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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Project Ripple [in development]
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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tombh


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 422
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct 2008, 08:26    Post subject:  Project Ripple [in development]
Subject description: A Compiz-Fusion Puplet without any other window managers
 

Usually Compiz-Fusion will run on top of an existing window manager such as XFCE, GNOME or KDE. So what Ripple will hope to achieve is a desktop environment where Compiz-Fusion itself is the sole window manager. Therefore, in order to replace functionality usually provided by panels/taskbars/desktops, we're planning on using Cairo-Dock, gDesklets and ROX.
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tombh


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 422
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct 2008, 08:33    Post subject:  

dinky wrote:
I'm not as partial to screenlets Tom, the project seems much less supported and last look it was a bugger to install things... gdesklets is so much easier.


I know what you mean there, but you thing I remembered is that we're going to need to provide the XDG menu system somehow, you know, like a start button. I don't think Cairo-Dock can do it, can gDesklets? I know that there is a "Menu" Screenlet, that just pops a window of the menu system, pretty handy for us.

Quote:
I like the latest cairo dock, now that it's more stable


Where are you getting that from?
Quote:

I also really like Avant Window Navigator, and wonder if it could be included as well.


Aswell? can they both be used at once?

Quote:
Had no luck with your rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-filer/PuppyPin script Tom, nothing happened.


Do you have ROX installed!?
Quote:

Also the JWM (or is it ROX?) desktop doesn't support anything other than icons... no files placed there, no folders, etc.


Yeah I'm not a big fan of that either, but it is standard Puppy, as provided in Barry's official releases.

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dinky


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct 2008, 11:22    Post subject:  

Ok, had a few more minutes to play around with it. Firstly, I'm not a fan of JWM, and definitely not too excited about Rox. It's just too basic... that said, I have gotten Rox working with compiz-fusion, and there are definite benefits. That hotpup works as it should is one of them, with drive icons appearing on the desktop. I still find Rox really irritating as a file manager.. I wonder what other options there are?
The problem with starting rox was the code you gave me... needed to have a capital "F" in the /ROX-Filer , not "f".

Re the menus, that is an issue. Not sure about Cairo Dock, but with AWN there is support for menus. That's one of the things I like about it. I'm fairly sure Cairo Dock has something similar, but will have to get back to you about it. I've seen screenshots from Wow with both AWN and Cairo Dock, so I know they work together. Wow's mentioned lots of libraries for AWN... actually, I don't think there are that many if you don't run a gnome desktop... I'll look into compiling that. If nothing else works, we can always use submenus in cairo dock to create a menu... just creating launchers for the programs in /usr/share/applications. Tedious, but might be a good way to go if we can't get menus functioning properly.We could also use screenlets, but lets see if there's a better way first.

The thread for Cairo Dock is here, Wow recently updated it:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26488

Will keep playing around over the next week and let you know how I go.
~dinky
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dinky


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 11:54    Post subject:  

Hi Tom, ripple i awesome. Ditched the rebuild idea from unleashed for the time being, until I figure out all the configuration issues. So I'm using Puppy 4.1 straight, and simply adding things to it. Rebuilding from unleashed will be better once I sort out what goes where, as we can take out most of the programs we don't need. But for now, I am running Ripple, and loving it!

Am using Rox for file manager, wallpaper, and desktop manager; compiz-fusion for windows manager; cairo-dock for panel, taskbar, and system tray! And gdesklets for added functionlity. I'm starting to enjoy Rox. There are lots of features I didn't know existed... being able to iconify onto the desktop is a great one...

Anyway, more later, I'm knackered and am going to bed.

~Mitchell
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 12:35    Post subject:  

actually if you use rox as the desktop you can get icons instead of using compiz's half butt wallpaper support (no icons AFAIK but offers multiple wallpapers)

I don't remember if rox can do multiple wallpapers

but... that shoots the whole idea of using cairo-dock etc... since the whole idea is to get rid of the icons and prevent the clutter

compiz + rox http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=desktl2.jpg

dock/allpurpose panel http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=taskbarjh0.jpg

also notice from the first screenshot it includes an xdg menu and another upshot is that rox is probably smaller than cairo-dock + awm etc...

follow the instructions here: http://roscidus.com/desktop/node/93
and here http://roscidus.com/desktop/ROX-All
to install rox and it is meant to be... awesome that is Smile


oh and the zeroinstall crap is a pain so if you use any roxapps please .pet them and disable zeroinstall

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dinky


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 23:54    Post subject:  

@cb88
Thanks for that! I'm being convinced differently about Rox... it's just the default puppy install that I find boring and too simple, this looks great!

Spent a long time playing with it last night, and think we should definitely keep it for Ripple.The default install on Puppy is able to be spiced up quite a bit... I had no idea that applications can be iconified onto the desktop! Found out that using Cairo-dock they are also shown in the dock... now that's cool.

I'm more inclined to use what puppy already has, rather than recompiling rox differently. Also, keep in mind the point of Ripple is to use Compiz-Fusion as the window manager, not anything else. Perhaps Rox is a possibility for the WM as well if Compiz won't work on some computers.

I think it's possible to have a nice balance using Cairo-dock and Rox desktop icons together. I also like the current support in Puppy for Rox... icons appearing on the desktop for drives and usb devices is great.

You're right, Compiz only support multiple wallpapers, which is kinda cool... but for now I think the Rox Desktop is better. Would be great to get them both working. I'm having another think about AWN, I don't think it's necessary. If I can get Cairo-Dock properly configured, and sort some kind of xdg menu working, that should do us. Any thoughts on the xdg? WHat do I need to install using Rox to get this going? Also looking at Wow's suggestion of lxsession-lite. Anyway, see how I go.

@tombh
I'm playing with this on my eeepc, using an intel graphics card. Do you want me to make an iso of what I've done (remaster of puppy 4.1 at this point) to post up here? You'll have to play around with it to get compiz working on your machine, assuming it's different from mine. After it's configured properly (going to take some time, I'm afraid), we can work out what applications to include. If you want to keep it small, we can have sfs extensions available for people to add onto Ripple once installed. (i.e., 100ish Mb, then sfs add-ons with gimp, Xine, Openoffice, etc.)
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri 24 Oct 2008, 09:53    Post subject:  

Rox (the app itself) isn't a wm... it is a panel/dock file manager and background manager though

for the menu app you will need to have python and pygtk installed (the non tombh ccsm .pets neet python too... the ones he made are static IIRC)

also rox has a session manager... called rox-session i think

rox in puppy is striped down a bit... missing its auto installer (0aliaz and 0install... if you had them you would just download the Rox-All launchers and when you click on one that is not installed it is downloaded and installed also not the installer is distro independant and therefore not really ideal)

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fabounet

Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri 24 Oct 2008, 10:46    Post subject:  

Hi,
Cairo-Dock has an "Applications Menu" applet, called GMenu, since the 1.6.3 version.
it is merely a port of the Gnome-panel menu applet, so it should work on any XDG compliant plateform. Smile

Also, consider using the Cairo-Dock's Desklet, it may save some memory/CPU compared to a combination with Gdesklets, and it may lighten your dock by reducing the number of icons inside.
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dinky


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Sat 25 Oct 2008, 08:20    Post subject:  

Thanks Fabounet, aren't you one of the main developers of cairo dock? Great program. Unfortunately I'm stuck for the moment using 1.6.1.2, as that's the latest version wow has compiled... my time is limited and I've been hoping not to have to make another build...lol. Any advice on this one? Or better yet, are you able to provide a build for me yourself? Either tar or pet would be so wonderful.

i don't think tombh was ever that keen on avant-window-navigator, and from what I've seen now I'm not that keen on using it either. I think Cairo dock will be more than enough. Re widgets, good point. I've thought of just using Cairo dock's, and run into 2 issues.

1. gdesklets has many more desklets than cairo dock currently does, and it seems fairly easy for people to make more... using gdesklets would garauntee a wider base than what cario dock currently offers. Likely we'd use one or two desklets installed by default, then provide a link to users where they can download more. Desklets are also ridiculously easy to install... simply drag the tar package onto the manager, and they're in.
2. Cairo dock's widgets, while good, aren't as clean. For some reason they have a sqaure border around them, haven't figured out why yet. This doesn't look as good.

On the possitive side though, it would make the iso smaller. Currently I have gdesklets set on the widget layer in ccsm.
Code:
name=gdesklets

How do I define the cairo dock desklets to be on this layer also, without hiding the dock? Thanks!
~dinky
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4348

PostPosted: Sat 25 Oct 2008, 10:19    Post subject:  

With a name like Ripple you should totally use a Pug as the mascot or even just name it Pug (which could also stand for Puppy Users Group) ... I'm only half serious but at least it would be more distinguished from RiP Linux (Recovery is Possible) which is roughly the same size as Puppy Linux.
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dinky


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Sun 26 Oct 2008, 05:14    Post subject:  

Hmm. Pug. interesting thought... I'm more inclined to think of perhaps a water logo, with ripples... not too sure about this whole puppy dog mascot thing, a little bit sacharine for me. What do you reckon tombh? I'm able to be swayed...lol
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dinky


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 08:05    Post subject:  

Have just been playing around to get an xdg meni working... arrghhhh....

Rox would be great, except that the xdg menu is an applet for the panel... scratch that idea. unless mistaken we're unable to use it independently of it's own lovely accord. So Rox xdg out the window. Had a go at compiling cairo dock 1.6.3, and failed everytime with glitz.... glitz is installed, as it's needed for the version of Cair Dock I have running, but can't get the new compile to recognize or find it.... it is, of course, entirely possible that I have no idea what I'm doing. Anyone able to give any advice on compiling, or to be so kind enough as to make a pet for version 1.6.3 of cairo dock, and move this project ahead?
~dinky
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4348

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 22:57    Post subject:  

http://puppylinux.ca/tpp/jb4x4/XFCE/cairo-dock/cairo-dock-1.6.2.3-i486.pet
http://puppylinux.ca/tpp/jb4x4/XFCE/cairo-dock/cairo-dock-plugins-1.6.2.3-i486.pet
http://puppylinux.ca/tpp/jb4x4/XFCE/cairo-dock/cairo-dock-themes-1.6.2.3-i486.pet

Sorry this is the closest I could get using the online Petch
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afgs


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 05:34    Post subject:  

Quote:
perhaps a water logo, with ripples...
ripple.png
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ripple.png

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nutts4life


Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 263
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 06:08    Post subject:  

tombh / dinky,

I've sent you message. Check your inbox.

n4l
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