Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Fri 28 Nov 2014, 23:31
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppy 4.2 Bling Or No Bling ANNONYMOUS POLL
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 7 [94 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Author Message
ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 00:53    Post subject:  Puppy 4.2 Bling Or No Bling ANNONYMOUS POLL  

Hi guys, I've been helping out 4.2 a lot. We are about to have a new puppy release in a few weeks or less. There have been some new addons to Puppy, Two in particular, the first one is Pwidgets and I think the boys have done a real nice job of it Smile It looks really nice on the desktop Smile
The issue that I have with Pwidgets is that
-it can't be uninstalled, just disabled, it uses system resources as soon as you boot up. So you can't permanently disable it if your running live, each time you boot up without a pupsave file, you'll have disable it.
-it slows down compiling,
-it also breaks up icons on your desktop when you have the analog clock running on the desktop,which is default by the way.
-It gives your windows a sluggish feel when moving them around.
-it takes longer for your pc to load.

I personally feel it should come as pet package located in root, with a desktop install shortcut that users could delete both files with 2 click.

Next is the icon switcher, with deep thought 4.2, we have a new icon switcher, it changes not just the desktop icons, but the menu icons and the taskbar icons as well, for this to happen 133 exec files are system linked to /root/my-applications/bin, this slows down the fixmenus script around 2-3 times longer than before. I personally would like to get rid off the crazy 133 system links and have one nice menu theme and keep the original 4 series icon switcher, and have a faster and reliable pc.

well this is just a anonymous poll so feel free to cast your vote. I liked puppy better when it was less complicated, less background systems running, less system links, less resources and less things forced on you in general.

Thanks for reading
have a nice day Smile
ttuuxxx

@@@ UPDATE @@@
I made a no bling version Smile
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=289236#289236

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile

Last edited by ttuuxxx on Sun 29 Mar 2009, 02:58; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 01:03    Post subject:  

This is what it looks like, its the 2 bars, one on the left side and one on the right side. Smile with the clock calendar etc.
smewq1.png
 Description   
 Filesize   148.91 KB
 Viewed   2612 Time(s)

smewq1.png


_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
jabu2

Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 45
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 02:27    Post subject: Usability  

This "bling or no bling" thing is touching on what is an important issue for Puppy - usability (aka ergonomics, human-machine interfacing if you like). But this poll will achieve little and is wasting time and resources.

And it's not about widgets or pwidgets - or skins or favourite colours, or more clocks or more weather forecasts (of undoubtedly doubtful reliability Wink ) they are just examples or symptoms.

Surely, Puppy is can be defined as a core OS with uniquely useful attributes (big list of these as we all know) , and with ability via packages/package loaders to add to the core in similarly useful and practicable ways. And for ALL users, ie a wide spectrum?

If this is the Puppy concept, then it is obvious that bling, in whatever guise, should be (a) non-core, but (b) easily added-on.

This has been done already with many superb packages etc and likely to get even more that way with Woofery?

Whether you want bling or no-bling becomes irrelevant. Any user should be able to add or ignore bling - it is not an issue worth voting on, or people wasting time on.

Before ttuuxx "responds" - he has made a couple of good points in the middle of his post e.g. :

1. (stuff) should come as pet package
2. puppy better less complicated, less background systems running, less system links, less resources and less things forced on you[/u]

but they are getting lost in the storm.

And 4.2 is better than anything we've had before, thanks to WhoDo and Uncle Tom Cobley (you're in there ttuuxxx)

- don't doubt it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
panzerpuppy

Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 04:01    Post subject:  

I like the look,but hate the curved bars - make them straight and you have a winner

The grey JWM taskbar looks old and lame - a terrible choice of colors. It doesn't match the rest of the theme.

The desktop looks better than Vista,but the volume and blinky icons look like Windows 3.11.Yuck.
Is there any way to change them?

The clock should also have a thinner frame.

Address these aesthetic issues and make this look the default and you'll have lots of happy users.

The current look of the 4.2 RC2 desktop is awful. Ugly wallpaper,crap widgets and no borders.
The final version should look like an improved version of ttuuxxx's screenshot above.

Last edited by panzerpuppy on Wed 11 Mar 2009, 04:30; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 04:25    Post subject:  

panzerpuppy wrote:

The desktop looks better than Vista,but the volume and blinky icons look like Windows 3.11.Yuck.
Is there any way to change them?
Very Happy

Well JWM isn't my project its Zigberts, To this day I'm the only one who's given blinky a facelift on puppy, The one you see in icewm I made with Photoshop, sshhhhhh don't tell anyone:) I could do it to the JWM but 2 things would have to happen, one I would need the Blinky sources for JWM and zigbert would have to ask, I don't step on people projects. I could do the same with absvolume if I had the sources that was used for it.
ttuuxxx

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
esmourguit


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1288
Location: Sur l'ile aux oiseaux.

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 06:18    Post subject:  

Bonjour,
In France we already have a president bling bling. That is two times too much. Very Happy
I admit that I prefer a version of Puppy without artifice. That's what attracted me in Puppy, speed, ease of use, can do everything I need with a limited resources computer.
Anyone who wants to customize its distribution, may simply add all the gadgets that will make him happy, with pet packages.
This is also why I changed the shutdown menu. See here.
Cordialement Wink

_________________
Toutou Linux - Pets francisés
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2131
Location: buffalo commons

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 07:11    Post subject:  

i like it simple

[i've already said too much]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
gerry

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 949
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 08:30    Post subject:  

I like it simple too. I run Puppy on an old machine, and 4.2 uses more ram and more cpu than 4.12 when it's not doing anything, and it shows.

Gerry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
KJ

Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Above sea level .. about 320m

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 12:06    Post subject:  

KISS ... Please "keep it simple" for those of us that run older and slower boxes but want some newer features. My 16 year old grandson also runs Puppy and loves bling but still can't run much of it on his old laptop as well. He keeps adding until it crawls then backs off for a while.

Also, bling is such a matter of personel preference. There is enought disagreement about which "useful" programs to include and at what performance, memory, and iso size price so just providing a clean compact product that "works out of the box" is quite a task. Some bling.sfs's would be an easy way to make major upgrades, but pets also work for me.

Leave the customizing bling to the puplet developers and end users and keep the official Puppy lean, fast, and friendly.

Thanks for asking ..... KJ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2718
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 12:29    Post subject:  

Well, I voted YES, but I have a relatively fast system so I think that we should consider user opinions that run puppy on slower machines.
_________________
Dpup 487 | Puppy Gallery | My photo gallery | mtPaint works
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
battleshooter


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 1111
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 17:00    Post subject:  

Definitely keep it simple. If you want more, that's what puplets are for. Don't put the developers out of a job Smile

People can always add whatever they want to the original.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Michalis

Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 237
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 18:15    Post subject:  

I also voted No. The reason is because I want my system to be fast, or at least as fast as I want it to be. What I mean is that even if it's going to be included in the final release I want to have the ability to stop and remove pwidgets permanently if I don't want them or if they slow down my pc.

Actually we must remember what's puppy's purpose. Isn't to be lighting fast yet powerful, even in very old computers? Isn't to use the most modern software as possible even in computers 10, 12 years old?

I'm happy that I know that it runs fast on my old computer which is a P2 celeron at 366MHz! And I like that puppy is so light and fast.

Although most of the people probably nowdays use computers fast enough to not even notice any difference in the speed with pwidgets or other eye-candy addons, puppy is meant to be run in computers that the least extra use of cpu cycles and memory will be problem.


I have also to say that till now I haven't use puppy 4.2, so I don't know what's the penalty of using pwidgets, but definitely they must be extra and not build in. After all I believe that eye-candy stuffs must always be added after the decision of the user. Promote them, make two version of puppy 4.2 but give us a puppy without them also.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 432
Location: Garland, TX

PostPosted: Wed 11 Mar 2009, 23:12    Post subject:  

The first thing I do after a new Puppy install is get rid of all the icons except the Earth and the house. You can probably tell which way I voted. But each to their own. I prefer minimalist with the ability to make it as complex as you want later on. I'm sure Microsoft spent millions of dollars doing test sessions to arrive at their answer - and I still do a severe hack of their default when I do a first time setup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6458
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 12 Mar 2009, 01:58    Post subject:  

Quote:
this slows down the fixmenus script around 2-3 times longer than before

I've asked before, but if there was an answer I missed it. Why do we use fixmenus? It is possible to generate menus from the .desktop file when jwm starts/restarts (I think by way of a tiny executable), and I'm sure I've seen icewm do the same. It is incredibly fast, and way less annoying than the long wait while petget updates the menus every time you install a package... although I still don't understand that, as fixmenus only takes a couple of seconds when I run it manually.

Quote:
If this is the Puppy concept, then it is obvious that bling, in whatever guise, should be (a) non-core, but (b) easily added-on.

Yes please. Think EZpup too.
I would apply this to:
- unnecessary stuff being turned by default.
- unnecessary stuff being put in the CD (unless it is extremely small or useful to the majority of people).
- default themes and stuff that might look pretty but make things hard to see... the default theme in Puppy 4 is a bad example Sad Making things clear without looking ugly is actually something M$ has traditionally done reasonably well Smile The icons particularly in Windows/Office 2000 are some of the best around for being clear at very small sizes.

_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Thu 12 Mar 2009, 05:00    Post subject:  

bugman wrote:
i like it simple

[i've already said too much]


Not enough

_________________
Woof Mailing List | keep the faith Cool |
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 7 [94 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1133s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0052s) ][ GZIP on ]