Need suggestions for installation type

[_MegadetH_]

Hi! I'm new to Puppy Linux. I think it's very good and fast, better than Xubuntu.
I have a pentium III 650 Mhz with 320Mb ram.

1) Which installation type is better for my computer? I'd like to install to hard disc to run without cd inserted.

2) After the Hd installation will my system run faster or lower than boot cd live?

3) I'd like to know there are advantages or not having an hd installation.

thanks in advance

[smokey01]

Hi! I'm new to Puppy Linux. I think it's very good and fast, better than Xubuntu.
I have a pentium III 650 Mhz with 320Mb ram.

1) Which installation type is better for my computer? I'd like to install to hard disc to run without cd inserted.

2) After the Hd installation will my system run faster or lower than boot cd live?

3) I'd like to know there are advantages or not having an hd installation.

thanks in advance

_MegadetH,

A full HD installation is likely to be the fastest however the frugal install is by far the easiest to maintain. The frugal will be faster than the CD boot. 4.1RC boots on my machine in just under 30 seconds.

[_MegadetH_]

_MegadetH,

A full HD installation is likely to be the fastest however the frugal install is by far the easiest to maintain. The frugal will be faster than the CD boot. 4.1RC boots on my machine in just under 30 seconds.

which machine do you have? With my PIII 650mhz 320mb ram will frugal installation run well?

I read frugal install saves everything into a single file called pup_save.2fs. For example if I download new mp3s or other files they'll store into pup_save.2fs. Is it possible to browse inside pup_save.2fs to copy for example an mp3 to external hd?

thanx

[Béèm]

I read frugal install saves everything into a single file called pup_save.2fs. For example if I download new mp3s or other files they'll store into pup_save.2fs. Is it possible to browse inside pup_save.2fs to copy for example an mp3 to external hd?

If you download a file, mp3 or other, there is no need to store it in the pup_save first. I download directly outside the pup_save.
The same for saving doc's, spreadsheets, etc.. they are all outside my pup_save.
I use the pup_save for installation of new programs mainly.

[_MegadetH_]

I read frugal install saves everything into a single file called pup_save.2fs. For example if I download new mp3s or other files they'll store into pup_save.2fs. Is it possible to browse inside pup_save.2fs to copy for example an mp3 to external hd?

If you download a file, mp3 or other, there is no need to store it in the pup_save first. I download directly outside the pup_save.
The same for saving doc's, spreadsheets, etc.. they are all outside my pup_save.
I use the pup_save for installation of new programs mainly.

I think I will make a frugal installation. If I've understood well with frugal, if one day I'll have a problem with the system, I can restore it loading pup_save and I will have again all configurated programs I've installed before.

[Sage]

Oh no, double posting rears its ugly head again. John seems to be sunning himself in San Tropez - haven't had a response from him to any of my missives recently. Save me a red-head, John....

[Sage]

Bad choice. FULL installation will boot and run more reliably and you won't have to worry about juggling with compressed files if you decide you need bigger allocations, w.h.y. FULL installations respond to UPGRADE through the PUI. You are not short of memory and presumably not short of hard disc space. When you work with plain, simple files that are only compressed by inherent HD algorithms, you always know what you've got. Keep .sfs filing and frugal installs for liveCD and keyfob deployments. All the arguments have been aired here countless times. If you haven't researched the foregoing now would be an excellent time to review the pros & cons.
Perhaps you're not old enough to remember the wonders that were DriveSpace and the third party clones?!
Don't forget the swap partition.

[_MegadetH_]

Bad choice. FULL installation will boot and run more reliably and you won't have to worry about juggling with compressed files if you decide you need bigger allocations, w.h.y. FULL installations respond to UPGRADE through the PUI. You are not short of memory and presumably not short of hard disc space. When you work with plain, simple files that are only compressed by inherent HD algorithms, you always know what you've got. Keep .sfs filing and frugal installs for liveCD and keyfob deployments. All the arguments have been aired here countless times. If you haven't researched the foregoing now would be an excellent time to review the pros & cons.
Perhaps you're not old enough to remember the wonders that were DriveSpace and the third party clones?!
Don't forget the swap partition.

I have an 8gb hard disc, I hope it's enough for a full installation and installing some additional programs.
You said full installations respond to Upgrade through the PUI. I think it was for this reason when I installed Amsn from Live cd it didn't run.
I'm sorry I don't know DriveSpace.

Edit: I'm still confused to choose the installation type... in this site http://www.puppylinux.org/manuals/puppy ... stallation I found that is "recommend Frugal Installation, if you have 256 MB RAM or more. If you have less than 256 MB RAM you should choose Full Installation." I have 320Mb so if the site is right frugal could be better, but they don't explain why is reccomended.

[muggins]

@_MegadetH_,

you've got 320M RAM & 8G of hard disk space so, if you wanted to experiment, you can install both to the same partition & compare.

Keep in mind that puppy is small, and quick to install. Seasoned pupsters install puppy in something like 10-15 minutes.

[Béèm]

_MegadetH_
As a test I did a full install on a virtual machine (qemu)
The HDD is 6GB and puppy only takes 376MB.
So plenty of room left.

Unfortunately I can't do a full install of puppy on my laptop.
So I did choose the frugal type with the pup_save file.

But I have had issues with the pup_save.
It has to be increased in size (I had to go to 1.5GB a certain moment)
And I have had corruption also.

So if you go frugal, take a backup of the pup_save often.

As Sage says, full install is more reliable.

[Bruce B]

With my PIII 650mhz 320mb ram will frugal installation run well?

The frugal will use more ram. The amount of ram it uses above the full install is easy enough to determine. Regardless of the extra ram it uses, that amount is ram you cannot use.

I also have file system considerations. You have to mount the host file system and then mount the pup_save file system. Which ever is the slowest device/filesystem in this combination is the maximum file system speed.

[_MegadetH_]

@muggins,
Thnks! I'd like to try both installations on the same partition, but once I installed them how can I choose to load "frugal" or "full" on boot?


@Béèm,
thank you very much for the test you did! you gave useful infos

@Bruce B
thanks! I'm thinking choose full installation, but in future there will be the problem to upgrade, if a new puppylinux will be released. They say full installation is hard to upgrade to new version.

[Bruce B]

_MegadetH_,

The Full has a upgrade option.

Going back to the Windows 9x days, the worst installations I had were upgrades. Second worst installations were installing Microsoft's patches.

Habits were formed. I don't upgrade. I'll take a clean install any day of the week.

When I make a clean install, there are files I will want to move over. A clean install does not mean the destruction of the previous install. I leave the old one in place for a while, until I'm satisfied there is nothing I want from the previous install.

Bruce

[Lobster]

Seasoned pupsters install puppy in something like 10-15 minutes.

It is even quicker than that if you do nothing more than run from CD / DVD
which is very fast on the 4.1rc

HD booting was 10 seconds faster last time I checked
on slower computers or CD booting or computers with low ram
that margin might be more - your system is fast enoght to boot from CD

In my early days with Puppy I was keen to have a dedicated HD to install Puppy to.

For the last few years with Puppy I have never bothered with this HD approach and I have been using Puppy exclusively for aprox 4 years now . . .

You can run and save to CD / DVD (multisession)
however I boot from DVD and save some data in my 'personal storage file' but most stuff goes to the HD

on mnt/home I also keep a bookmarks.html
which I load into the browser to complete a setup

Any extra programs I add from my list
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=DingoAddons

The advantages of CD/DVD booting include:

1. HD can be used to boot Windows or another Linux
without any potential problems associated with partitioning
2. Base OS and programs are completely secure
3. Different configs can still be saved to HD and booted from if one becomes corrupt
4. Puplets can be tested (use 'puppy pfix=ram' during 'boot') without HD install

Whatever you choose
Puppy is different. Faster Simpler, more flexible.
Have fun

[Sage]

in future there will be the problem to upgrade

Now, let's get this straight - this is total nonsense. I've really no idea from whence it originates? The PUI can upgrade a FULL installation - it is written into its menu (but not very obvious, as it only pops up halfway through the procedure). Or upgrading occurs automatically upon running a new CD, vide supra, (although I've found this to be less reliable in some circumstances). The only thing that doesn't work properly is the GRUB update which might affect subsequent rebooting. Three solutions are possible until this is fixed:

don't run GRUB update
run new GRUB install
save the old GRUB file and recycle this one (folks wary of using pfix=ram and text editors, can write the contents of their present <menu.lst> on a piece of paper with a pencil{remember those?} and edit the GRUB file on-screen at boot up simply by pressing 'e' {for 'edit'}).

The last option is probably best for those with complex GRUB files and/or multiple boot options.

Puppy, along with most of these compact liveCD distros is intended to be run from the CD. There are both advantages and penalties in doing this. _MegadetH_ seems to have found only one thread out of thousands?, well hundreds of threads in which all aspects of this issue have been discussed. In the event, I have discovered significant advantages in using FULL installations. But, I have access to about 100 surviving old HDs - anything from ~540Mb up to ~80Gb, a few with bad sectors written out, but still reliably functional!! Early on in this exercise, I also discovered that Barry, and one or two other compact distros, had constructed his code in a way that ensured that HD s could be freely swapped between virtually all boards and cards that come my way on an almost weekly basis. This is an incredible asset for my operations in contradistinction to the mid- and major distros, which invariably fall over at the slightest HW mod.
As others have pointed out, data and other personal stuff can be saved to other directories, other partitions, other media or printed to hard copy, in extremis.
In conclusion, correspondents like, but certainly not limited to, _MegadetH_ would benefit even more by researching his queries in much greater detail before raising contention expressed therein as it relates to his specific issues. Any road up, there you have it _MegadetH_. We look forward to reading the outcome(s) of your endeavours.

Now I have some of my own: _MegadetH_ - is this a contraction of _Megadeath_? A gamer? Is there a special significance to the capitalisation of the 'H'? An initial from his name, perhaps? Am I correct in assuming the underscoring is an anti-scanner ploy?

[_MegadetH_]

Thanks everybody again for your suggestions.

@Bruce B

I had not so much problems upgrading win9x to newer version. I hate Ms patches expecially when they're automatic. I used to disable them and install only service pack.
If I compare win installation, running puppy from cd it is very easy like drinking water glass. no stress:)

@Lobster

I never tried to save data multisessions, but I wonder saving onto hard disc is safer. My opinion is if I save data everyday onto the same dvd/cd will ruin cd causing data loss. Anyway right now, I'm still running from cd without saving data at the end of session because I'm not installing but I'm testing.
Point 4 you described is a big advantage


@Sage

With upgrade I meant to say upgrade puppylinux version to newer. The total non sense was found http://puppylinux.org/wiki/how-tos/gene ... ullinstall
and I quote what I found there:

"A Full install runs faster in low-RAM computers; but is very complex/impossible to upgrade (you wipe and replace with a new version of Puppy) and cannot be placed on a Windows FAT32 or NTFS hard drive/partition."

I don't know if that wiki guide is made well or not, but I've taken it for good.
I've read around searching on google and here too, but I haven't found a detail answer on my particular case.
It is interesting you accessed to very old Hd. I was wondering if I can access to an old Hd I have that doesn't work in windows (I think it is broken). Maybe Puppylinux could read the unreadable.

[OT] _MegadetH_ stands for nothing you said It's the name of a heavy metal band playing from 80s til nowdays. The capitalization refers to the original logo http://www.megadeth.com/downloads/megad ... me_728.gif First and last letter capitalization is because these type of 80s bands like MetallicA use to write their logo like that[/OT]

[Sage]

Thanks for your exposition from the music archives. Afraid my Heavy Metal influence stopped with the originator (Hendrix), still rated best guitarist ever, jazz, classic or pop, maybe side-by-side with Jango?
What you report in bold typeface is utterly wrong. However, it is correct that it is not possible to use FAT partitions for FULL installs. Who cares - ext2.
And, yes! You can make a FULL installation to a 540Mb drive (just - at least, that was so with 3.01); might want to play safe with 4.1 and dig out a 1.2Gb. Use a separate 120-200Mb drive as a dedicated swap drive. Save to a USB keyfob. You really don't need a quad core all-singing-dancing box, just a dusty old reject for 99% of PC activities.

No! no! that's not me (dusty old reject)!

[_MegadetH_]

@Sage

I'm really impressed by how puppylinux is fast running from a cd. I'd like to save onto hd rather then usb, because I'm sure with passing time saved file will become huger than usb capacity.
yes I don't need a quad core, I think a an old pc with a minimal linux distro goes faster than a new pc with vista. anyway vista is a curse for computers.

[ot] I agree Hendrix is best guitarist for its time, because he was innovative. Nowdays I think we've lot of better technic playing (expecially in classic metal) than him. Anyway i agree Hendrix was the guitar innovator [/ot]

[_MegadetH_]

I came back to my thread to ask you a question:
Now I've a full hd install. I'd like to make some pupsav into hd to test some programs without affecting main full install. How can I do it? Is it possible to choose between several pupsav in Grub without using livecd?

[bambuko]

... The total non sense was found http://puppylinux.org/wiki/how-tos/gene ... ullinstall
and I quote what I found there:

"A Full install runs faster in low-RAM computers; but is very complex/impossible to upgrade (you wipe and replace with a new version of Puppy) and cannot be placed on a Windows FAT32 or NTFS hard drive/partition."

I don't know if that wiki guide is made well or not, but I've taken it for good.

You are not the only one to get distracted by this stuff on wiki
Have a look at this:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=31725
it will save Bruce writing it all over again
and is well worth reading in my humble view

Trouble I found, as a beginner, you do not have ability to discern between good and up to date info and confused out of date nonsense ... and there is plenty of both on internet - just because it is written doesn't mean it is any good...

Chris

ps and as for that:

I came back to my thread to ask you a question:
Now I've a full hd install. I'd like to make some pupsav into hd to test some programs without affecting main full install. How can I do it? Is it possible to choose between several pupsav in Grub without using livecd?

have a look here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34795
it is talking about Puppy+another distro, but it is just as applicable to Puppy+another Puppy
You can create many additional partitions for your individual Puppy experiments

Here is yet another (different) solution to your problem:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=35173