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Abiword problem in 4.2
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evilmrb

Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 06:42    Post_subject:  Abiword problem in 4.2
Sub_title: Opening a Word document in Abiword - fonts all garbled
 

I used Puppy 4.2 this morning on my Windows PC. I tried to open a Word 2000 doc from one of the hard disk partitions using Abiword. The fonts were complete gibberish and totally incomprehensible. I tried several other documents and got the same result. I assumed I would be able to open a Word 2000 doc with Abiword. Is this a bug or a problem of expectation?
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:04    Post_subject: Re: Abiword problem in 4.2
Sub_title: Opening a Word document in Abiword - fonts all garbled
 

evilmrb wrote:
I used Puppy 4.2 this morning on my Windows PC. I tried to open a Word 2000 doc from one of the hard disk partitions using Abiword. The fonts were complete gibberish and totally incomprehensible. I tried several other documents and got the same result. I assumed I would be able to open a Word 2000 doc with Abiword. Is this a bug or a problem of expectation?

Abiword 2.6.6 in Puppy 4.2 supports standard Microsoft .doc format AND the newer .docx format from Office 2007. Are you sure you chose the correct format when opening the documents? Confused

The second question is where exactly were the documents when you tried to open them? If they were on an NTFS partition, the problem may be in the latest ntfs-3g module which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. More information required please.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:19    Post_subject: Re: Abiword problem in 4.2
Sub_title: Opening a Word document in Abiword - fonts all garbled
 

WhoDo wrote:
evilmrb wrote:
I used Puppy 4.2 this morning on my Windows PC. I tried to open a Word 2000 doc from one of the hard disk partitions using Abiword. The fonts were complete gibberish and totally incomprehensible. I tried several other documents and got the same result. I assumed I would be able to open a Word 2000 doc with Abiword. Is this a bug or a problem of expectation?

Abiword 2.6.6 in Puppy 4.2 supports standard Microsoft .doc format AND the newer .docx format from Office 2007. Are you sure you chose the correct format when opening the documents? Confused

The second question is where exactly were the documents when you tried to open them? If they were on an NTFS partition, the problem may be in the latest ntfs-3g module which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. More information required please.


He is right and somewhat wrong, I just tried it with 10 different .doc from google, yes they are messed up, but thats because the wrong font is being used, Newtimes roman/Arial is being used by default, what you have to do is highlight the text only not pictures or it will crash Wink and select from the font list Deja Vu Sans and it will revert to proper text.
ttuuxxx

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evilmrb

Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 07:12    Post_subject: Abiword problem in 4.2
Sub_title: Opening a Word document in Abiword - fonts all garbled
 

Thanks for the reply gents.
I was opening a Word 2000 .doc file that was located on an NTFS partition. It's good to know that there is some sort of workaround but it is rather unwieldy to say the least.
Thanks again.
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pa_mcclamrock


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr 2009, 05:40    Post_subject:  

Here's my more elegant, though more radical, solution to the problem: Download textmaker-2002_full from the Official Puppy 3 repository and use TextMaker 2002 instead of AbiWord. Very Happy Actually I even paid a modest amount of good money for TextMaker 2008 as part of the SoftMaker Office 2008 suite (http://www.softmaker.com/english/ofl_en.htm), but you don't need to go that far just to get a great little word processor that doesn't have the faults of AbiWord.
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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr 2009, 07:33    Post_subject:  

I agree with pa_mcclamrock. I use TM on my Jornada 720 (Windows CE), and have always been an admirer of the word processor. The only drawback of TM is that this available version uses a lot of CPU. More than OOO writer, even.

TM's later versions have apparently cleaned that up.

I am confused why Abiword, despite so many versions, and so basic a design, is still so buggy. Even using MS Word docs on a FAT-16 SD card, I couldn't open them in 2.6.6 (Abiword on PL's 4.1.2 opens them fine).

Abiword's absence of smart quotes, em dashes, etc. is maddening. They gave up on smart quotes in version 2.2, I think, and there's no movement to return them bug-free. I understand that such punctuation seems too MS-influenced, but anybody who needs to submit a professional manuscript can't do it in Abiword. Smart quotes, whether you agree with them or not, are the standard in the editor's world.

Jake
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 02:45    Post_subject:  

Quote:
He is right and somewhat wrong, I just tried it with 10 different .doc from google, yes they are messed up, but thats because the wrong font is being used, Newtimes roman/Arial is being used by default, what you have to do is highlight the text only not pictures or it will crash Wink and select from the font list Deja Vu Sans and it will revert to proper text.
ttuuxxx


Nowhere near good enough Ttuxxx. Puppy needs to "just work", and its introduced what will be a major frustration to a great many people into a top ten linux distro. Mad

Did you know of this problem before release?

I encountered this problem a few days ago when I was editing a letter to our local housing board because a young female friend and her even younger brother were about to be evicted due to an administrative blunder on the Housing Boards part. Thankfully I had compiled oxygenoffice earlier for 4.2 and I had a copy on my keyring pendrive along with the docs. I had no internet access, or the time to trawl through technical "workarounds" for what should be a basic core function every operating system should be capable of since the Commodore PET.

I seriously suggest firing the whole production machine back up and producing a 4.2.1 bugfix version very quickly, and also creating a more formalized, and "newb-centered" testing and review procedure. Many people in the open source world (and out of it) will be watching us closely to see if we are able to hold it together and still produce the same quality of product now we do not have BarryK's leadership.

I have compiled a list of "just working" fonts. Out of the 19 included just seven display properly

microfonto

nimbus mono

nimbus roman

nimbus sans

pdingbats

standard symbols

url chancery

Ive also attached a screenshot of the bug.

Ttuxxx, is there a quick and easy way of fixing this problem or do we need to downgrade to the previous "just working" Abiword? Which would be quickest and easiest? Docx support is a "nice to have" feature, and not something we should risk the usability of core puppy linux over.

I now have ten computers that were due to go out this weekend with 4.2 that will need Abiword disabling completely on. I am lucky that I live in a rich, western country and have access to to machines that are capable of running full blown OpenOffice, others may not be so fortunate when they have a need to communicate in writing to those in positions of power.

In case anyone is wondering, yes I am livid about this Evil or Very Mad
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 03:14    Post_subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
In case anyone is wondering, yes I am livid about this Evil or Very Mad

Fine. Ask for your money back! Evil or Very Mad

This release went through 4 Alpha's, 2 Beta's and 4 RC's before Final was released and no-one picked up that particular bug in Abiword. If they had I would have pulled the later version and put the earlier version back in for the release. Duh. Rolling Eyes

I just love the way the people who have done 3/16th's of stuff all to help build the release (except to make their own requests for inclusions seem life-threatening) think they can turn up and start throwing their weight around about what should and shouldn't happen when they discover a problem they could and should have helped to find much earlier! Shocked

Will I suddenly drop everything and release a point1 update because you're "livid"? Bull$h!t I will!!! Question

Am I p!$$ed off? You bet! That's two of us now, isn't it Rob? Evil or Very Mad "Nowhere near good enough" indeed! What a bloody cheek! Mad

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 03:22    Post_subject:  

For anyone experiencing this fault, I can confirm that downgrading to the previous 2.6.3 version of Abiword fixes this problem. This is available via the "install" icon from desktop. You can also download it for offline installation from here

http://www.puppylinux.ca/puppyfiles/pet_packages-4/abiword-2.6.3.pet

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ecomoney


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 04:24    Post_subject:  

Its not about money WhoDo

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39126


My "nowhere near good enough" comment related to the quote of Ttuxxx's reply directly above it, not to your work Whodo.

I noticed my name was put on the list of the testing team in the release notes, I dont know why as I was not asked nor did I request it by you or anyone else.

I use Puppy Linux a lot in my everyday work - in fact it is my everyday work. I take the time to report any bugs I find and suggest things that the people I come across in my work find useful. In the social sectors I do most, often things *are* "life threatening". The twenty year old girl who I had crying on my shoulder today weighs just six and a half stone/91lb, as a result of an eating disorder brought on by the stress of potentially losing the home she has lived in for the last eight years. Not being able to open the letters to the Housing Authority she had been preparing on Microsoft Word all night didnt help.

You have made a lot of good decisions and introduced a lot of simple improvements that will no doubt make a lot of difference to a lot of people Whodo - and I have been the first to praise you for that. I know you have put a lot of hours in also. Did you check that you had received good positive feedback about the new recompiled (and therefore suspect) Abiword package you had recieved from Ttuxxx? Did you test it yourself? If it hadnt been tested it shouldnt have been included "period", a writing tool is not a "nice to have" its a necessity.

I dont want to detract from your good work WhoDo, I recognise you are a volunteer like the rest of us, and human with it. Humans make mistakes. There is a lot of well earned backslapping going on about 4.2, but also to be the best we can be then mistakes need to be recognised, rectified as soon as possible, and steps taken to ensure they are not repeated. A more thorough testing schedule with a ticklist, and perhaps a person invited to oversee testing formally for future releases would be a good idea.

Whodo/Everyone reading, please accept my apologies for the angry tone of my previous post. I have had a particularly stressful day and in future I will follow the golden rule of counting to ten before I click on the "reply" button. I regret causing anyone offence.

Whether you want to call the fix a point1 update, a bugfix or a service patch makes about as much difference as whether you call something an alpha, beta, release candidate or whatever. You could just regress abiword it and overwrite the copies and MD5Sums on the server for most people they dont care as long as it works. What is important is that you FIX IT SOON!!!!

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 04:58    Post_subject:  

ecomoney wrote:


Nowhere near good enough Ttuxxx. Puppy needs to "just work", and its introduced what will be a major frustration to a great many people into a top ten linux distro. Mad

Did you know of this problem before release? yes I am livid about this Evil or Very Mad


Listen you don't want me to get bent out of shape again do you??? Your pushing my buttons, This is a warning, your one and only!
In about 1-2hrs time I'll be releasing a updated version of "Puppies 4.2"
It will Have working abiword with .doc .docx rtf etc, so take a chill pill and downloaded in 2 hrs time. I updated the older version from 4.2 with the latest plugins/templates, So its the same and it works. 2.6.3 or 2.6.6 who cares? as long as it has the same features.
That abiword was in puppy for like almost a month and you sure as hell didn't find those bugs, like I said Abiword 2.6.8 won't compile properly on puppy, So I used the next highest version 2.6.6. That compiled without error, so if you have a issue go to the source of it
http://www.abisource.com/support/bugs/
It has nothing to me, Do you think while I compiled over 100 easily programs/fixes for series 4.2 that I could waste what valuable resource that I was being to the 4.2 project to test things from start to finish? Thats why there were beta's and alpha's. Next time get off your butt and lend a hand testing, Then we wouldn't be here talking about this crap.

Also you said "Thankfully I had compiled oxygenoffic"
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=170021
Thats crap on stick, they don't supply sources to compile any version higher than 2.0.4. What you did was repackage a recompiled binary file, or simply made a sfs install. You can do that without a compiler, We all know you couldn't compile yourself out of box. lol It would take a lot of effort for you actually compile something complicated like abiword, For someone who does absolutely nothing for puppy other than shoots his mouth off and makes profits of puppy, you really push your weight around.
ttuuxxx

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 06:10    Post_subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
My "nowhere near good enough" comment related to the quote of Ttuxxx's reply directly above it, not to your work Whodo.

Ok, I've calmed down a tad now. The "nowhere near good enough" comment was simply the trigger. It devalued the work of a lead developer who had laboured day and night to help bring this release into being, and your off-the-cuff criticism belittled all of that effort with a single, glib one-liner. That is what upset me; that and the presumptuous comment about rushing out a 4.2.1 release because of the effect this one problem had on you and your clients, deserving though they may be.

ecomoney wrote:
I noticed my name was put on the list of the testing team in the release notes, I dont know why as I was not asked nor did I request it by you or anyone else.

No-one needed to "ask" - coolpup compiled the list of helpers from those who had posted on the forum, either by testing or suggesting changes. That's where you came in.

ecomoney wrote:
In the social sectors I do most, often things *are* "life threatening". The twenty year old girl who I had crying on my shoulder today weighs just six and a half stone/91lb, as a result of an eating disorder brought on by the stress of potentially losing the home she has lived in for the last eight years. Not being able to open the letters to the Housing Authority she had been preparing on Microsoft Word all night didnt help.

My sympathy to the young lady. All the same, what I was referring to was requests like a link to the root level of the drive. Important in some circles, yes, but not "life threatening". There were a number of issues you saw fit to post more than once in the forum AND PM me about to ensure your voice was heard. Bravo for getting your way, but to turn around and criticise the end product as "not good enough" Mad ... I'll stop there because I'm getting hot under the collar again.

ecomoney wrote:
Did you check that you had received good positive feedback about the new recompiled (and therefore suspect) Abiword package you had recieved from Ttuxxx? Did you test it yourself? If it hadnt been tested it shouldnt have been included "period", a writing tool is not a "nice to have" its a necessity.

Now, see, here we go again with the "attitude"! No, I didn't test every new package included to the nth degree; that's what the alpha, beta and RC versions are meant to give people like YOU the chance to do! Why aren't you booting your own keester for not finding this bug instead of kicking ttuuxxx and me who brought it to you in the first place?

I sure as heck don't think that the "project leader" who hasn't produced a single release (what happened to 3.02CE again?) should be allowed to criticise the processes of a project leader who has released the single most successful CE version (2.15CE) and the most sought after Standard version (4.2 - check Distrowatch) of this mighty little distro, do you?

ecomoney wrote:
I dont want to detract from your good work WhoDo,

But you are, Rob; and not just mine but a whole host of other community members who contributed to the very best of their ability.

ecomoney wrote:
I recognise you are a volunteer like the rest of us, and human with it. Humans make mistakes. There is a lot of well earned backslapping going on about 4.2, but also to be the best we can be then mistakes need to be recognised, rectified as soon as possible, and steps taken to ensure they are not repeated.

If a mistake was made then you are correct. I'm not so sure a mistake was made; at least in the sense that any "gamble" was taken with this release. Like I said, 4 Alphas, 2 Betas and 4 RCs ought to be considered a reasonable test program. We could go on testing and testing and testing, but we both know nothing will ever be "perfect". Sooner or later you have to either poop or get off the pot!

ecomoney wrote:
A more thorough testing schedule with a ticklist, and perhaps a person invited to oversee testing formally for future releases would be a good idea.

Here we go again with that 20/20 hindsight of yours. What the hell do you think MY role was in this release, hmmm?

ecomoney wrote:
Whether you want to call the fix a point1 update, a bugfix or a service patch makes about as much difference as whether you call something an alpha, beta, release candidate or whatever. You could just regress abiword it and overwrite the copies and MD5Sums on the server for most people they dont care as long as it works. What is important is that you FIX IT SOON!!!!

No, what is important is that if you want the right to decide what's important and what isn't, DO SOMETHING TO EARN IT! *Sheesh* Now I'm p!$$ed off all over again! Mad ..... Time for my nanna nap! Rolling Eyes

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 06:31    Post_subject:  

Bugs arnt found in source code, or even necessarily in compilation, they are discovered by packages being deployed and tested out there in the field, and feedback being given back to developers and project managers who will hopefully listen. Sometimes when something goes seriously wrong, I can erroniously "shoot my mouth off" just a little more than I usually do just to try get that across to them. I wouldnt call this "do absolutely nothing for puppy".

May I suggest you read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_development_process

I sure as hell didnt drop out of a University Degree having learnt nothing!!

Like I say, I work with Puppy on a day to day basis in very real world scenarios, and I go to the trouble to report my findings (both bugs and feature requests from the people I work) back. Ive been doing this for many years. All of my clients use OpenOffice because their computers can take it. This is due to the fact that in Britain our Schools/Hospitals/Colleges throw out comparitively fast computers just because they are forced to use Vista. The rest of the Junk - tonnes of it - gets shipped off to the third world for "recycling" (most often dumping), where Abiword is probably their only option to keep them useful and out of their water supply.

I dont use abiword, and I didnt come across this bug or I would have definetely reported it. If I had been asked to be on the testing team (or even knew that I had been added) I would have looked into the new Abiword and also reported it...but I wasnt.

The fact is it was on your computer when you compiled it. Did you stop to test if it could actually open, display and edit documents before you sent it off to be included? Or was just the fact it compiled successfully enough for you and your "valuable time". It would have required one click of your mouse to have found this fault before it found its way into production.

Another thing you level at me is that Im somehow making a money off you guys hard work? I went to some length to explain to you exactly how "corporate" I am on this thread for the planned instructional video I made. I registered a company here because thats what you have to do here to be able to collect computers from schools -for free- and stop them being wasted. We dont all have the priviledge of living in a country so free of rules and regulations like New Zealand. If I was that bothered about making money I would go back to my previous 40k a year job programming Micro$oft Visual Basic for Walmart. I shouldnt even be having to defend myself here because you shouldnt be casting accusations at people you cant back up.

To be honest, I lost all enthusiasm for the video it after your tirade on that thread, and this is why it wasnt made. I really couldnt be bothered to face all of the flack I knew I would get from you about it, however well I actually managed to produce it. I am sure you tone throughout the development process has had the effect of stopping other people contributing to this project too.

Ive been watching you closely throughout this project Ttuxxx, Ive seen you "shoot your mouth off" on regular occasions, criticise others efforts, make gross errors in your work, deny responsibility for them, ignore requests to produce themes for disabled people, and try and overturn the decisions to include key useability features like pWidgets that you yourself wouldnt find "useful" or "important", despite the many requests for them from the people that Puppy Linux is designed to help. Too right your responsible for a lot of changes to puppy linux...but how many of them have been positive contributions?

Ive seen how people with your attitude problem can really ruin the dynamic of a team...and it takes a team to produce an operating system.....not just a compiler. If I was a moderator I would ban your sorry A$$ back to backward teletubbyland where you belong.

Leave the fixes for Abiword on your way out. You can at least clean up your mess.

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ecomoney


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 06:58    Post_subject:  

Sorry WhoDo, you beat me to the click. I can see this raging on for some time.

When I post come from the point of view of my real world clients (worthy as they are), whom I spend most of my time (unlike Ttuxx off my ar$e) helping out . I dont decide what gets included in Puppy, they should. Which packages do they use the most and see as most important? The web Browser and the WORD PROCESSOR. Im struggling to see what actual benefit, on the whole, Ttuxxxs "updated" packages have brought to them, whatever his amount of work on them. I also wonder who else would have contributed more if he hadnt.

Most of the benefits are going to be in the increased hardware support (added by the kernel developers and the driver compilers) and the useability features that you decided to add and Ttuxxx was against. Most of this was done before Ttuxxx even compiled his first puppy package. Im not going to apologise to you for telling Ttuxxx exactly what I think of him (I have my limits as do you), From his own speech on here it sounds as if he should be able to take it. Theres been many the time you have said the same thing to him....or not even spoken to him at all.

Whodo, like I say, I do not wish to bring you down for your efforts, your achievements are undeniable....and the benefit of hindsight is foresight. Hopefully with a better, more formal testing program, major bugs like this will not appear again. Beware of putting yourself above (constructive) criticism, especially from someone that has made mistakes himself, and learnt from them.

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WhoDo


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:07    Post_subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
Sorry WhoDo, you beat me to the click. I can see this raging on for some time.

Not on my account, Rob. I've had my say and that's enough for me. I'm gonna let this one sink to the bottom of the pond now. Arrow

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