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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
libretto pup?
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mclien

Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 62
Location: germany

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar 2009, 15:34    Post subject:  libretto pup?  

I have spend a lot of time to get my Libretto working with Linux (most didn't work)
At least I got it rinnung with puppy 2.10.., sort of.
Hardware (libretto 50ct):
75Mhz Pentium, 15MB RAM, 810MB hdd, vga screen, one PCMCIA slot.
Thats it.
-no install media (always swapping the hdd between my thinkpad an the 50CT)

Pleas don't blame me for not searching the forum for hours..
here are my two ideas to use it:
A) with the lightest puppy around as sort of advanced PDA
B) as an (networking) alarmclock replacement

Must have:
-networking (only PCMCIA drivers needed)
-with nfs and ssh
-sound mpg321, ogg123, wav (maybe overclocking is needed for this)
-something that shows the time (possibly the only graphical programm needed for B))

Maybe it's possible to have it doing two runlevels (alarmclock and 'normal').
For B):
-simply cron to do the wakeuptimes, which is playing songs from a (play)list, with ascending volumesettings. (songs from the servers nfs mount)

To make it easy to install: just a tar archive, wich you copy to a hdd/CFcard, install grub on it (via shellscript), plog it to your Libretto and enjoy

BUT I'm somwhat lost in the beginning: how do I make this changes? Where to start? Which documentation to read first.......
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Libretto100ct

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Ga, USA

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar 2009, 19:11    Post subject:  

Well, I have a Libretto 30, 50, 70, 100, 110 .

Your 50 is already at a handicap with 16MB of RAM. You are further handicapped with 75Mhz and I forget what the bus speed is-it's very low.

A lot of frustration can be relieved by overclocking the 50. You have to take apart the 50 and lift a pin . Or you can go further by doing some limited soldering. But at 16MB you really don't want to do that because the 50 will overheat and shutdown often. However when you jump to 100Mhz with a 60 something bus speed from lifting the pin you will see a HUGE performance boost.

Here's a link to the mod:

http://www.fixup.net/tips/l50.htm

To lift the #15 pin, just carefully use a sewing needle.

If you have never taken apart a laptop, then the above is probably not for you. The Librettos are easy to break if you do not understand what you bare doing.

All that said, without overclocking you will only find frustration trying to use Puppy because of the bus speed making it painfully slow.

So, assuming you go forward.......

Puppy 2.17 Fat Free or 2.16 Dillo Fat Free is the one to use to get the most out of what you have. Sorry but you will have to use the search feature for the link to download. In fact you will have a lot of searching to do and a LOT of trial and error to work within your limitations of that 16MB.

My advice is buy another LIbretto 50 on eBay or the like. They go for as low as $15 at times. Look for one with the other 16MB module bring your Libretto 50 up to a reasonable 32MB. You can resell the 50 for what you bought it for or better yet keep it for spare parts. Your LCD and motherboard will not last forever.

I have a Puppy Libretto Pupplet I have been working on for 6 months, but it's not even near being finished. I'm still learning much and I have limited hobby time.

I'm happy to help as much as I can, but know that there isn't a whole lot of info on these forums about Puppy on the Librettos I have listed above.

I'm working on a How-To article on Puppy on the Libretto, but it to is a way long off of being finished.

There is a Wiki article on the Libretto 50 with Puppy 1 something but it's very lacking.

If you ask specific questions, I will do my best to answer. Using the 50 as a PDA is definitely doable.

Music and such you may be more happy with DOS applications with 16MB. In fact when you overclock the 50, Win98 runs rather well and fast on the 50 and has a lot more going for it as a PDA & music module. Not something you expect to read in a Linux forum, but having tried most flavors of Linux on the 50 and heavily modifying Puppy in particular, I've found many limitations compared to Win98 on the Libretto 50 at 16MB. At 32 it's more of a level playing field where Puppy outshines Windows apps.

It's a very wide subject which is why I have been working on it for so long. I keep finding new and better ways to do things.
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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar 2009, 19:53    Post subject:  

What a great post. I have a Libby 70ct with 32mb RAM (I have not overclocked it), and I'm very much looking forward to a public release of your Libretto puplet. At this point, I'm using Win95 and NewDeal Office suite (DOS)--both OS's work okay, but it'd be great to see Puppy run on it, especially with a 16-bit Orinoco card.

Jake
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Libretto100ct

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Ga, USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2009, 10:27    Post subject:  

This is a preveiw of Libretto Puppy running on a Libretto 70ct with 32MB of RAM. Because of the limitations of the low spec ware, I have not focused on glossy bling, but reasonable speed and ease of use out of the box.

Because it's hardware specic there isn't anything to set up except the wireless and/or network connection. I'm using an orinco_cs wireless card myself so that will be the default.

Anyway thought I'd take away some of the suspense since I was again working on it last night. I'm posting from it now via Opera.

Attached is a screen shot. Not "sexy" like many other Pupplets, but it will rescue a lot of Libretto 50,60 &70's from non-use.

I also have a Libretto 100/110 version but that does have the glossy bling, but it's a lot less ahead than this one.

The Libretto Puppy will run on on 16MB of RAM but you wouldn't like surfing with Opera. Dillo is installed too, so that is an option as well.
puppylibretto.jpg
 Description   Puppy Libretto peak
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puppylibretto.jpg

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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2009, 10:42    Post subject:  

Very cool. What kind of battery life are you getting? I've noticed that with spindown.exe (a DOS hard drive stopper) set to one minute (it works better than Win95 power management), I can get the hard drive to truly shut down during word processing. I save docs on a cf card.

Obviously, the hard drive is up and running while surfing, and battery life on the early Libbys was never great.

Also, what word processor did you install? And wireless card?

It's very impressive,
Jake
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Libretto100ct

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Ga, USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2009, 21:21    Post subject:  

I have gotten all my 1200Mah batteries NIB off eBay for around $8 plus shipping. I get 1hr almost to the minute.

I also managed to get battery chargers for the extra batteries for about as much.

I have a car adapter too, so I'm more or less very portable.

I have a Netgear MA401 Wireless B for the 50 & 70.

I have a Westell Wireless G for the 100 & 110.

Because the Libretto 50 & 70 only do 16bit I'm pretty much stuck in "B".

The Libretto 100 which I over clocked to 266Mz with 64MB RAM , a 20Gig HDD and Wireless G, USB PCMCIA 2 port card, it's the one I travel with most. I don't need much more than that. I can (sort of) play .avi movies in Win98 on the 100 that I have ripped from DVD's on my main P4 box.

Not many public places broadcast in B so that kind of kills the usefulness of the wireless set up of the 50 & 70 outside the house. Though I do use them to set up Routers and such via an Ethernet hard wired card.

I don't do any heavy typing on the Libretto's if I can help it. I save Word Processing for a full size keyboard. If I need to spell check or the like, I do it inside Opera.

AbiWord will work, but for me personally it's overkill unless using a full size keyboard hooked up to the Librettos.

I use mine to read (pdf, e-books, etc) than to write novels. Smile
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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 00:03    Post subject:  

Oh, the MA401--a classic. I use that and Orinoco Gold and Silvers. I've actually played mpeg1 files (tv shows) on WMP 6.4 on the 70CT/Win95B and it limps along.

I did not realize that public places don't always broadcast in B. That's a drag.

I get 2 hours minimum with a Win95/spindown.exe/Word 6 (16-bit) on a 1200mah. And about double that with the extended battery. So I assume there's a fair amount of disk thrashing with Puppy/70ct?

Fascinating stuff, thanks for posting it,
Jake
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mclien

Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 62
Location: germany

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 03:45    Post subject:  

Just looked the screenshot:
Very impressive and exactly what I like: no fancy, glossy blinking b...sh..

So, where can I get the disk image? Smile (I really like to test it).

EDIT:
Networking 'only' needs all PCMCIA drivers (I think there are some cards that work with normal drivers..)
NFS support is still included?
/EDIT

To the batteries: I have experience in enhaching batteries for the Fossil wrist PDA (from 190 to 650mAh), so if there is interesst I can try some things with the libretto. Ideas are:
-putting LiPoly accus into the orignal battery housing
-installing a CFcard/SDcard instead of HDD an useing that space for some extra battery.

BTW: I finally got my hands on a extra 16MB memory
(I also found a company selling 512MB memory modules for the ct50. Is that serious? Assuming thy have thoes menories, will the libretto suport it?)
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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 07:44    Post subject:  

I've always heard that the 50ct and 70ct had a maximum of 32mb RAM.

Jake
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mclien

Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 62
Location: germany

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 07:53    Post subject:  

Me too, but it was never clear, if it was to BIOS limitation or simply, because the memory with this special connector wasn't build.
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Libretto100ct

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Ga, USA

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 08:04    Post subject:  

The batteries I bought were NIB (new in the box) but made circa the mid 90's. I work with dated computers and any battery 13 years old used or unused is going to have it's life cut down. It's an hour using Windows , DOS or Linux. I've read using a CF adapter and drive really extends the batt life because of not using a HDD. I have the adapter but have yet to buy a CF drive.

32MB is the limitation of the max RAM. The 16MB RAM modules are a non standard type and even though some will fit on the board they won't work. Finding RAM for the older Libretto's is like hens teeth. Once in a blue moon they will show up, but cost as much as a Libretto that already has the RAM upgrade. That's why I mention just buying another one for spare parts.

I'm not done with the ISO as I still have bugs and tweaks I'm working through. I'd like to say soon, but probably not for another month. Until wireless is functioning rock solid, which I'm working on, I don't see putting it up for trials. I'd rather have the basics covered than to frustrate anyone and turn them off to Puppy.

As I said, I've been working on building a Libretto Pup for about 6 months and it's only now just shaping up to be user friendly and fast.

I'll keep you posted. I work on it a little bit everyday, so I don't see it being more than a month off. Thanks for your patience.

The "Help" documentation is just as important as the actual ISO because Libretto's from this era have specific quirks that have to be addressed.
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mclien

Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 62
Location: germany

PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009, 14:36    Post subject:  

First thanks for all the work you have allready done.

And an idea for the install: Perhaps an ISO isn't nessessary or even not the best choice at all (my opinion). Because you have to swap the hdd in some other computer a tar archive is nicer:
-plug in the hdd in the host/install computer
-boot live or any other
-copy the tar to the hdd
-install grub on it
And you're done...........

Just my 2cents

mclien
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Libretto100ct

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Ga, USA

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr 2009, 11:06    Post subject:  

I think a tar file is a good idea. I'll do a zip file and an Iso. too. That way, the end user can pick and choose what works best for them.

I'm about done testing, debugging and tweaking to the extent of my limited Linux knowledge.

The screen shot for the Libretto will more or less look the same. The Libretto Puppy for the 70/50 will be released first. Libretto Puppy for the 100/100 will be released after that. one will not work on the other as they have different hardware settings, etc.

Libretto Puppy is built off of Puppy 2.17 Fatfree (By Big-Bass) and has been heavily modified to specifically work well on the older Libretto series of laptops.

Known issues are the end end user is going to have to use the resize option on some program windows. I've preset some of the more used programs to fit the screen, but not all of them.

Release should be May 1st, if not sooner as i'm (mostly) happy with how it looks and runs now. Again most of the limitation is going to be the hardware itself.

BTW: The Puppy Libretto 100/110 version has a working mplayer (thanks to another Big_Bass stripped application) so you can watch videos (tested with .avi) on the Pentium 1 with the odd hardware. Don't expect full screen video. It's not happening,unless you don't want sound. Mplayer works best when run from CLI. I'm playing with it in the 50/70 series today but I don't expect much, if anything.

Anyway......... that's my update. Sorry I took so long to reply.
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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr 2009, 22:35    Post subject:  

VERY much looking forward to seeing this in the flesh.

To give a little more battery life, would it possible to run the OS on a CF card. Something tells me, since the 50CT/70CT can only boot from FD or HD.

Jake
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Libretto100ct

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Ga, USA

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr 2009, 23:18    Post subject:  

Yes a Libretto 50/70 can boot off a CF drive (with an adapter). It's suppose to speed up booting as well as extend the battery time. I have an adapter. I'm waiting for the right deal on a CF drive to buy one. But I've read many webpages where people have had success using the CF in the Librettos.
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