The Kennel

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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Lobster
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The Kennel

#1 Post by Lobster »

Image

Having tried an early Alpha of the Woof.build system I know it is a lot simpler than the 'Unleashed' system Warren has been using for 4.2

As 4.2.1 continues to build on the excellent Deep Thought
we need to think a little more deeply about what exactly
Puppy5 'Kennel' is?
http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/developm ... y-5-kennel

I envisage a best of breed 'kennel' of releases.
Is that right?
The Kennel codename is to encourage the Puppy diversity
that creates so many puplets.

So can we release Puppy standard
but can we also provide variations?
Can we offer individual Puppys for download as 100MB or less ISO?
With one main build?
. . . AND a CD and even DVD of menu controlled variations . . .?
Such a menu booting DVD could contain a variety of possibilities . . .
with SFS perhaps?

What say you? :)
Last edited by Lobster on Mon 27 Apr 2009, 13:37, edited 2 times in total.
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sikpuppy
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#2 Post by sikpuppy »

I always burn ISO operating systems to DVD unless the computer I am installing on doesn't have a DVD drive. DVDs have a much higher throughput and as quite a few Ubuntu 8.10 users found the ONLY way to get their CD ISO to boot properly. CDs burnt to DVD behave in the same manner, from an end user point of view, and since the CD only takes a small fraction of the disc it is more reliable too.

Now all that drivel is out of the way, are you talking about some sort of front end that then boots one of a number of pseudo partitions on a DVD that has different puppy set-ups? Could be interesting. Would even work on a CD...

*edit* It would be nice if gparted were to start before the first boot...I use virtualbox to try out distros, and because I have forgotten to partition the virtual hard drive I have to start over because there is nowhere for the savefile to go. One of the first things I do is increase the savefile size and although it's not a long process to reboot, it is mildly irritating. Like typing a long document and forgetting to save. Mildly irritating :P

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Lobster
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#3 Post by Lobster »

Yes I use recordable DVD's and find them very reliable and faster booting than CD's

There are already one or two puplets with several Puppy versions on them. So whatever system is used for that would be suitable . . .
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trio
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#4 Post by trio »

My dream:

1. A standard puppy iso, contains NOTHING but the basic linux (I dunno what it should have exactly), but for sure without any office suit, media player, bla bla...

2. some kind of pupplet.sfs packages list, that will make an "instant" pupplet, flavours to choose from:
- Media Player pup
- Office Work pup
- Kids fun and games pup
- School pup
- etc

So, users can download basic pup once, and get to download and try as many pupplet.sfs they want

Well, my dream that is.....

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#5 Post by 01micko »

trio wrote:My dream:

1. A standard puppy iso, contains NOTHING but the basic linux (I dunno what it should have exactly), but for sure without any office suit, media player, bla bla...

2. some kind of pupplet.sfs packages list, that will make an "instant" pupplet, flavours to choose from:
- Media Player pup
- Office Work pup
- Kids fun and games pup
- School pup
- etc

So, users can download basic pup once, and get to download and try as many pupplet.sfs they want

Well, my dream that is.....
Have you been reading my notes again?


Wouldn't it be nice... an office sfs with OOO, cups, etc.... a graphics sfs.. a multimedia sfs... a muso's sfs... all fired up from one fat free pup... funny thing... I am typing this from the opposite! :lol: ... NYP midi... over 500meg! But very nice! Makes Mandriva look ordinary! (and that's about 3 gig!)
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WhoDo
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#6 Post by WhoDo »

trio wrote:Well, my dream that is.....
It's Deja Vu all over again! :lol:

That was my dream when we released 2.15CE - where sfs files came into vogue and were compiled for Office, Graphics, Multimedia, etc. Unfortunately the base wasn't exactly "fat free" at 132Mb, but that's what happens when you design by committee, as you must for a CE version.

Live the dream, trio. 8)
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nic2109
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#7 Post by nic2109 »

trio wrote:My dream:

1. A standard puppy iso, contains NOTHING but the basic linux (I dunno what it should have exactly), but for sure without any office suit, media player, bla bla...

2. some kind of pupplet.sfs packages list, that will make an "instant" pupplet, flavours to choose from:
- Media Player pup
- Office Work pup
- Kids fun and games pup
- School pup
- etc

So, users can download basic pup once, and get to download and try as many pupplet.sfs they want

Well, my dream that is.....
Well NOP is pretty much what you describe for the base (as is its wobbly sibling wNOP); have you tried it?

For NOP see this thread http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 64&t=39578
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#8 Post by 01micko »

nic2109 wrote:
Well NOP is pretty much what you describe for the base (as is its wobbly sibling wNOP); have you tried it?

For NOP see this thread http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 64&t=39578
I think trio uses NOP... helped with Pwidgets in NOP... see his sig :)
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Ray MK
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#9 Post by Ray MK »

Hi

NOP is excellent - as is ChoicePup, it loads and unloads sfs software packages on the fly (ie no rebooting to load/unload browser, Office packages, Wine, Gimp etc)

No real need to make a save file either as it automagically detects many network and mouse settings. Start either Xorg or Xvesa and boom - you're away.

Very fast too - even on old clonkers - runs very well in 93mb ram and a 1Ghz celeron proc. (my 5yr old noname (Patriot) laptop).

Absolutely flies on 6yr Acer laptop with 238mb ram and a 2.5Ghz celeron proc.

So - dream no more - download now - ChoicePup in derevatives.

Best regards - Ray

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trio
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#10 Post by trio »

Ahh, guys, whodo and micko get what I mean...

There is no full std puppy, only base puppy (familiar with tiny core?) And the difference is that you have two choices of adding programs, one is adding apps with the petget (as usual) and a new sfs get, which will make your puppy base to pupplets on the fly!

This can be done, as we already have barebone and fatfree..or skinny whatever..what we really need is pupplet sfs repo and a sfs get gui...sooo, people are encouraged to make pupp.sfs rather than pupplets..see the picture?

Cheers

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jebaJQ8
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#11 Post by jebaJQ8 »

The Kennel codename is to encourage the Puppy diversity
that creates so many puplets.
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#12 Post by Lobster »

Thanks jebaJQ8 for the logo :D

Sums up the new Kennel
have placed it on the wiki :)
http://puppylinux.org/wiki/development/ ... y-5-kennel
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#13 Post by Fix »

long time lurker, first time poster. i gotta say, puppy is one of the best small distro around. i currently have puppy 4 set up w/ full install on a Toshiba Satellite 2100cds w/wifi, and works great. i just wana say thanks BK and everyone in the puppy community that has contributed to making puppy a great OS. i know people put a lot of their personal time and effort into this project, and i for one appreciate it.

i see BK is working on Woof, so maybe we'll see puppy based on different builds and architectures. i was wondering if anyone heard of this project: pdaXrom-ng
http://wiki.pdaxrom.org/index.php/Main_Page

and if it might help to port puppy to different architectures. i believe it based on debain. if so, maybe we would see puppy/woof on mac ppc, ps3, pda w/arm, mips. that would be great for recycling even more aging systems.

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#14 Post by Lobster »

Thanks for delurking (is that like decloacking?) :)
That is a very exciting link for Developers
http://wiki.pdaxrom.org/index.php/Main_Page
I barely understand what it is about. :oops:

Kennel does open up porting to other processors
and this is already beginning . . .

Puppy has woofability
Is your favourite distro woofable?


NB: Woofable = a distro that can be used to build a Puppy 'look and feel'
version using the Puppy Woof build system
So far woofable distros are Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Arch and T2
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trio
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#15 Post by trio »

pardon my ignorance,

i still don't get it.....

if woof is the base for next puppy ...then which would be the next mainstream puppy based on (I mean will be made from woofability of which distro)? wouldn't that be pupplets and not mainstream puppy?

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#16 Post by 01micko »

trio my friend

Barry is working on the T2 build from woof, on which standard Puppy is based. IMO, this should be the way to go, with an upgraded kernel to keep all the fancy new HW happy and a retro of course.
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CavedOOde
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Play nice

#17 Post by CavedOOde »

Hallos,
Wouldn't it be funny to have options on what apps the user wanted in their .sfs? After the user would have chosen their apps it should build the sfs and install it (talking about frugal) or copy it to ram to use?

As it is right now there are no options , you get a basic set of apps and thats it.

I do realize you will need a DVD to place alot of .pets on but atleast users would get to choose what they wanted. Maybe its just to much work i don't know....

My 2cp
Caved

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#18 Post by ecomoney »

People that want .sfs extensibility should check out choicepup
Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

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#19 Post by Lobster »

Tomorrow 29 April 2009 Barry will be releasing Woof Alpha 6
Ttuuxxx has agreed to do a monthly update of 4.2.1 (our most stable release of Puppy, out in a few days - May 1 aprox)

Tronkel is very keen on the Debian Woof build
Others are experimenting with Slackware and Arch
So the base element for Kennel is manifesting . . .

The base build would seem to involve
the same Puppy menu structure
but programs compiled/ directly taken from the various woofable
distros (currently Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Arch and T2)
Should we expect that Sfs compiled with the devxx for Kennel, will work across the range?
Will .pets be compatible in all version if compiled for the new kernel used in Woof?

What I am trying to find out is the shared elements? :)
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Re: Play nice

#20 Post by sikpuppy »

CavedOOde wrote: As it is right now there are no options , you get a basic set of apps and thats it.
Sounds a lot like pretty much any version of Windows.

Unlike Redmond, the software can be appended or new software added by using Pupget. Additional software for a fairly comprehensive range of uses is being posted here all the time.

Even with Ubuntu, which has arguably the best end-user experience out of the box of a major distro, there are hoops to jump through to find what works and what doesn't.

With Ubuntu I find that many things are either unconfigured or need to be downloaded seperately, and this is after waiting, with the latest Ubuntu, what seems to take longer than ever to install the system. And that's off a 700mb distro.
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