Classic Pup 2.14X -- Updated 2 series

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#641 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 03:33

tempestuous wrote: (Also poorly documented contributions). Yes I'm the King of that, I try to document what I've been doing on 2.14X but really I spend so much time on all different areas of it in a day, its next to impossible, on any given day I might compile and install around 20+ programs and test them, out of 20 or so I might upgrade or replace 1, right now my downloads folder and root have a total of 228 folders and that is after I've removed about 40 yesterday and only been running 2.14X for the past 6 days, lol. I did manage to hack/compile libmad with a eq, but it didn't work, xmms would even play a song, lol I tried merging the 2 codes, just the eq section from mpg123 and about 10 other c,h files. Funny that it compiled without error, but still its not good for anything, lol, oh well I tried and thats what matters.

It's not your standpoint which is the issue, it's the way you express that standpoint.

But I express my dislike as dispassionate criticism, not personal comments. tempestuous in the begining I tried to be gentle with my expressions, I informed Ziggy that Pmusic was crippling my system with gtkdialo3, he shrugged it off, I informed Barry on his Blog like a year ago, and nothing, To this day it does the same thing, Then about a week ago Barry announced that Pcd will be a puppy inclusion, and well that pushed me over the edge. Some 'P' products that puppy has are top notch, second to none compared with whats out in the Open Source Linux world, and some are just small in size, buggy, resource hogs.
The other day I came across this small burner called Simple Burn, Its a small but really equipped gtk burner, I would say it would go toe2toe with Pburn and take a heck of a lot less resources to use, also its about 1/2 the size, plus has a simpler Gui, the only issue is that some of code would have to be change to work with puppy's cd/dvd detection/burning backend. I left a note on Barry's blog and also made a thread on here in Projects, and well nothing. I guess resources, stability, size aren't really high on puppies list. Probably better to bring out a new widget. lol Man I wish I had half the talents of some of the developers around here. Maybe I should take a nightschool class in programming or something.

Anyways thanks for respectful response and I'll try not to personally bash Pmusic, even if I still think on a scale of 1-10 for a default mediaplayer for puppy I give it a 1 and 10 being best.
ttuuxxx

#642 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 03:44

Onto the next release, I would like to have XMMS but that 31band eq takes a additional almost 400kb compressed, then if you add the extra weight of XMMS around 600KB, that will increase the next release by 1MB, I'm trying really hard to keep it under 100MB, plus theres new additions like simple mail, Xfce apps, hardware info, gtkhash, updated gparted, and libparted etc.
Maybe we should push the limited to say 105MB max. I don't know what do you others think? How about just add a skin to bmp and a couple of plugins?
ttuuxxx

raffy · #643 Post by **raffy** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 04:34

Hey, zdrv is separate, so at the time of use, we're really talking about the size of pup_214R.sfs, aren't we?

90 MB pup-sfs shall be fine, IMHO, so that sums to as much as 106 MB ISO.

#644 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 04:54

that is a great point raffy I wasn't thinking about it that way, I was just thinking about the iso size itself.

ttuuxxx

mawebb88 · #645 Post by **mawebb88** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 07:11

ttuuxxx wrote:Onto the next release,........... new additions like simple mail, Xfce apps, hardware info, gtkhash, updated gparted, and libparted etc.
ttuuxxx

I still did not see pnethood in this list?

Rgds Mike

#646 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 07:14

mawebb88 wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:Onto the next release,........... new additions like simple mail, Xfce apps, hardware info, gtkhash, updated gparted, and libparted etc.
ttuuxxx
I still did not see pnethood in this list?

Rgds Mike

Thanks mike, its added

anything else did I miss?
ttuuxxx

#647 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 12:42

damn damn damn, The power went out for like 2 mins and I've been doing most of this live, well the compiling and keeping some of the stuff, I was in the middle of putting it all together, what I lost was the new 31 band eq, and updated xfce picture viewer that didn't crash because I removed the preferences and the hack to fix the locales, and the extra packages I compiled and didn't post. about 2 gigs worth, lol
damn damn damn damn. man I'm soooo fit to be tied.
Well I'll let the xfce picture viewer stay the way it is for this release, because I would have to recompile all that xfce stuff, but I'll do the fix , hey I was wondering something anyways it might be a good time to ask

Does anyone of you know C ? The reason I ask is that it would be really nice if on the top Ristretto user panel where it says
“File Edit View Go Help

OlddogNewtricks · #648 Post by **OlddogNewtricks** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 13:48

Well, after a week away there's a bit of catching up to do.

Yes to a better mixer.

Not bothered about which music player but I'd call the XMMS 31 band equalizer technical bling, impressive to look at but how many people would know how to use it properly.

Image viewers :- Don't forget Qiv is already installed, this & Gqview get my vote. Too late now though it seems.

New screenshot utilitiy excellent but only seems to save as png.

Xfburn also excellent, pity it can't handle multisession.

So generally thumbs up with very minor moans.

#649 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 14:21

OlddogNewtricks wrote: So generally thumbs up with very minor moans.

well glad to have ya back

More input the better, sometimes I feel like yelling "Echo, Echo, Echo" in this thread, lol
ttuuxxx

dejan555 · #650 Post by **dejan555** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 15:14

damn, damn, damn, I was so looking forward to see that V5 today with that 31 eq

Ah, what the heck, don't worry about it, I know it was hard work but there will be time to do that

#651 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 18:38

Aaa don't worry about it dejan555, it will be on my high list of things to do after this next release

I managed to reduce Gqview by 30kb compressed and made it look better

Still haven't decided what will be the picture viewer/media player/burner yet, lol
ttuuxxx

also included a locales packages.

OlddogNewtricks · #652 Post by **OlddogNewtricks** » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 20:49

ttuuxxx, I'm a bit puzzeld, your new gqview executable appears to be 63k larger than the original, and apart from the camera picture on start up, the new looks identical to the old.

#653 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 00:54

I was comparing the package size, The icons I changed were these
folder_closed
folder_locked
folder_open
folder_up
gqview_logo

The old package was 14-Apr-2007 16:50 312K
the new package is 283kb

ttuuxxx

esmourguit · #654 Post by **esmourguit** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 06:38

Bonjour à tous,

Hello ttuuxxx,
Except the name, i like very much pornview.

Cordialement

#655 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 07:25

esmourguit wrote:Bonjour à tous,

Hello ttuuxxx,
Except the name, i like very much pornview.

Cordialement

Yes I do to, but I feel bad using it, lol Man what were they thinking about the name when they made that. I also like the size. Could you imagine it being a default viewer in the main puppy release and Barry making some release notes like

Removed Gpicview
Added Pornviewer
lol
ttuuxxx

OlddogNewtricks · #656 Post by **OlddogNewtricks** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 07:52

ttuuxxx wrote:I was comparing the package size, The icons I changed were these
folder_closed
folder_locked
folder_open
folder_up
gqview_logo

The old package was 14-Apr-2007 16:50 312K
the new package is 283kb

ttuuxxx

Fair enough but if I make a pet out of the gqview already installed it comes out at 277k, 6k smaller than yours. I presume the installed version came with the original 214R. Still, if you decide to keep gqview then none of this matters. It's nice to have a choice but sometimes there's too much so just to stir the mix a bit more, have you considered Alsaplayer as a general purpose music player leaving XMMS & all the rest as downloads along with all their extras.

davesurrey · #657 Post by **davesurrey** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 11:33

Hello ttuuxxx,
Was away longer than I thought as my elderly Mother fell ill and I had to take care of everything.

Just read all the new forum stuff and have the following comments FWIW:

1. installed all the pix viewers that you have gathered. Thanks for the choice but it's a tough one. Again, just did a quick look and review.

Gqview is still my favourite as it has a wealth of features, has exif viewer, slideshow, is fast and just works. I believe the newer incarnation geeqie is even better but is only at beta at the mo.

Ristretto is ok but has no exif viewer, seems slow on large images and I have some difficulties (which are non-consistent) in opening some files if the file is hidden. Which has put me off. However I feel you will keep this one so if you can give it a separate slideshow tab that would be helpful.

viewnior is similar to ristretto but no slideshow

gpicview..an old favourite. simple but no slideshow, exif viewer and not very interesting to look at.

pornview.. as you said, it has a pleasing GUI, the slide show is easy to use, but there are few tools. Big issue.. I think it would be unwise to make it part of the standard install due to the name. I'm certainly no prude but I have put Puppy on several PCs/laptops where I know young children have access and IMO it would be inappropriate. But by all means make it a pet for others to choose.

fotoxx ..I have always liked this one. most things there I want plus lots of useful tools; red -eye for example.

My vote is still gqview (or geeqie) followed by fotoxx then ristretto. But of course I only get one vote!

2. hadn't noticed that the new (good looking) screenshot only saves in png. With no tweaks at all I used both current screenshot apps and they gave me files of 40kB (jpg) and 300kB (png) with the latter from the new screenshot prog. That's a shame because it certainly looks good. I guess it's not possible to change the format it saves into??

3. Thanks for the new Gimp. I already had one installed but the new one installs just fine. But not had time to check it out yet.

4. Our favourite subject again!!! MUT and Pmount.
From your jpg it still looks as if MUT will squash the volume label and file format text together. Please see your jpg where for sdc "vfat" and "NO NAME" merge. Did you manage to explain this to Jesse the developer? Is he willing to help fix this?

Whilst with MUT I note that file sizes are in Mb (which internationally means Megabits, not Megabytes). I think it would be best to have MB here.

5. Pmount: it would be great if you can add tabs for the different drives; but if not then I understand. If you do add them then could they be like MUT ie sda, sdb, sdc and not in reverse order as they are in the third picture.

To be honest I am starting to like the green and grey buttons to show mounted or not, but I guess for consistency you need to go with Mount/Unmount as used for MUT.

6. Can't test the equaliser as the audio is not working on this PC at the moment. As someone who has worked in professional TV for many many years and used to lecture in it for perhaps the World's best known broadcaster I can understand what tempestuous means about equalisation being a subtle art. You won't find any tone controls on my main amp.

But... this is Puppy and I imagine there will be many using 214X who don't have pro kit nor even a good hifi connected to their PC/laptop.

In which case a wide ranging equaliser would come in very useful. Perhaps 31 bands is a bit excessive but if that is all there is to offer at this time then I say so be it.

7. I have never seen the logic of strictly adhering to the 100MB limit. I can understand why Barry made that a barrier and agree with his reasoning but if for the sake of a quality app being added it goes a little over then so be it.

But I agree that size-creep from one generation to another would be wrong and it's good to aim for 100MB even if it gets a tad bigger.

Hoping to see x5 soon ??

HTH
Cheers
Dave

#658 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 12:46

Hi dave thanks for report

Here's Gpicview with slideshow, this is one that the puppy user 'HairyWill' added a slide show and options, theres a play button and a configure button where you can specify the time delay etc, he did a pretty good job on it, too bad he's no longer with puppy. The only issue with it is that you can't really have your pictures in /root/ and have a slideshow, lol well thats because it sees the hidden .bmp (music player folder) and thinks its bmp image and tries to load it, lol
but it works fine in any folder and if we change to XMMS then that issue would be gone.
I'm really glad with all the test going on, that's great, its really giving me some hard thoughts about the software inclusion. I must of look at over 100 different photo applications, mostly php web or big libraries (python,QT).
I think I'll put XFCE on hold, I really like the screenshot tool, but like you said,png only, when it should be jpg, Then the image viewer doesn't have exif, and the burner doesn't do multisesson, but I've read somewhere it does, but its not clearly documented. If I can fix even one of those problems, it will be in.
XMMS vs BMP vs AlsaPlayer

XMMS
pros: lots of extra plugins, eq 31 band eq
cons:Larger, eq doesn't work with mad

BMP
Pros: eq works, smaller, some plugins from xmms work,uses winamp or XMMS skins
cons: none really, could be a bit smaller like alsaplayer is

AlsaPlayer
Pros: The smallest out of the bunch, great sound, midi plugins,
Cons: Doesn't use winamp/xmms skins, small amount of plugins.

Conclusion:next release V5, will have BMP and extra plugins, maybe a new skin, Default Image viewer will be Gpicview and I'll also include gqview or fotoxx , The reason why Gpicview as default, simple, its easy to use, has a slideshow, works quick, new users wouldn't be confused with it, I find gqview looks too busy, really Its just a image viewer not a editor what were looking for. Dave if your around you make the call gqview or fotoxx. Both I don't mind, but since gpicview does your exif data stuff and slideshow if you minus those out of gqview it doesn't leave much stuff to offer. Where as fotoxx does have lots of really nice image enhancements.
ttuuxxx

#659 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 13:15

Ooop here's the Gpicview with slideshow. I just repacked Harry's bin in this one, because when I compiled it and stripped the bin, Harry's version was 1/2 the size,lol So better using his.
ttuuxxx

davesurrey · #660 Post by **davesurrey** » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 14:26

Hi ttuuxxx:

1. Okay I can fully understand why you prefer Gpicview as the default viewer. So I just tried HairyWill's version and it's fine as a basic viewer. Also I had files in /root and they caused no problem at all.

But I didn't see any exif viewer? I guess that's no problem for a simple viewer so long as it's included in the more sophisticated one.

My personal opinion hasn't changed that Gqview is my preference but...for the good of the general user I think it may be better to include Fotoxx instead because of the added value (image enhancements) it has and also it seems to have a cleaner interface. I won't mind either way.

2. I agree it may be best to leave the xfce stuff on hold with these few but niggly issues these apps have. A pity though.

3. I do hope the EQ issue with xmms can be fixed as I much prefer it to BMP. But if it's to be BMP could you work some ttuuxxx magic on it and improve the look. The one in X4 really does look a poor little thing IMHO and not worthy of the rest of 214X.

Thanks
Dave

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Classic Pup 2.14X -- Updated 2 series

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