried to implement at least part of it into the logo. Now, I know there is more to the picture than the flower, but it serves as a reference nonetheless. I actually did start very early versions of another puppy logo version by trying to trace Barry's picture, but it didn't quite capture the feeling of the original. So I decided to stylize a "general" dog and make reference to the original by using the flower in hopes of capturing the feel of the original picture.

In any case, I haven't been incognito these last days. I have worked feverishly to come up with new, improved versions of the logo - going into the wee hours of the day. However, frustration was building as none of the options really captured the feeling of Barry's original picture very well, if at all. I would leave the computer for a few hours and come back to see if my preferences would change, but looking back at the first logo I have done, I still think it's one of the better ones. I was going to post the work in progress last night, but it got to be too late (especially for a weekday). I will post it in the evening (GMT -6:00) today.

It seems that if people are not fond of my creation as the ideal logo (I would not take offense if that was the case), that another needs to be drafted, starting from scratch. Maybe something that resembles Barry's picture more closely. In it's current form, it's hardly a good image to use (in terms of quality), especially if you were to carry it over to other projects like CD covers/labels, or any large(r) format application. It's just not very portable. Vectorizing and simplifying may be the way to go, if it hasn't been done already (something I will explore more thoroughly as well).

I also like the idea of subtly varying the logo for the stages of a release. In fact, for continuity's sake, I think it would be nice if for any "offspring" release that stems from Puppy, that some key elements of the logo were used along with minor creative additions and changes to tie it all together. It's not imperative of course - just an idea.

And Barry's idea of having the logo without text is valid also. However, for a logo to become recognizable for a product, it takes time. Take the famous example of NIKE. They always used to advertise with the type in the logo and slowly faded it out as the brand became more recognizable. I don't think Puppy is there yet, but it's definately an option to keep in mind for the future.

Enough "babbling", look for a post (with image) later today. Sorry for not updating you earlier - but keep discussing! We'll get to a solution eventually.

David
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deshlab


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 82
Location: oldenburg, germany

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2006, 12:08    Post subject:  

what?? you think puppy is not as famous and recognized as Nike? where have you been living Laughing

your thoughts about the need of a simplified (and vectorized=resizable) logo are right - and to continue the puppy-nike comparison:

Once there is a stylish, yet true-to-the-puppy logo - we can have puppy linux merchandise! t-shirts, cups, umbrellas, stickers, buttons, mouse pads,... hmm, maybe a new bag for my laptop would be nice..

capitalism - yay!
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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan 2006, 02:22    Post subject:  

I've got a text free version of David's logo up at grafpup.com. Trying to keep the parentage apparent.

Nathan
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david

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan 2006, 02:37    Post subject:  

deshlab, of course, everyone will want one of each Wink

Well, I finally "finished" the most recent touch-ups (a.k.a. the eye study), but as I had mentioned already, I think the hope of finding the right version - at least from me - is fading. I did include the first logo I created as a reminder of where these are originated from. Even though the solution is probably not included, I thought this could also serve as a reference for people on what has been tried and what to stay away from, etc. If I included everything I tried, I think I would grow tired of uploading images/attachments pretty quickly. At the very least, I hope it is apparent that I took the criticism to heart and at least attempted to come up with a solution.

In the end, I'm still leaning towards the logo I originally created, although I think a couple of these revisions may have potential. The first logo I created originally most closely communicates what the image (by Barry) does, in my opinion. At least more so than these revisions. It was a quite a frustrating process working on these revisions, that got me thinking that I may be imcompetent in accomplishing this task - REALLY capturing the essence of Barry's pic.

Now as you may have noticed, I attempted to trace Barry's original picture one more time in the second attachment. It has been vectorized and simplified as much as I thought was necessary, as you might be able to tell. I will remain quiet and let you decide if it's worth a shot at becoming an offical logo. This would be a "totally" new submission, of course.

We still have options left, of course, including submissions from other people, if so desired.
puppylinux_1.png
 Description   my first logo for reference
 Filesize   38.13 KB
 Viewed   2042 Time(s)

puppylinux_1.png

puppy_experiment.png
 Description   eyes everywhere
 Filesize   112.14 KB
 Viewed   2009 Time(s)

puppy_experiment.png

puppy_experiment2.png
 Description   trace of original pic
 Filesize   51.46 KB
 Viewed   2021 Time(s)

puppy_experiment2.png

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