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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
"Yesterday, Once more" We don't have to hurry.
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Fri 15 May 2009, 03:24    Post subject:  "Yesterday, Once more" We don't have to hurry.
Subject description: Let's not forget about old ones. Let's improve them. Polish the old ones
 

After posting I have found this one posted a little earlier(or I haven't noticed)

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42037

Below is my original post.

Satisfaction from creating and achieving something "new" is great
But we don't have to hurry anything. What do we get from announcing Puppy v10? Puppy Maxima? Puppy MX?

Are we competing with other distros? Is this a commercial project?
We already have enough versions to "re-develop".
Version 2.14R (Revisited)is a good example. Good features were back ported to the version. I did hear that version 3 is slackware compatible.
Version 4 is not. SPUP is for utilizing Slackware repository. Someone is making a"new" Slackware compatible with version 4?

Going forward is important but taking care of what already have is also important. You know, you don't have to "re-invent the wheel".

I don't know the word "remodeling" is only used in the US but some of us should maintain and improve the "neo-classics", I think.

The old are bad, the new are good? Then why do we have museums?
I am an old man myself. I don't think it is bad just because it's old.

The old versions have longer testing period than the new ones. If we keep making new ones fast, people wouldn't have time to evaluate and appreciate the old.

MU's NYP02 is still in RC and TurboPup is still in Alpha. It is very good because they are the Puppy folks taking their time to check cafefully before they finally release. Also they experimenting many things.
They are not like MS getting half cooked product rush out the door and making billions of buyers as "Alpha testers".

WE DON'T HAVE TO HURRY ANYTHING. No boss is looking over your shoulder.

Keep going forward but let not forget about old one.
Let's not abandon our old ones.

If the original developer is too busy with his new creations, let others do the maintenance, preservation and re-creating.

Not too long ago, a Korean president ordered military to kill civilians in a city called Gwang Ju because of some conflict.
The incident is similiar to "Waco" incident in Texas but the Korean folks were not crazy or some kind of cult.

That incident became a movie. At the end of movie, a poor lady tells to other folks at home "Please don't forget about us"

Our old versions might say the same.

Old doesn't mean useless. I still lift heavy weight.
Even a single action classic frontier times antique revolver can kill a man. 1911 Colt .45 can shoot as good as new Berettas. AK 47 appeared in 1947. A lot earlier than M16.
But still kills. A well kept classic Corvett can rival today's shinny Corvett.
My wife is as beautiful as those days we were dating at least to me.(she keeps calling me "Grand pa" but it is ok. That's what I am.)

Not everybody needs hollow points, FMJ, Talon bullets. A plain 357 could do the job. Classic 007 supposed to carry PPK not Desert Eagle.

Let's polish the old ones. Let's give them "Yesterday once more"

They don't deserve to disappear from people's memory so quickly.
The most hurt is the original developer. He should give his own creations a longer life span. PuppyLinux is not a perishable goods rotting on the shelves.

The reason I like Puppy in the first place is that it gives longer life to my old PC. XP is OK but get infected and get slowdown soon. I had to get out of Xp and Puppy is cute, fast, stable and speed is siembre mismo.
If new one are hard on the computer specs, that's wrong to Puppy spirit.
I am talking about "Green" PC giving more life to old ones.
The world is changing. Then, someone got to give new life to old versions to keep old computers to march together with the world.

I am the oldest child in my family. But my father didn't stop loving me when he had second and third child. If newer ones are loved and older ones are neglected, it would be misery.
Old ones would be unhappy when new ones come and take all attention away from them.

Every married man has someone at home to keep. Wife. We have a longer memories than the road ahead of us.

I am not saying "stop the show and let's replay" No. not at all. I am saying not all of us have to follow like rats. We are, in reality, individuals.

Keep going while refreshing old ones. That's what I am saying.

If someone says he is renewing, rejuvenating, reshaping, recreating, rebulding old one new, I am all for it.

I also don't mean we should keep old ones too long. Puppy is only 5 years old. Too old one, yes, they got to go. I didn't say anything when my wife throw old treasures(she called "junkies")such as 2 Amiga 500s, Apple IIs, CoCo, Vic, Timex1000(ZX in UK), Commodores, 800, 130XE Ataries.
She wants to keep the house for people not for dead old monsters.
And she said "I shouldn't live in the past" Thank God she didn't rip my old photos with other girls.

Somethings gotta go but somethings gotta a stay a little longer with us.

We don't have to hurry to throw things away too soon.

John S

Last edited by puppyiso on Sat 16 May 2009, 21:09; edited 1 time in total
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legendofthor

Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 219
Location: Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 09:57    Post subject:  

Hear! Hear!
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 10:56    Post subject:  

I agree, I'm working on something that most retro puppies user will like.
4 series is a lost cause, unless we update the backend, Its hard to compile these days with it, The compiler is outdated, the gtk has bugs, and a few other parts need some tlc.
3 series now thats worth revisiting, Slackware hardly has updated much even 12.2 its all that different to 12.0 (puppy 3 series)
2 series well thats really for older hardware, That needs a lot of tlc.

really the older releases need the kernel to be patched first, which is out of my league, Never tried it yet. But if we had earlier kernels patched with the latest drivers or what ever they could handle, then yes they should be updated. I would compile just about anything to get them going again.

Ps 2.02 would be a great start. It doesn't recognize usb mice or sata dvdrw's. You get that fixed and I'll be there.
ttuuxxx

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 14:47    Post subject:  

puppyiso


I agree with most of what you said


and I did something about it
to preserve some of the older versions

by carefully striping them down

I built the fat free series
versions 213-3.01

all built with unleashed one package at a time
a very tedious process
since all the packages were lumped together
2.14-217


so the ground work is there already
if you want to update any of those


just select what is your favorite puppy version
Quote:

Ps 2.02 would be a great start. It doesn't recognize usb mice or sata dvdrw's. You get that fixed and I'll be there.
ttuuxxx


Jeff the only annoying incompatibility with versions less than 214
is package management but what I am working on now would help
fix that problem

then the other is the window manager registering packages
maybe a change of window managers

big_bass

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 16:33    Post subject:  

big_bass wrote:
puppyiso

Jeff the only annoying incompatibility with versions less than 214
is package management but what I am working on now would help
fix that problem

then the other is the window manager registering packages
maybe a change of window managers

big_bass

here bigbass have a look
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=1072544111&t=22820
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=23716&search_id=1072544111&start=15
there's actually lots of post about sata burners not working on 2 series, I couldn't boot from 2.02-2.15 with my latest sata burner, so I dropped in a ide burner and it booted all of them, also the sata burner works on 4&5 series just fine, I haven't tried it on 2.16, 2.17 or 3 series yet. Also on 2.02 my usb mouse didn't work, others they did. Still trying to fix that one, would be handy for others.
ttuuxxx

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linuxsansdisquedur


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 250
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 18:32    Post subject:  

Is it time to go back to source of puppy ?
why a new release ? http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42284
"Yesterday, Once more" We don't have to hurry. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42445
An official real retro puppy? http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42037
Important ideas for the future of Puppy Linux http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=41951

Users point of view if having long term support distro running on old hardware too !
More usefull more stability more attractivity !

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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 21:38    Post subject:  

To be objective, not subjective,

There is a poll "Best Puppy version Poll"

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27280

Many said version 3(or 3.1)

I think so, too.

But I still think my last version 2.14R more needs update.

I heard ecomoney is working on it. I expect "Shinny and new like a virgin" or "new and improved" like most US commercials in the 80s.

Not because of nostalgia, I had tested "EVERY" puppies I could find before I chose 214Remaster.

It was stable which I value most. But the firefox was so unstable.
Also, I couldn't find any WINE for that. Eventually moved up to 4.12 Retro. (Yes, I am an old man. Things like retro attracts me.)

With more attractive icon sets, themes and wall papers, 2.14R should look new.

Under the hood, well, need new drivers maybe.
The features like

1) loading up to 40 sfs with changed initrd.gz something (I do remember MU posted something about it. But I don't remember where. Hmm.. memories.. kills me) Most notably evident success in ChoicePup.

2) Adaptability : WINE for windows "repository" and /or
Upup like Ubuntu adaptability. and /or
Slaxer like Slackware repo.

4) trim the fat : like trimmed menu. we don't need all that network menus for an example. Just one for connecting(Network wizard alone is fine)

5) replace the old apps with "lighter"& new ones. like "antiguo" posted in the puppylinux.org. So even P2 would run it. Right now the 4.12r installed in my P2 is a failure. Tooooooo slow.

6) and keep the size down to 50? impossible? diet crazy, huh?
For me puppy MB equals to human weight.

If these things are done to 2.14R, it should be 2.14N(new born, Neo whatever) Name really doesn't matter. Wink

Just a personal opinion.

John S
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 21:48    Post subject:  

Just read this

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=306261#306261

I am one of those people shouting for revival.

Don't take it as "resurrection from the grave"

Take it as a pleasure like rebuilding old classic cars in the garage.

John
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legendofthor

Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 219
Location: Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 22:44    Post subject:  

G'day,
This is indeed a positive discussion.
Just a thought....
Ubuntu has an LTS version - what about Puppy LTS?

Puppy2 LTS
Puppy3 LTS
Puppy4 LTS

Have small development teams (eg: 3 peeps) for each series to continue support and development... However, it would need dedication, for those ppl to commit to that project - mmmm sounds like hard work.
Again let me stress that these developmental teams in no way affect or hinder the outcome of the latest Puppy Development.
My additional 2 cents....
Cheers
Martin
[oops bad spelling]

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legendofthor

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PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2009, 22:52    Post subject:  

Sorry linuxsansdisquedur - you did mention LTS.... should have properly read the thread before butting in Embarassed
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linuxsansdisquedur


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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Location: South of France

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2009, 04:24    Post subject:  

have you read
Important ideas for the future of Puppy Linux http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=41951
I think it will make puppy a must ! Razz
puppyiso said
Quote:
It was stable which I value most. But the firefox was so unstable.

have you try pizzapup (based on 2.14, I usually use) Firefox/2.0.0.20 in it is totaly undestructible!

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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2009, 04:44    Post subject:  

Hello, linuxsansdisquedur

Before I chose 2.14R, there were some final candidates.

Among them was PizzaPup. I don't remember now why I dropped that one but I felt 2.14R was more solid.

2.14R was fine until I felt a great need for WINE.

John
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linuxsansdisquedur


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PostPosted: Wed 20 May 2009, 16:41    Post subject:  

I just have use sometime wine
wine 0917 run fine in puppy 2.14 (except sound for me)
I had wine 10rc2 running in it (installing 0.917 desinstall it and installing 1.0rc2 with toutoulinux 2.14 (french version of puppy))

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puppyiso


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PostPosted: Wed 20 May 2009, 21:31    Post subject:  

I don't remeber now why I couldn't use WINE but I think I tried.
Mabe I couldn't run my favorite apps at that time and thought higher version might work then.

Anyhow, I miss the good old solid 2.14R.


John
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