HanSamBen-a derivative of Edupup with Gcompris 8.4- Alpha V2

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sidders
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HanSamBen-a derivative of Edupup with Gcompris 8.4- Alpha V2

#1 Post by sidders »

Have a look at the pre-release on another thread


Here is a little offering. Inspired by both Mr K's Puppy Linux and Antonio Sanguigni alias slapshot 's Edupup.


I wanted to make this as comprehensive as possible and aim it at Linux Noobs running Daddies Vista machine to run as a Livecd (2and half mins initial load on lappy 1.6ghz cpu and 1gb ram)and also be able to run on a P3 with 128mb ram as a full install

Using Barebones 4.1.2 as its base. its 209mb and its core app is Gcompris 8.4.2.
Bugger all screen shots, but the background is the same as Edupup.
Kids Stuff

Gcompris 8.4.2
Tuxmaths
Tuxtype
Tuxpaint (+stamps)
Bugsqish
Concentration (memory game)
Hex-a-hop (puzzle)
TCLkit Coins (another memory game but using coins, sterling, to teach the little ones about cash)
HHH – Hannahs horse or something a maze game.
Xsoldier
The inbuilt puppy jigsaw game.

Other:
Abiword 2.6.3 updated
Abi dictionary 2.6.3
Firepup 0.43 (with Flash player 9)
Cups 1.3.9
Gpicview
Added some “fun fonts
Last edited by sidders on Thu 19 Nov 2009, 21:21, edited 5 times in total.

raffy
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fantastic

#2 Post by raffy »

This is fantastic work - will test it. In the meantime, did you use G_pup's SMP version for this? If so, was it version 2? (a simple URL could be your answer :) )
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sidders
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#3 Post by sidders »

Just going to find out what SMP pup is.

I used this one: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36727

No SMP
Last edited by sidders on Tue 21 Apr 2009, 21:45, edited 2 times in total.

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puppyiso
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#4 Post by puppyiso »

Hello, sidders

I have a problem with downloading from the site. I registered but it is too slow to download at the speed of 2, 3kb.

If it is possible, please upload it elsewhere.

By the way, what does HanSamBen mean?

John

sidders
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#5 Post by sidders »

I will get an account at filehost (i have seen someone else use it on the forum). I'll let you know when its done.

The HanSamBen are my 3 little ones. Hannah, Sam and Ben. All under 3, i'm knackered!

I've uploaded it to here as well: http://www.filefactory.com/file/agc331a ... en-412_iso

At the bottom of the page click on Download for free..........

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ecomoney
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#6 Post by ecomoney »

Thank you Sidders!!! I am downloading and it will be installed in the nursery in the morning. Have you let slapshot know about the derivative?

Perhaps if the ntfs/fat32 drivers were to be removed, it would make a totally live CD. Parents could leave their kids on it without fear that they would delete their windows files! It would increase their interest in linux too.

When I have downloaded I will upload to my webspace to create a mirror.
Feel free to slate it! Its been a good learning experience.
I would never! I appreciate your hard work, and will give whatever constructive feedback I can. Perhaps you should put "alpha" in the title until you are fairly happy its acceptably bugfree.
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ecomoney
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#7 Post by ecomoney »

Mirror

http://www.ecomoney.eu/puppy/distros/ha ... en-412.iso

MD5SUM: fd079af7c6fdaffcec4f831fa07b2c61

I have to go out, but I will leave uploading, should be about two hours from the time of this post on my creaky old British connection :wink:
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Peter444
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HanSamBen

#8 Post by Peter444 »

Sidders ,Thanks for your labour of love for your children and others

I downloaded from ecomoney and burnt to cd ok

The later versions of gcompris have a large red curser to make it easier for beginners ( my 3 year old grand daughter)

A quick search turned up this http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... f6d718858d

No ideal but my grandaughter likes it better than the normal small curser

When I find out how to slow the curser down I will let you know

Health Wealth and Happiness for the Future

Peter

Peter

sidders
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#9 Post by sidders »

Great idea Peter, i will have a play with it.

Rob, you mentioned removing the Ntfs and fat drivers on another thread.
I wasnt sure how to do it (as yet), so i just disabled the desktop driv icons. I will look into it.

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ecomoney
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Testing Results

#10 Post by ecomoney »

Well, I dropped my friends little one Caleb off at the nursery this morning, and installed HanSamBen, on one of their two computers (took me ten minutes...gotta love puppy!). I told the staff there about it and basically let the kids at it with them looking over their shoulders. Heres a snap I took of him on my phone.

Image
"Junior Puppy Testpilot Caleb" aged 2 and a half - His report will be on your desk in the morning :lol:

When I returned three hours later, apparently the kids loved it, and it hadnt crashed once!!!! I asked the teachers their their views....they were very positive about it, especially the look and feel, and the fact they now have a modern gCompris! I pressed them for something they felt could be improved (for that is the purpose of testing).
"Well, it could do with a few more things for younger kids"
Well, I suppose their right....U.K. schools are locked into Windoze, so the only opportunity for the penguin to get a look in is in pre-schools. I asked them about their curriculum and they explained they mostly teach basic language skills at that age, colours, shapes, names, animals etc. The reading/writing skills are left to be taught at Junior School.

A few years ago (before I came to puppy), I set up some really old 486's with quite a bit of DOS software for Aids workers/Schools in the Gambia....there is/was a whole wealth of kids software available in DOS format that are TINY...the drives were 300mb and I packed about 400 different programs on it.!. Have you heard of DOSBOX or FreeDOS (there is a .pet available for puppy). This is basically a licience free dos emulator that can run many older DOS applications, without the need for any licience. heres some software

http://www.kidsdomain.com/down/pc/_agef ... index.html

Perhaps a thought of getting more software on....worth the moral compromise I think.

@ Sidders

Thanks for changing the thread title....we can be excused a few bugs now!

Yes, its the ntfs 3g drivers that were introduced in puppy 2.02 when the linux NTFS team figured out how it was Micro$oft was encypting peoples data on their own hard disks to be read by only their paid-for operating system lol. Previous puppies just had read access to NTFS. I believe if the drivers were taken out, access to the pup_save.2fs file would still be read-write, which would allow the little munchkins to save their tuxpaint drawings and the like, but would not be able to be "infected" from windows (inside it has linux ext2 format, which windows doesnt read without curiously unreliable additional drivers).

I think what is probably best if you wish to go down this route (which I believe you should) is if I PM either Dougal or Tempestuous, who know (very well) about the startup/driver side of things.

I did mention to Slapshot about the edupup background (Wiley Cayote), I think there may be some kind of restriction in terms of copyright (Warner Bros are not known for sharing their work as freely as you!).

Another thought is to change the name of the pup_save.2fs files to "edu_save.2fs". I did this with ecopups "eco_save.2fs" files so they wouldnt conflict with standard puppy (one would look for eco_save.2fs one for pup_save.2fs). Its a matter of simply uncompressing initrd.gz, and running a bare text search/replace for "pup_save.2fs" and replace with "edu_save.2fs". I could potentially reach into the dusty areas of my brain and figure how to do it again if you thought it was a good idea.

Many thanks Sidders, you made a lot of kids happy today...including me! :-)

@ Peter444

Thanks for confirming the download works, and your feedback.
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sidders
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#11 Post by sidders »

I think that this should have 2 versions based on age groups, maybe 2-4\5 (pre-school) and the rest up to 10?. It would be nice to put them all together, but it would be too big.

So i'm off on a software hunt. Thanks for the feedback.

Peter444
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HanSamBen

#12 Post by Peter444 »

Hi sidders, a bit more feedback on the large cursor for Gcompris

I can get the large red curser to appear in Gcompris after I use it for a while

I can generaly get it to appear after closing the single mouse click sponge game, so of course we make sure we always start with that game

I use a Labtex wireless usb mouse, not sure if that has anything to do with it

Just a minor issue in a great Kids Puppy

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#13 Post by jamesbond »

Sidders, just to let you know that you're appreciated. Thank you.
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#14 Post by sidders »

Peter. I have had a play around with regards the cursor. Looking back, when i finally got Gcompris to work, the first thing i did was to get the Han (hannah) out of Hansamben on that very game to get used to the mouse. So using your experience and thinking laterally, i thought of running the Gcompris admin

Code: Select all

gcompris -a
> boards > filters and turning down the difficulty level to 1, 2 or 3 stars, however it didnt work and when going back to the admin console it hadnt remembered\saved the setting. It may have something to do with the profiles. I'll keep at it.

Ecomonet (Rob). The freedos apps are the way to go, just looking at the programs, theres more there for pre-schoolers than Linux can offer. So am figuring out Dosbox and Dosemu. It also gives me the chance to look at wine as well.

PS i have posted a finding at http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40490

[FOR TESTING] Gcompris 8.4.6 SFS for 4.x series Beta

mmm talking of wine!

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ecomoney
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#15 Post by ecomoney »

Under "the desktop" menu there is a cursor selector. Maybe a big pointy finger would be good. I notice they use a bigger cursor on gCompris.

The preschool havnt contacted me all week, no news is good news! I will call in next week and pick up some more suggestions/feedback.

I dont know about wine.....from a security point of view. Wont it introduce a lot of vulnerabilities that windows has? Gotta keep the little ones safe.

The difficulty level setting in gCompris is a new one on me!
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#16 Post by sidders »

Its a star rating they have. I think 1 star is for the littlest ones and 6 stars will include the electricity game with GNUCAP etc, for the not so little ones. The kids can be grouped by teacher and a profile assigned to the group, then the stars are assigned to that group. Its more for a networked classroom enviroment. I have PM'd a reply to ljfr about it. Going to test whether we can be rid of the Pysqlite and lose the admin console for a standalone enviroment. 1 less dependency and a smaller app.

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#17 Post by ecomoney »

About time I did some reporting. I visited the preschool yesterday, and had a good sit down and chat with the team of testers there. Theyre very excited to be a "testing station" for a free kids distro (and to get their computing so cheap!). They really have had a really good look at HanSamBen, and their childrens use of it. Overall theyre VERY impressed indeed, and have asked me to send you their heartfelt thanks Sidders/LJFR and everyone involved on a job well done.

......they were just a little confused I didint know your real life names!

They especially commented on all the new sounds/stamps noises on paint, which they have missed with ecopup.

Now being the pernicious Virgo software tester I am, who nothing is ever good enough for me (even when its free), I really pressed them for ways that it could be improved, as only by being (constructively) critical can things become even better (sorry Im still a little sore about the official puppy 4.2 testing program I was on!). I will do my best to improve too.

Heres what they said....Since Im a bit formal I will list them under "Feature requests", "Change Requests" and "Bug Reports".

Feature requests

I hope Sidders your research into freeDOS games is coming on well, perhaps this will help you in your choices.

-They have requested some more games of a "drag and drop" or "mouse control" variety. Part of their job is to teach them "motor control" skills...how to pick things up an manipulate them.

-Also any more games that will help them learn the recognition of shapes and colours, and matching/sorting of these.

-Apparently the little darlings have been practicing their newfound dragging and dropping skills on the desktop icons too! They have asked for a way of locking these down so wont get moved about.

-They have also requested a way of Locking the keyboard too (at the moment they put the the keyboards around the back of the computers....I dont know how this could be accomplished because many of the games require the use of the keyboard too (especially the DOS ones I would think).

-They have also requested that a Playleaders Manual be provided, preferably including screenshots, with a list of things in "Playleaders terminology" that each game provides. Im happy to help with this if needed...hopefully someone else will volunteer who has a better understanding of this.

Change Requests

-They have suggested that a brighter Wallpaper would be more attractive to the children (although they like the icons). Apparently strong primary colours is the key here. The computer we have testing HanSamBen is next to an ecopup one (a general purpose puplet I made for windows refugees...who also have children) and apparently the children use that one first in the morning simply for this reason (despite it has a lot less for children on it). This is also really disturbing as Ecopup looks like Windows!

- I purposefully asked if a puppy on the wallpaper would be appropriate...they said that would be fine as long as it was a primary coloured puppy, and it was "smiling" :roll:

-May I suggest IceWM as a change of window manager, as jwm isnt as capable of the big bold types of graphics children like. May I also suggest this theme which I have used before for kids computers in homes.

- Theyve also requested that a larger, more colourful mouse pointer would be helpful, to give the children more feedback when they use the mouse (like the one in gCompris itself).

Bug Reports

- Apparently Gcompris has a bug where, when the "Home" icon in the bottom right is clicked, the icons for the game menu on the left and bottom disappear (I wish I had took a pic as it happened while I was there). I set the gCompris going again from the command line with "gcompris > error.txt", but the bug failed to manifest again in the time I was there. I will try and get a more detailed report. Apparently it happens several times a day. They have been applying the "switch it off and back on again" workaround for now, though Ive did give training on the more convenient but less obvious "ctrl+alt+bkspace...xwin" method.

Im sorry Im not able to supply more information. Ive done a quick google for this bug but havnt found anything. Hopefully someone will be able to recreate it and post some more detailed information.

-Apparently also, there is a problem with the gcompris mouse pointer (the big red one they like) not showing if gcompris is started from the desktop icon...but apparently it works if started from the start menu entry.


@ Sidders

Thanks loads for the work you have put in already, and Im sorry to provide you with yet more of it! Im looking forward to an updated version with FreeDOS, let me know which areas you would particularly like me to direct testing at from a technical point of view.

Woof Woof and Doggie biccies all round
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#18 Post by sidders »

Thanks Rob.
All noted. I'm off to the nursery in Rawtenstall where this is being tested (the kids have been fighting over the mouse and it needs replacing).
They have also asked for some documentatin on whats whats. I think Gcompris alone has a such a myriad of activities it can be confusing. Peter has pointed out the big red cursor in Gcompris, i havnt found anything also.
I've been working on Dosbox and it works . Trying to create a .desktop file to point to a simple script for the DOS program, but failing. The script is fine (dosbox -exit, so they dont have to exit the DOS prompt after every game).
I will report back later, as 2 of my little ones are whining, they've got a bug. AGAIN!

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#19 Post by ecomoney »

Yes, I always leave a stock of spare mice in the stock cupboard....we must put that tip in the documentation :D

[Shudders as he thinks back to his windoze days]

I think perhaps what you need is a .bat script to run the game and then exit
a .bat is the dos equivalent of a .sh, but nowhere near as flexible. It should suffice for this purpose though.

Call the .bat batch file from the icon, which calls the game itself, then exits.

You could also create a menu of the games included with a .bat file, this would mean that we could release it as a kids games pack as an .pet for all Puppies.

Of course, THE computer for schools before the PC came along was the BBC MicroComputer (My first computer as well). I remember programming a game for it at my 2 week school work experience aged 15, it filled all 32K of RAM!

There is an emulator here

http://www.mkw.me.uk/beebem/index.html

I suspect it would not be very large, and there is a whole wealth of free abandonware out there for it. Many of the more senior teachers would already be familiar with the BBC Micro.

Thank you for noting my report. Let us know the results of your findings in Rawtenstall. Anything common between the two reports will definetely be interesting.

Oh, I nearly also forgot to mention, I got a copy of the Early Learning Curriculum DVD, with guidlines for playleaders etc. Im told its not confidential so I will upload it to my site (mainly .pdf's). The government are very strict about "learning outcomes" of the kiddies Play, and the playleaders have much form filling to do, so they can quote nice statistics about how well theyre doing in Education.

If the manual made reference to which games fulfilled which "outcomes", it really would make their job a lot easier, and them a lot more willing to use the computer to help educate the children.
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Re: Testing Results

#20 Post by sullysat »

ecomoney wrote: A few years ago (before I came to puppy), I set up some really old 486's with quite a bit of DOS software for Aids workers/Schools in the Gambia....there is/was a whole wealth of kids software available in DOS format that are TINY...the drives were 300mb and I packed about 400 different programs on it.!. Have you heard of DOSBOX or FreeDOS (there is a .pet available for puppy). This is basically a licience free dos emulator that can run many older DOS applications, without the need for any licience. heres some software

http://www.kidsdomain.com/down/pc/_agef ... index.html

Perhaps a thought of getting more software on....worth the moral compromise I think.
I don't think its much of a compromise if the purpose of the puplet is to reach kids on a Puppy platform. However, it would have to be VERY easy to use and completely preconfigured.

Icon on the desktop that either opens dosbox to a menu (maybe by age) or separate icons for each dos program that boots them separately. Can't ask teachers or kids to configure anything.

Sully
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