Is There ONE Web Page For Puppy News and Announcements?

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Fishback
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Is There ONE Web Page For Puppy News and Announcements?

#1 Post by Fishback »

I'm trying to find one web page that contains the latest news, announcements, and development progress for official Puppy releases. Does one, or will one exist?

A quick search turned up the sources listed below, all apparently developer-supported. (There may be more.) The URLs all contain different information.

I found two or three links pointing to the first URL in the list, so it appears the official community wants to use that page for official news. However, when you visit that page it contains info on the latest Puplet releases. Where can I find all of the latest news for current and upcoming official Puppy releases?

- http://puppylinux.org/news/
- http://www.puppylinux.org/home/latest-news (being phased out? if so, why not delete it and redirect requests for this page?)
- http://www.puppylinux.com/news/
- http://www.puppylinux.com/info.htm (links, but no news)
- via Barry's Blog: http://puppylinux.com/blog/?page=1
- via RSS feed: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26588
- via the forums
- via the Wiki (there seems to be loads of buried and orphaned pages there.)
- And, there is yet another official Puppy page that's just getting started. Presumably, there will be news, in addition to the FAQs: http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage?

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prit1
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#2 Post by prit1 »

You can find the latest 15 topics from the following categories:
- Barry's blog - Developer
- Latest posts from this forum
- Latest news from Puppylinux.org site
- Puplets announced on Puppylinux.org

On this link:
http://puppylinux.ca/news/

You can also get a list of RSS feeds on the following page:
http://www.puppylinux.org/community/blo ... eeds-forum
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#3 Post by Fishback »

prit1 - That's very helpful - Thank you very much for providing the URL to the .ca site. I've run across that page before, but couldn't find it when I was writing my post. That's one more web page to add to my list above.

My following comments are not meant to dismiss your post, as it was very much appreciated. However, I want to explain why I don't find that page helpful.

While the .ca page aggregates articles and post headings from the various Puppy pages, it doesn't encapsulate the latest official Puppy news. Here is my take on that page:

http://puppylinux.ca/news/
Barry's Blog - Many of Barry's blogs are aimed at the developers - too technical for the average user. Others (like the current one concerning Wine) concern specific user-oriented problems. However, it is true that an average user can find some excellent info by digging through his blogs and ignoring the technical stuff.

Latest Posts - The forum posts cover an extremely wide range of topics, many not specific to Puppy, and most concern specific issues and problems. True, if you dig through enough posts you can find information relevant to the current status of Puppy development.

Latest News - The items currently showing in this category are pictures (jpg & png) and news on Puplets. There's also a link ('The Puppy Linux News page has moved') to another link to the new News page - which is the first URL in my list above. That web page (and the three following pages) has three or four welcome articles on Puppy Linux and the most recent Beta's, but most of the articles concern Puplets. However, if you sort through the articles there is some truly useful information there.

Puplets - A great place to find info on the latest Puplets, but that's not what I was looking for.

Concerning Puplets
In my comments above I don't mean to denigrate the Puplets, but I have to believe most people are only interested in the official releases. Besides, the Puplets have their own section(s). It also seems that on many Puppy pages the Puplets are getting equal, or top billing to the official releases. I don't understand that decision.

Concerning RSS Feeds
RSS feeds are useful to many folks, but the majority (like me) look for information on the web.

I'm still looking for one web page that contains the latest news, announcements, and development progress for official Puppy releases. If we're not familiar with a particular topic or project, don't we all look for a page like that to get us up to speed quickly, or to keep us updated?

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prit1
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#4 Post by prit1 »

Yes, I agree that Barry's blog can be considered too technical by some. However, this is the most followed and has upto date information on what is going with Puppy's latest releases and stuff.

Puppylinux.org is from the community. The site is being revised now due to performance issues. In the future, http://puppylinux.org/news/ will have the official announcements and news regarding the official releases. General announcement that might interest the community might also be present there. The puplets and screenshots will be available at a different page that will be released in a couple of weeks.
Last edited by prit1 on Wed 26 Aug 2009, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
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#5 Post by Fishback »

prit1 - Thanks for the info! Maybe in time the scattered info and news will be organized and http://puppylinux.org/news will become the consolidated web page I was looking for.

-Fishback

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#6 Post by Lobster »

Where can I find all of the latest news for current and upcoming official Puppy releases?
You can start organizing what you need here:
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/NewsLinks
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Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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#7 Post by Fishback »

Thanks Lobster, but in my opinion the last thing the Puppy community needs is yet one more page of links and/or partial news. The point of my post was - there are already too many 'News' sources, without there being ONE location where news and updates on official releases can be found.

The best I could do is to provide the list of links found in my original post. I can't remove all the extraneous information not having to do official releases. Nor can I force the developers to post news and updates on one page.

It seems to me the answer to fractured or nonexistent information is not to create a web page of links to all the other web pages with fractured or nonexistent information. Especially on an orphaned Wiki page. :shock:

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#8 Post by Lobster »

What solution are you suggesting to the situation?

News is different and takes a different focus
There was a time when there were two news page
Barrys news
and a wiki news page
Is There ONE Web Page For Puppy News and Announcements?
The answer to that is No - as Puppy grows we may find News pages in other languages, Bling News and so on 8)
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#9 Post by Fishback »

Well, for the sake of this thread, let's only address an English version.

Sure, news is different, changes focus, and has differing levels of importance to differing groups. But that doesn't mean news can't be centralized. I'm suggesting that all news be centered on one page so it's easy to find. (As an aside - wouldn't centralizing the news also make it much easier to convert and post in other languages. After all, it would be in one place, in a standardized format.)

At a minimum this proposed news page would have sections for revised older releases, for experimental releases (like ttuuxx's 2.1 revisit), for each of the releases currently under development, and for puplets. Of course there are many ways to organize the info, and each category would probably have its own daughter pages. (Maybe horizontal or vertical tabs could be used to call up each category.) Call it 'Puppy News Central', or something similar.

=====

As for organization... As an outsider (non-developer) I see the Puppy project divided into 5 distinct groups:
1. Current official release (4.21)
2. Older, established official releases (1.08, 2.18, 3.01, 4.12)
3. Experimental official releases (ttuuxx's 2.1 revisit is the only one I can think of. there may be more.)
4. Official releases under development (4.2x, 5.x, Woof)
5. Puplets (too many to count)

Any of these groups that has news would be represented on the news page. The news page would also likely have sections for developer news, Barry's and developer blogs, etc. Some may be simple links, but all of this could be found on one page - or through a couple of clicks to daughter pages (or maybe outside pages, if necessary).

AS an outsider, it would make sense to address each group, both on the news page and on a separate page that provides basic information such as why you may want to try a particular version, the differences between a particular version and its predecessor, etc. That's going beyond the scope of this thread, but it's worth mentioning since the Puppy pages are undergoing reorganization. (Or maybe it's just the Wiki ...?)

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#10 Post by J_Rey »

Thank you for your feedback. See also my response to your comment at http://puppylinux.org/news/home/other-news/.

There are two primary sources of news, from Puppy's creator (Barry) and the community. Where and how that was listed provided has changed over the years. In chronological order (newest first) for each:

Barry's:
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/
http://www.puppylinux.com/news/

Community:
http://puppylinux.org/news/
http://www.puppylinux.org/?q=home/latest-news
http://pupweb.org/wikka/ArchivedNews

The forum has the announcements section which is used in parallel to the other news articles listed above.

Organizing the news is only a portion of the many things useful to support Puppy and derivatives. Information is scattered and it literally could easily be a full-time job keeping up with just documentation and news. So, volunteers welcome.... Just register an account on the new news site to post news there and registration is optional for editing the new wiki site (which needs lots of info from the previous wiki and the original wiki transferred over).

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#11 Post by Fishback »

J_Rey - Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned response. However, it seems to me that you have avoided addressing my comments and have simply explained the status quo. I already knew there were multiple sources of news, with individual articles reported in one or more locations. That's why I started this thread. There may be a perfectly reasonable answer as to why Puppy news and information is scattered around, but that doesn’t mean it has to stay that way.

Before I continue, let me once again say it is not my intention to cause problems or to be disrespectful. Puppy is a great product and I use it every day. And, I have great respect for the full team of developers. That out of the way, I'll continue.

As I’ve written this post, I’ve found it impossible to completely separate the need for one News page, from the topic of general organization of the web pages. In part, that's due to J_Rey asking for wiki volunteers. I apologize, but consider that as you read the following.

Bottom Line - You pointed out in your post there are at least 7 web locations (including the wiki) for Puppy News. That reinforces my assertion that Puppy needs a main News Page. Again, there may be a reason there are 7 different locations where news is posted, but that doesn’t mean it has to stay that way, or that there can’t be one main page. Design it however you want, and call it whatever you want - a news portal, news aggregator, etc. The function will be the same.

The wiki is being reorganized - How will the info in the wiki be organized and accessed? You're asking for volunteers to create and edit even more news pages on the wiki. I'm sorry to say I see that as a pointless exercise, surely leading to an increasing number of confusing pages containing partial information. From what I've seen of the old wiki, many of those pages will be orphaned and virtually useless, no matter how much useful information they contain. Maybe I’ve missed an index, but it seems that unless you already know where you want to go in the wiki, you won’t be able to find specific content by yourself.

As a new user, faced with the scattered information, among other things, I would be wondering:
- Why are there so many domains?
- Why do I have to hit so many different sites just to get caught up on the latest news? (And by the way, I never found a list of all these sites until I started my search and began asking questions. How could a new Puppy user be expected to find all those sites?)
- I have a specific question. I'm bewildered by the myriad of pages and forums. Which location should I visit first to find an answer?
- I read somewhere there are one or more tutorials for beginners. Where can I find them?
- Many of the stickies in the forums seem like they belong in the wiki or on a ‘Tutorials’ or ‘Basics’ web page. Does becoming a sticky mean the content of these posts are embraced by the developers? If so, why aren't they on a web page?
- How do the developers want us to use the forums vs. the wiki? Both contain community-contributed and edited content.

What’s the answer to this problem?
From my perspective, somebody needs to step back and think how an absolutely new Puppy user sees the various sites and how the information is organized. A huge number of corporate projects have failed miserably because what was easy and made perfect sense to the developers was a non-starter for the end-users who had to use the system. While Puppy is not going to ‘fail’, the developers stand a much greater chance of increasing interest in Puppy and of attracting volunteers to the project if the project is well-organized and well-documented.

If we were to gather a focus group of absolutely new Puppy users and let them loose on the various sites, pages and forums, what to you think their comments would be? Actually, their comments are predictable - There’s a wealth of very useful information available, but it seems like someone purposefully made it difficult to find. Trying to find an answer to any one question is like an Easter egg hunt. As a result, I’d wager the VAST majority of Puppy users use the forums exclusively, avoiding all the Puppy pages except for when the forum fails to resolve their immediate problem. That’s a shame, because there IS so much useful information available on the web pages.

Ideally, the Puppy project would snag a web site developer who has experience with medium to large projects – and let this person organize Puppy’s web content. Maybe Puppy already has a contributor with this background, and isn’t listening to him/her.

Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong. :lol:

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#12 Post by prit1 »

@Fishback,

If you can volunteer to contribute the main development and official news for Puppy, then I recommend that you register on the new news site - http://puppylinux.org/news.

The task might involve reading the scattered information available and read Barry's blog and translate the information into a newbie friendly language and post this to the news site. This way, the newbies can find all the latest and official news from one single location.
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#13 Post by Fishback »

@prit1 - Thanks prit1, but I have to decline. In my opinion it makes no sense to devote my time and effort working on just one of already too many news pages.

My observations were NOT that there isn't enough news posted. News content is not the problem. As my posts above tried to explain, organization and easy access to the news content is the problem. I can't think of a way to express the idea more clearly.

Bringing another individual in to copy and paste onto one of too many news pages seems to be a bandaid. It seems to me that creating a main news aggregation page would be much more efficient and useful. That page should easily be able to pull content in, without someone spending their time copying and pasting.

- Fishback

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#14 Post by prit1 »

Here anyone is free to do anything they want to. Anyone can create as many webpages, news sites about Puppy. Nothing will stop this.

If we aggregate all this using an automated aggregator, then its again going to bring some unwanted, repetitive, not-official, newbie-unfriendly and too much technical language. This is pointless in solving the concerns you mentioned.

In my opinion, there needs to be manual involvement to make something that you are suggesting.
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thanks

#15 Post by raffy »

Fishback: Thank you for your thoughts.

Just don't forget that you can be part of the action. :)

I've added you as editor to puppylinux.org/news
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

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#16 Post by Fishback »

prit1 & raffy -
I've simply pointed out the obvious. Puppy's content pages are 'broken'. As an open-source project, I know that new volunteers are always welcome, and needed. But I don't see that asking for new volunteers to add additional content to an already broken system where content is not indexed and cannot be found, as an answer to anything. A larger # of quality non-developer volunteers will join your ranks if they think their efforts are not buried on one of several similar pages, or even worse, buried on an orphaned wiki page.

The many quality developers get immediate satisfaction from their efforts. Those providing and organizing web content - not so much.

Thanks for listening, Lobster, J_Rey, prit1 & raffy. If any of my comments were abrasive, they weren't meant to be. Puppy is a great OS. You and the rest of the Puppy community do a fantastic job with it. Thanks!

- Fishback

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#17 Post by stevoomba »

Fishback, thanks for your comments, it's good to hear how our community looks to a fresh pair of eyes. I agree wholeheartedly with your point that our news and other information is hard to find and spread all over the place. I would like the puppylinux.org front page to have the latest news, downloads (official release, puplets, sfs and pet files) in a few columns, plus a side menu of links to the forum and wiki etc. The Reactos site is a good example of a single front page with good access to resources and info.

Remember that Puppy Linux is meant to be a highly user-driven distro, with the tools to create any version (puplet) that you like and make it instantly available. Also files and information are hosted and linked to in a wide variety of places, maintained by many. Historically this large amount of input by the community has caused the spreading of presence that you've commented on, so in a way that diffusion had been a cost of the great participation ethic of Puppy.

My experience with trying to maintain the puppylinux.org/news page is a good case in point: I'm "terrier" on the Puppylinux.org site (a different name from here, which is more confusion!) and most of the recent items are by me - but I don't really know where to look for items to put there, and even though I look through the "announcements" forum, I know that there's developmental stuff going on that should be on the news page but it's buried in old threads on page 17 or something. It'd take me all day to find all the stuff that's relevant enough for the main news.

Like others have said, your contributions would be welcome...

regards,

Steve

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