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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development » 4.x
Pre Release Testing Methodologies for Puppy Linux
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5752
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr 2009, 23:05    Post subject:  

There is a thread in "Suggestions" titled" Wish list for next puppy release". It's a sticky....
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Apr 2009, 01:31    Post subject:  

Quote:
and getting together a group of people who can actually build a distro


Thanks Dougal.
We do what we can, with who we have.
A lot of effort went into 4.2 and a lot of end users are happily using it.
4.2.1 will continue that group of happy end users Smile

For Kennel any idea, any group, any genius can create the 'Perfect Puppy'. Is there such a creature?

Look forward to it as it happens . . .. Cool

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 09 Apr 2009, 03:42    Post subject:  

Dougal wrote:
Barry and some of the old-timers wanted me to do it and I refused, partly due to technical limitations, but mostly because (as I stated on Barry's blog) there's nothing to coordinate.

AFAIK you were asked to "lead" the development effort, not just "coordinate" the efforts of others, but I could be wrong. Leading by example is always a good choice. Of course there is going to be "nothing to coordinate" if you don't communicate with the other core developers and decide what you'd all like to see in the next version and who would like to tackle which bits. Why did everyone just sit by and "leave it to Barry" to rebuild the base? Barry made it abundantly clear that he was concentrating on Woof. Who did you expect would do the core re-development in Barry's absence? It sure as heck was never going to be me! C'mon, surely you had some clue didn't you? Confused Sounds like a rationalisation to me.

Dougal wrote:
Who are the "maintainers" you work with? The only maintainers around here I can think about are me (unofficially maintaining rarsa'a network-wizard, just because I'm the one who bothered to try and fix and improve it) and people like Sigmund and Jason Pline (plinej) (and gyro etc.), who went ahead and wrote P* apps and by default are their maintainers (and disciple, with things like the trash appdir). And there's tempestuous, obviously, the Puppy janitor, cleaning up after others and trying to get things working for users.

Well that's a pretty good list to start, but what about Zigbert's team including trio, tasmod and 01micko, Hairywill (before he had to refocus his time), wjaguar, pa_mcclamrock, Pizzasgood, etc. There's a pretty complete list of those involved in the 4.2 release notes in the wiki.

Dougal wrote:
So, as far as I'm concerned, 4.20 is basically a WhoDo/ttuuxx puplet.

Now that's just downright unkind to all of those who contributed to the effort, especially some of the very names you listed above as prolific in the Puppy development program. Mad

Dougal wrote:
This shows what the basic problem: when Barry announced his retirement*, you folks went ahead and planned a new release, instead of starting from the ground and getting together a group of people who can actually build a distro (as I put it back then: first be able to replicate the existing Puppy, before you go and try to enhance it).

Do you ever read anything without your name in it, Dougal? It was stated from the outset that 4.2 would be a simple refinement of 4.1.2 and nothing more. That was deliberate to allow the community to get its feet wet without taking on too much at the first attempt. Rolling Eyes It never ceases to amaze me how so many technical people seem totally incapable of Big Picture thinking.

Dougal wrote:
So where are you now? You're planning on Barry to get the new build done for you -- but he's supposed to be gone!

Not "planning", Dougal. Just "hoping". If Barry is content to let someone else introduce his new baby to the Linux world, so be it. I was leaving the door open in case HE wanted to do the introductions. And Barry was, by his own words, never going to be "gone" from the Puppy team; just taking a back seat so he could work on Woof and other things that interested him more than packaging a new distro release every 6-8 months. Did you not read ANY of Barry's statements to that effect?

Dougal wrote:
Anyone who's been on this forum for a while should have noticed by now that muggins has been posting dotpups/dotpets to the forum on a daily basis for the past few years (even now that he's in Tazzie -- is that a vacation, or was W'gong too warm for him??) -- and that's not the way to go. Someone like him should be given the power to create "official" packages (following some guidelines about how they should be made) and upload them to the repository, then update packages.txt before every release (and no, he shouldn't have to get permission from you for every package, as he is in a better position that you to decide if the package is ok or not! He's the one who saw the sources and compiled them). As it is now, he is a "wated resource".

Oh please! Without wishing to offend muggins, most of what he has posted has been GAMES for crying out loud! I am detecting a sense of resentment from you that someone like me, who hasn't developed a single line of code for Puppy, should be effectively in charge of the program. Am I right about that? It certainly seems so to me. Frankly, I took the project on because I cared enough to contribute what I know best - skills in managing volunteer workers, and coordinating projects. I've been a professional manager for nearly 40 years. That's my contribution.

At no stage did I suggest that I alone would decide if a package was ok or not; only that under the proposed system I alone would have the power to commit it to the Git tree when it was deemed that was appropriate. I would MUCH rather that responsibility fell to someone like you, Pizzasgood or even muggins than to me. How do you like them apples? Are you gonna volunteer now?

Dougal wrote:
And please will everybody stop talking about Git? Git is an SCM. The "S" stands for source. What should be in git is directories with the various Puppy scripts and sources for Puppy-specific apps. Not compiled binaries or tarballs -- there is no point in that. And it certainly won't change the way things work around here -- people moving their arses will.

As far as I can see, apart from your own hobby interest in the network wizard, you should be including yourself as one of those in need of "moving their arses"! Being an armchair critic is too easy. Would you prefer to be the one to coordinate the next release? Go for it! I won't fight you for the "privilege"!

Dougal wrote:
*- I don't really consider Barry as being retired from Puppy: the only way to keep him away from Puppy is to keep him away from computers... so all he did was escape the responsibility of "having" to care about problems people are having -- since Puppy is his toy, not something he created to add any more stress to his life (hey, I'd say moving to Middle Of Nowhere, WA is probably a matter of trying to escape responsibilities...).

And your point is? We all knew that going in. It was one of the reasons why I stepped in! I felt I could take some of that onerous load and let Barry concentrate on what he does best. So shoot me, Dougal. Maybe that was a mistake but you haven't offered any viable alternatives!

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Apr 2009, 04:13    Post subject:  

Thanks Warren for all your efforts.

I am using 4.2 smp (a 4.2 puplet)
4.2.1 patches and updates are already being added - see forum threads.

From what I understand the plan is to maybe use Woof in 4.3?

Barrys t2 compile - will use the 4.2/4.2.1 depository - is that right?
The woof compiles are really the beginnings of a new kernel and the kennel 5.xx series.
The t2 compile might not be as stable as Debian or Slack builds - is that right?

4.2 is more stable than 4.12 - it is a genuine upgrade and update. It works. Deep Thought exists. It is our first release as a community.
We did it.

Simple. Better. Easier.
Deep Thought follows the Puppy principles
Woof Woof

PS.. Puppy Deep Thought is not perfect and carries no guarantees
No change there . . . Very Happy

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5719
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 11:01    Post subject:  

Didn't know where to put this, so I point it here.

With the upgrade of Pprocess, it is now only Psip that uses gtklogfileview. A global search found 2 files containing gtklogfileview in code:
/usr/local/psip/dialog_debugger
/usr/local/psip/dialog_inputchat

It is easy to use Xdialog instead. It could be something like this:

Code:
Xdialog --title "Psip" --screen-center --fixed-font --no-ok --cancel-label "Stop" --tailbox /tmp/logfile 500x500


Note! I have not looked at the Psip code


Sigmund

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 11:34    Post subject:  

I did read that this was/is/maybe one day will be
Testing methodologies for Puppy Linux
which is a good long needed focus

but since there is a major problem with the
""volunteers"

I will offer a small piece of the puzzle that I have
that is only useful if I give it way


this isnt a quote this is something I somehow discovered for myself
the "hard way "

everyone in life gets a piece of the puzzle
sometimes the person you at first don't like has a piece
of the puzzle
you need ...you lose if you don't get it (life is rather strange )

well with that in mind life is more interesting never knowing who holds that little clue
you may need

so fire away in the end only you will lose

I always get the puzzle piece I need one way or another

there are just a small handful of "volunteers "
you will never know how far puppy could go if you dont add your piece to the puzzle



big_bass aka ...Joe

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debian wheezy ,linux mint, slackware I use them all and they all have good points
Mint would be best for general users though
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10750
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 21:40    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Thanks Warren for all your efforts.

I am using 4.2 smp (a 4.2 puplet)
4.2.1 patches and updates are already being added - see forum threads.

From what I understand the plan is to maybe use Woof in 4.3?

Barrys t2 compile - will use the 4.2/4.2.1 depository - is that right?
The woof compiles are really the beginnings of a new kernel and the kennel 5.xx series.
The t2 compile might not be as stable as Debian or Slack builds - is that right?

4.2 is more stable than 4.12 - it is a genuine upgrade and update. It works. Deep Thought exists. It is our first release as a community.
We did it.

Simple. Better. Easier.
Deep Thought follows the Puppy principles
Woof Woof

PS.. Puppy Deep Thought is not perfect and carries no guarantees
No change there . . . Very Happy


I'm actually gone camping with the wife and kids for the easter break, just came home for a few minutes for supplies, how strange it was last night without electricity, running water etc, but the area is just picturesque surrounded by mountains and a fast running very shallow fresh water river is part of it, nice find, only about 1hrs drive. Smile No fish Confused Its part of the annual church trip. So theres around 60 of us.

Anyways to answer your question Lobster, Before we go and decide t2 over the rest of the woof offspring's maybe we will possibly build a few spups,dpups etc and while we are doing that, other non puppy distros will build on the latest T2 and then we can follow up on their bug reports and see actually how stable it is? that way we don't waste anytime at all and we also help with progress woof's future?
No need to rush is there?
ttuuxxx

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 22:35    Post subject:  

A lot of people prefer Debian because of range of software and stability,.
others Slackware because of simplicity.

So far most experienced developers (and those are the opinions that do the work) are playing with Woof wuth Debian and Slackware as front runners
Those two versions are strong potential basis for the future Puppy.

The t2 compile is not available yet, be interesting to find out how Barry gets on and what reception it gets.

Present fixes and updates can go towards 4.2.1 and 4.3
Smile

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 23:01    Post subject:  

When I'm finished my easter holidays I'll see about releasing a small and updated regular version of dpup and the compiler. Well have fun guys back in a day or 2.
ttuuxxx

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