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Trying to migrate from Windows to puppy unusual application
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 19:48    Post_subject:  Trying to migrate from Windows to puppy unusual application
Sub_title: New application : could be simple ~ could be impossible??
 

This problem has several parts. TWO OF THEM are related apps. I will summarize or give links to save space.

I have used Windows for this application since it WAS only available for this OS. The software firm finally produced an application developed for Ubuntu 8.04. The application and OS work. The application as two components Server and Client. The Server can be any Os and the client can be any OS. Ubuntu is a huge OS that needs to be thinned out for my application. I have several constraints: I need to have the PC use the minimum power as possible, since it will be solar powered. Presently, I have run Ubuntu AND Puppy on an Aopen MODT MiniPC using an Intel core 2 Duo. The machine still draws too much power for my application.

Note: When my application is run under WINXP both cores are running 90-100%, with very little going on. When using Linux OS, I am running at only 5% with the same system. The goal is to reduce the power requirements of the hardware to reduce battery requirements. I tried an old Celeron using Linux and my application---cool as a cucumber.

I have made a list of 6 different pc's to try. These include microPC's using 500 Mhz Geode and other low power microprocessors.

I am trying to connect the dots with three separate technologies.... A B and C.

A) Recently, I discovered a totally new approach to solve low power PC issues using CLOUD computing. The PC only draws 2 watts - CherryPal. Pleae see these links for a description.

1) Explanation of Cherrypal and CLOUD computing
http://ipoppedthecherrypal.blogspot.com/

2) http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2008/08/04/story6.html?ana=from_rss

3) http://thecherrypalchronicles.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-official-welcome.html

4) http://cherrypal.blogspot.com/

5) www.cherrypal.com

Okay--> now hold the thought about the CherryPal and its cloud computing for extremely low powered apps.

B) I am using a Linux based software as "Server" that will allow me to use most any browser on a "client" PC to control the "Server". The client PC can use Windows, Linux or Macintosh OS's

The Linux based software is called Exacqvision ip NVR. Descriptions and test downloads are found at http://www.exacq.com/products.html and at
http://www.exacq.com/downloads.html Exacqvision server installer Version 3.2.7.14777 for 10.24.2008 Ubuntu 6.06/8.04 Debian Package.

This software allows a PC called the "server" to take Mjpeg images from another server embedded in a network camera and either stream the images to the client and/or record and process the images using embedded sofytware of the camera. the functionality works well on an old Celeron and any PC client using any browser.

C) I have a SIMILAR application that works similarly but ONLY for WINXP on EACH side. But this software does an amazing feat! When you are observing the server images remotely via the client you can automatically trigger a port to stream a software program up from the server to the client. The client can now have almost 90% of the functionality of the server. This is important, because the raw powerful computing power of the server runs the client software---sort of reminds you of item A above?

I can get all components of the software coding from the software vendors. This implies that all I need is ONE side of the Server client system to do the processing. And that side only really NEEDS TO BE only as powerful as a Celeron. The application is actually running over a cloud.


GOALS:

1) Get puppy OS to run my application server and client sides. Working on this.

2) Locate the smallest, fastest, computer that can run on batteries and be recharged via solar power that can run puppylinux and my ubuntu 8.04 compatible application software. Working on this.

3) To assist the small low powered PC (such as a CherryPal) I need to virtually change the side defined as server (where the camera with built in network server is located) to act as a virtual client as in item 3) above use the former Client side with a more powerful PC on the network as a virtual Server. Don't know how to do this in Linux.

Summary: Instead of having a huge powerful server PC on the camera side (it will be solar powered) I will configure it as the "client" (it is really the server), so that the formerly low power prequirement remote pc--such as a notebook PC can really be the server.

I will be tying elements of A B and C together, so my system will work without being hooked up to an AC main power supply. My network is wireless and I am using the Sprint (USA) EVDO Rev A CDMA system. I have had systems up for as long as 6 months - uninterrupted - unattended using off the shelf COTS software and hardware. BUT the BIG issue is the large amount of power that is sucked out by Windows OS on either side of the network. Its terrible---what a waste of energy and resources to do something that is really not that difficult.


If anyone is interested in giving me any information that can help me understand or develop this application please send me an email. The applications are too numerous to describe. Suffice it to say, it will be possible to remotely control and monitor a home security or video webcam system in HIGH DEFINITION. All the equipment /softwware is getting cheaper daily, but the MFG only market to certain large markets and they don't seem to care about power waste.

Puppylinux can help save energy and help with security. you should have seen how Microsoft Process Explorer (free app from Microsoft) indicates that MOST of the power of these wonderful new microprocessors Intel core 2 or Quad cores ONLY goes to running the operating system. Its such a waste.

Floordog

info@megarecorder.com
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 20:19    Post_subject:  

Oh, I see. You want help from the volunteers in the Puppy Linux community: kind of like an unpaid cadre of R&D testers to help you launch your commercial enterprise.

Who was the surgeon who performed your shame-otomy?

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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 20:28    Post_subject: Reply
Sub_title: No its for my personal use.
 

If we could encourage manufacturers to get away from Windoze it could solve lots of problems. They are lazy because of the time it takes to do real coding.

I don't get paid a dime. The issue is the problem, not the motivation to solve it. I may have solutions for many other apps, ask and I'll send them to you at no charge. Don't be paranoid. You know consumers hate command line, thinking and Linux.

If you have an idea, let me know. The operating instructions for one of my "consumer" cameras is 192 pages long. Does this sound like a "big" market?

I no longer code, I am app-entric and a hardware person. I have enough problems with my solar panels.

floordog


floordog
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 20:37    Post_subject: reply
Sub_title: test run
 

Hi, I was thinking, the long verbiage of my post doesn't do justice to the application. If you have a windows machine, I can send you a link. The app is very powerful but it was designed for a completely different market than I am using it. In fact, the potential "market" is so small that its difficult to believe why they spent the time to code it. hint: To "protect" their software, they use a long PCI Exp card (doesnt do anything) as a dongle. unbelievable.


floordog
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 20:42    Post_subject:  

A request and a suggestion:

1) Please stop DOUBLE POSTING.

2) Hire a tech.

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 20:46    Post_subject:  

I removed the duplicate thread. Since ttuuxxx had replied already there, I quote it here for consistency's sake.
ttuuxxx wrote:
alienjeff wrote:
See http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=245524&sid=363526216f5c1c51f3ff3878f021991e#245524

Nice link Jeff, LoL that was funny
ttuuxxx

I haven't actually read this thread yet. I'm busy with something else. I'll come back later and read/scan through it.

EDIT: also removed duplicate posts.

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 02 Nov 2008, 22:38    Post_subject:  

So you are attempting to:
    Set up basic software on remote machine to grab data from camera.
    Set up basic software on remote machine to transfer the data and the program to local machine.
    Local machine runs program to process data.

And your issue that last step.

Or am I making it too simple? Does the server have to interact with the client while the client processes the data?

I don't have answers. Just trying to clarify what you're looking for.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Wed 05 Nov 2008, 23:30    Post_subject:  

Dude, just use thinstation http://thinstation.taylorsolutionsonline.net/TSoM/ to quickly create a custom system

thinstation.org is the main site

You can even custom build an image with the minimal components for your system right from the site (like nimblex but for thin clients and much much smaller images including net boot, pxe, iso ...)

Edit: I forgot the cherrypal was non x86 so you would likely have to run Debian or NetBSD (or just do a search on distrowatch for the proper architecture) OR use the ebox from wdlsystems.com or a DecTop from dataevolution.com (replace the HD with CF + adapter) both are under 10 watts and under $100
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 02:27    Post_subject: clarification
Sub_title: re:re
 

Thanks for your reply. It can be very complex and simple at the same time.

I'll try to get there in stages:

software:

Stage 1) I am trying to run Exacqip NVR server - Ubuntu 8.04 ready- using Puppy.

Reason 1) The Winxp version of app is an energy pig (windoze) and I can't run my app using solar. The app+WinXp requires a Core 2 to do minimal operation at high power deficit. Draws over 60 watts on a MODT core 2 Duo. (Aopen miniPC)

Reason 2) Same app runs on Ubuntu 8.04 very cool, no major issues, but still sucks up too much power because Ubuntu 8.04 does much more than I need. I only want one app on the O.S. The pc will be unattended. I am newbie with puppy, and puppy looks ike it can solve problem of power drain.

Hardware: Presently using Aopen Minipc with Ubuntu 8.04 + app, but way too much power drain.

Have plan A and Plan B to improve hardware.

Plan A: fit-PC slim www.fit-pc.com uses 500Mhz AMD Geode. Its is small but case is the heat sink. gets HOT Not efficient use of power.

Plan B: Waiting for latest Atom sub mini-ITX mobo. Last tests I read showed that the Intel Atom was much more energy efficient than the new VIA chip.

If I resolve software issues, I will have to wait for hardware to try solution.

Thanks for any help.

Stage 2 and stage 3 can wait. Stage 2 uses only the camera as a server, but with unreliable /slow connection to internet ( 500k up) , this would not be reliable. It has worked but not well. My camera kicks out 30mb/sec! A small local PC /with NVR app can throttle it down and control it. It works with Aopen but power hog at 60 watts.

These devices (PC's) are tiny.

I was thinking of a cell phone (embedded) can do most of the app and more, a pc should be able to do it.

Thanks

Floordog
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 02:36    Post_subject: thinstation solution
Sub_title: response
 

I have never heard of this. I like the idea. I will start studying. My application requires super low power, so I disassemble the camera and modify it for even lower power requirements. In my area, in the winter months, the cloud cover and angle of sun ar so low that I can only get a few hours of useable sunlight. Thanks for idea. I am using a 20ma recycle timer to turn my camera off and on at intervals to save power. I know it sounds kludgy, but it works most of the time. So many devices are power hogs and require mains power. I have several solutions--simple for anyone who asks. Example: I have a CHEAP small solar powered IR illuminator for night only use that is VERY low power yet works.

Thanks for your help

floordog
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 02:36    Post_subject: thinstation solution
Sub_title: response
 

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 04:05    Post_subject: geode gx466  

technosaurus mentioned ebox, but the 200 mhz SiS is already phased out. Your best chance is the Geode 466 - here is an example.

Minipup (Puppy Linux regression 2.02R) has been tested well on that machine.

Add: I recall that someone has developed through this forum a camera system for the ebox using Puppy Linux.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 11:41    Post_subject:  

I wouldn't discount VIA for the atom just yet - when you account for the North/South-bridge I think VIA is still winning, not to mention that if you plan to use streaming video most newer VIA chips have built-in mpeg2 (some have Mpeg 4 too I think)compression support and will thus draw waaaaaaay less power while streaming video (wdlsystems.com has quite a few small via PCs in an ebox size form factor for about the same price as the cherry - or you could just use a VIA Artigo nano-pc kit - very small and efficient)
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 16:29    Post_subject: Reply
Sub_title: Thanks
 

Thanks for the reply and ideas. The Star is no lnger sold by my distruber. It has been discontinued. I usally go through capuccinopc.com for my SFF pc's.

I this application I usually use streaming jpegs--mjpeg since they are high resoluion images (SXGA or greater to 5 MP images) My frame rates are low--only 4 FPS. I only transmit changed images to keep the bandwidth down. I use in-camera motion detection. When the SDK for the camera can be used by the NVR software, it makes for very efficinet bandwidth ujse. I will migrate to the newer subpart ten of MPEG4 ---h.264 as it is improved.

One more constraint. I am using a wirleess network consisting of either 5.8 GHz P2P and/or the Sprint EVDO REV A . They work great as configured now. My record is 100 days of NO crashes, unattended using Sprint with three megapixel video cameras at full resolution-10% MJPEG compression. My only problems are too high power requirements and trying to get my camera server/client smaller as well.


Thank you -- thank you about the link to forum on puppy. I will study that.

I am a camera nut. I modify them, experiment with them and redesign them. I have a camera that can see 180 degrees horizontal with NO distortion! Why use a speed dome that must be smart to follow a person when you can watch everything.

You can visit my test site at www.justin.tv type in search "floordog"

They provide FREE video streaming 24/7. Its called life-casting. It may look weird but I need the bandwidth for my experiments. That black camera with four lenses--- Russian - I modified it so all four frames are stitched together HIGH DEFINITION 8 megapixel images streaming.

It is stitched before it is sent. Pretty amazing. Especially since it now works with NIR at 940 nm. I use a 10 watt 940 nm CW laser. It has range to one mile with HD cams . I can't sell it because it is not eyesafe. To dangerous for non-tech. It will not cause damage greater than ten feet away. You can not see the beam with your eyes only. The Quantum Efficiency of the sensors are only 20% but I have to lock down the iris to 50%--its that "bright" using f 1.2 telephoto glass. I use it in my front yard for security. If anyone gets within 150 feet it starts recording. Display is on wall with HD projector. 180 degrees FOV is cool at night. Check out justin.tv

floordog
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floordog

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon 10 Nov 2008, 11:49    Post_subject: Weirdness in PuppyOS 4.1.1
Sub_title: Networking issues
 

About two years ago, I had one of those Windows moments. LOL You know, you are in a hurry and up against the wall with work, and Windows decides to CRASH BIG! You throw money at it, tech support etc etc and hours later you still have a big MESS. So THAT is when I discovered puppy! I built Live-CD's of most all the Linux Distros and tried them one at a time to stop my painful addiction to Windows. Only two worked with my hardware. One of them was Puppy. But alas, lack of functionality with my favorite apps pushed me back into the nasty Windows habit again. I tried "windows recovery", but it is a long road as many of you must concede. I am now on a "Windows 12 step" program to stop the addiction. About once every 6-12 months I take a peek at puppy and smile. Someday, I'll get rid of this bad Windows habit! Psychiatrists say that the main difference between somone who is normal or insane is that the normal person learns by his mistakes. When you get bit by a rattlesnake, you quickly learn not to play with them. But we still use Windows?

Issue: I tried PuppyOS 4.1.1. It works great...kind of sort of. I set up the lived CD, no problemo, but when I tried networking -->problems.

1) PuppyOS 4.1.1 recognized ath0 and configured everything with my wireless router but ONLY only in unencrypted mode. It would not respond in WPA mode after the password prompt. I spent several hours trying, and no solutions.

2) PuppyOS 4.1.1 would not allow me to go online using Eth0. I know the routine, but it would not work. After a few hours of trying different drivers, I started Live CD installs of older puppyOS's. The PC I am using of course must be newer, that's what Windows does to you: Buy faster a faster computers to handle slower and slower Windows. About 6 different old PuppyOS's had the same problem, so "I" or my PC must be the problem!! ---> until I found PuppyOS 3.01! It fired right up, no problems on Eth0 using the same drivers I had set up under PuppyOS 4.1.1. What happened? Same drivers for Eth0!

3) PuppyOS 4.1.1 could not detect my USB wireless data card.

Any ideas? Why did the old puppy see my ethernet network and work within seconds?

4) I partitioned my hard drive into NTFS for WINXP, EXT 3 for Ubuntu 8.1 , EXT2 for PuppyOS 4.1.1 and a partition for Linux swap.

The Ubuntu 8.1 set up the boot for me from its liveCD. I used Gparted to make the EXT2 partition for PuppyOS 4.1.1. I saved my last PuppyOS 4.1.1 session on the EXT2 hard drive partition.

How do I tell the boot loader to allow me to have a boot choice directly to puppy without using the LiveCD?
I have the following options:
+ Ubuntu 8.1
+ Ubuntu 8.1 recovery
+ memtest
+Other OS: WinXP

I would like to add PuppyOS to this directory. I may have to replace 4.1.1 with 3.01?

I like the new improved Puppy except for the networking issues. Ubuntu 8.1 is amazing! After a few ubuntu screw ups (actually it was windows causing the problem--it hates other OS's on the same HDD) a few years ago.

The new ubuntu 8.1 automatically did EVERYTHING from all networking set ups---wired and all wireless including my data card, all video and image and audio codecs. And most all required plugins for the browser were already installed. M$ft is still messing with Mozilla. You can't access hotmail when using Mozilla -Linux. Opera works fine though.

Floordog
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