To slow - 200 Mhz 64 Mb ram (laptop)

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ledo
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To slow - 200 Mhz 64 Mb ram (laptop)

#1 Post by ledo »

I played around with puppy linux 4.0 these wekeend. I wanted to install it on old laptop 200mhz 64 mb ram. The model is Toshiba 310CDS.

The problem? It's just to slow. What should i do?

Another thing. I played arround with compact flash to ide adapter.

I can use it as a disk to save changes on it (and main .sfs file) but install from universal installer doens't work fot CF to Ide installation type. I can format it. When try to instal it yust doesnt do enything.

I would like to put it on CF beacose its sillent HDD is to loud.

I will browse the internet with it - use it for msn and mail, play some mp3 and write text. Nothing else.

Is there any puplets sutible for me? I tried 12 mb version and its yust to empty. I dont know much abaut linux thats the problem.

I have CD-rom and 1.44 diskete and USB.

I would use the USB key for some kind of frugal install and boot with diskete but the problem is puppy doesnt recognize my USB stick. But on windows everything works. Can i manualy detect it somehow?

I don't mind if its on CF or USB stick yust that is flash and quiet.

What should i do?

P.S. I have CF USB card reader writer too. CF ide adapter is cheap so probably slow. But somehow i must optimize puppy first so it wont be too slow ond these old PC.

I know how to use pet-be-gone but i have troubles with remake of CD.

And i dont know what to remove. I would remowe video stuff for exampel but don't know what i am removing.

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ezeze5000
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re-too slow

#2 Post by ezeze5000 »

You really need more ram.
A swap partition would help too.
Using a CF drive would save on batteries.

I Hope this helps.
If at first you don't succeed try try again!

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ttuuxxx
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#3 Post by ttuuxxx »

I personally would make a large swap drive, then I would install fat free or meanpup, The smaller the better, The older kernel the better, Stay away from puppy 4. Look more at 2.14,2.17 or even 3 retro, I would remove half the programs also that you don't need, like cups, etc thats why the fat free would run run better.
have fun
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

ledo
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#4 Post by ledo »

Yes we are thinking the same.

I managed to Remake CD (custom lice CD) and works fine now.

The problem is if i use CF or USB stick than i can't use swap.

If i put in hard disk its faster but louder and that is not cool. I already have more powerful PC in the room but it makes noise.

For writing text i would like to have sound free PC. And it is with CF.

But it's too slow. Fat -free yes. Only ram is the problem i know. But the other problem is that laptop dont support much more evan if i would like to buy some old ram i can't.

But if i want CF or USB stick as i understand then system must be loaded in memory completly.

But i am not sure i could make it so light that 64 mb ram would be enought.

I would use DSL but the problem is i like Puppy more. More user friendly.

And what to do to detect USB stick and try with that. Any suggestion?

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darrelljon
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#5 Post by darrelljon »

Seconded for MeanPup.

ledo
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#6 Post by ledo »

Ok i will try MeanPup.

ledo
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#7 Post by ledo »

Where to downlooad MeanPup? I search

http://puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old ... /meanpuppy

But no download link.

Edit:

Ok i found these link. http://www.my-plan.org/storage/puppyLinux/ And i will try.

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ttuuxxx
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#8 Post by ttuuxxx »

ledo wrote:Where to downlooad MeanPup? I search

http://puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old ... /meanpuppy

But no download link.

Edit:

Ok i found these link. http://www.my-plan.org/storage/puppyLinux/ And i will try.
http://www.my-plan.org/storage/puppyLin ... -opera.iso
I think that was the latest.
If I had time I would strip apart 3.01 retro for you. But work/family/other puppy stuff not much extra time.
well hope it works for you.
john has mentioned that he might remake a new version. hopefully :)
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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Aitch
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#9 Post by Aitch »

Only ram is the problem i know. But the other problem is that laptop dont support much more evan if i would like to buy some old ram i can't.
ToshibaSupport

http://www.memorystock.com/memory/Toshi ... 10CDS.html

ebay is favourite,

[it's the same memory as for dell latitude cpi]

Aitch
Edited due to long link messing up page, sorry
Last edited by Aitch on Mon 30 Jun 2008, 19:27, edited 1 time in total.

ledo
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#10 Post by ledo »

I see. I could upgrade to 160 Mb memory. That is good. Thanx for link.

Updates on puplet MaanPup.

On my new machine it didn't boot from live cd.

On old laptop it worked. And long story short:

Positive:
-automatic recognition of usb stick works- in version 4 it doesn't recognize it
-faster (i could be used almost normaly at these speeds i think)
-still some things that i could remove easyl with pet-be gone and make it evan faster (smaler)
-basically it has everything 4.0 have.
-instalation on ide-flash CF card works (wersion 4.0 i have trouble and didn't quite maki it work yet - installing)

Negative:
-altough instalation on CF works it doesn't boot. It starts and its fast but somwere in the midle it stops.

Something like Exiting and starting ramdisk... Then it stops.


So i found out version from year 2005 works better on my old laptop and basicaly has everything version 4.0 has for novice users.

I will try older officiall puppy linux distro (the one MeanPup was made from) and maybe CF on Ide adapter will work.

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darrelljon
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#11 Post by darrelljon »

Its funny, using old distros on old machines is a topic that has recently come up on the Ubuntu Forums. I'm sympathetic to using old distros on old machines but many think you should use a modern distro. One of my favourite distros ever is Kanotix 2005-4.

Glad to hear of your good experience with MeanPup, keep us informed. I think it was based on Puppy 1.08.

ledo
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#12 Post by ledo »

Update:

I tested official release 3.01

Positive:
-I could do a install and boot on CF card on IDE adapter !!! Everything worked the first time !!!
-yust a bit faster i think than 4.0 (but much slover then MeanPUp)
-works on old and new PC (Meanpup only on old)

Negative:
-didn't recognize USB stick
-still a bit to slow but it's a full version not striped down one

So bottom line CF works! Boot time abaut 2 minutes. Opeing big programs like abiword 10-20 seconds. Bits od "lag" in everything.

Now i am downloading for test:
puppy-2.17.1-nolzma-seamonkey-fulldrivers.iso

Hope to get CF-ide to work and Usb-stick to detect. Well see.

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ttuuxxx
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#13 Post by ttuuxxx »

I'm tempted to build you a none printer/abiword version based on 3.01 retro.
hmmmm
I have about 1 hr before work
ttuuxxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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davidA
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#14 Post by davidA »

I have an almost identical machine with 96 MB of RAM and a 196 MHZ processor (it's a Panasonic CF-25 Toughbook) Creating a 500 MB swap partition made a world of difference. Yes, it's a little slow (by todays standards) but it's certainly usable.

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ttuuxxx
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#15 Post by ttuuxxx »

what do you use for mail?
do you use www. or seamonkey built in mail?
I usually use www.gmail.com, I don't use any specific linux email programs.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

ledo
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#16 Post by ledo »

I tested puppy-2.17.1-nolzma-seamonkey-fulldrivers.iso.

Hum everything the same like i wrote for 3.01. CF works speed the same. But it looks more like 4.0. Visualy.


I have an almost identical machine with 96 MB of RAM and a 196 MHZ processor (it's a Panasonic CF-25 Toughbook) Creating a 500 MB swap partition made a world of difference. Yes, it's a little slow (by todays standards) but it's certainly usable.
The problem is i use Compact Flash card on IDE adapter. The Laptop is without a sound. So i cant use swap. Everything must be loaded in memory yust like live CD.

what do you use for mail?
do you use www. or seamonkey built in mail?
I usually use www.gmail.com, I don't use any specific linux email programs.
ttuuxxx
I use gmail but would like to have support fr other imap and pop email accounts too. I have a few.


I'm tempted to build you a none printer/abiword version based on 3.01 retro.
hmmmm
I have about 1 hr before work
ttuuxxxx
Hum. I would like to have a printer maybe don't know yet.

Here is what i am thinking.

-Version 3.01 or 2.17.1
-visual style of 4.0 (backround image is realy nice on old lcd monitor with poor colors and i like stardust icon pack.)

-everything that has anything with playing videos must go. There will never be any video played on these laptop. Video player can goo to and codecs for video too.

-mp3 support should stay. But it can be the simpliest possible

-abiword is cool so something as good as abiword for RTF text is cool.

-network support should stay

-i like pidgin oin version 4.0 very much but i didn't test other yet

-everything that doesnt affect my laptop (drivers, grafic mode wizards... should go)

I am thinkig of using pet-be-gone. is that the right approach? How are u planing to make it?

Abaut browsers. Hum. Small? Secure?

Edit:

Hum somehow i must make Usb-stick work. Is there any manual way for that or additional drivers? I would like to save text from abiword and have mp3 music and pictures on usb stick not CF card. And i would like to save sessions on stick not CF card.

And another question. When puppy is turned off and askes for location where to write session an for use for additional space if ram is too low. Wil that space be used only on boot and turn off or is there much read/write cycles all the time?

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ttuuxxx
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#17 Post by ttuuxxx »

I started building you a small version but ran out of time before work, So basically I'll finish when I get home, It think it will be a short day.
As printing goes It takes about 10MB+ to have it, Are you sure you need it on your old laptop?
I can get rid of abiword and give you Siag, its way smaller.
Siag is good for basic documents and runs faster than abiword.
I was thinking of Opera as the browser and yes it has email support built in:
I can get rid of Gxine and install xmms

There's a lot more to do then just using petbegone, shortcuts, menu structure, right click menu, etc
I've already changed the default icons :)
Looks way better
ttuuxxx

Ps you mentioned your usb isn't working, I never heard of that before other than 4.0 dingo new kernel or are you talking about booting via USB?
If so you need to change your bios boot option, on startup, not a puppy issue.
Sometimes you have to flash a bios, if so Be care, you can make your whole computer useless very quick. Its happened to me once and killed my my motherboard for good.
You need the perfect version number of the motherboard not just the make and model, like v1,v2,v3 etc
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

ledo
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#18 Post by ledo »

I don't know about printing.

As for text (RTF) editor - basic functions like the size of text and basic structure like left center right... paragraphs and maybe simple tables.

That's all i need.

Abaut players. You don't have to put anything in. I will evan sacrifise mp3 if its more than lets say 100 Kb. It can be comand line player if its simple to use.

All the codecs for video and other stuff - delete.

Web browser you choose i don't know much about them. The simpliest smalest safest one. I have big PC for surfing these one will be for reading text and vieving pictures on the net. other things don't mather.

Client for MSN with souch nice interface like pidgin would be nice. But if there is small and ugly but does the job let it be. ;)

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Aitch
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#19 Post by Aitch »

The problem is i use Compact Flash card on IDE adapter. The Laptop is without a sound. So i cant use swap. Everything must be loaded in memory yust like live CD.
You seem to be getting yourself confused

a) you can get sound working by running the alsawizard [menu>setup>alsasoundwizard
if at first it fails to load a driver - either soundblaster or yamaha opl3, try legacy isa - but it definitely works , if you have speakers
b) swap has nothing to do with sound and is an entirely seperate process & it is possible to run a small 256-512mb swap in flash
some people don't like it but it works
there is discussion about only saving to flash at shutdown, but you'll have to google it for the outcome

from Barry's original notes
How much RAM is "enough"? Puppy is happiest on a PC with at least 128M RAM. 128M is a good size -- it is enough for image.gz (uncompressed) and usr_cram.fs to both reside on ramdisk.

What if your PC has only 64M, 48M, or even only 32M RAM? Well, usr_cram.fs is not going to fit in the ramdisk. Just ball-park figures, image.gz uncompressed is about 10M, usr_cram.fs is about 50M.

Puppy does have a card up his sleeve, so to speak -- if the PC has a swap partition Puppy will automagically use that, to increase the virtual size of the ramdisk. If you have ever installed another Linux distro on the PC, chances are it created a swap partition, so it is already sitting there ready for Puppy to use. If your PC has 128M of RAM, Puppy will allocate 62M of that to ramdisk, however if the PC also has a 250M (for example) swap partition, then the effective size of the ramdisk becomes 62+250 = 312M!

However, I made a decision with the startup logic of Puppy, only to copy usr_cram.fs into ramdisk if there is at least 62M of physical RAM allocated to the ramdisk. So, for PCs with less physical RAM than 128M, usr_cram.fs will never be copied into ramdisk, even if there is a swap partition.
I don't know if that has changed in later puppies

however see the post from bluedogruns and make swap, IMHO
My first drives purchased 4 years ago are used as temporary backup drives. Every day I write and erase and overwrite files to those drives. Have done so for 4 years. At the end of each month when make a complete total hard drive backup I clear the flash drives. 4 years and still running. I think the paper stated each sector of the memory has either a 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 write erase cycle before it starts failing.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... af6ebbc6d0

Aitch
edit:
Client for MSN with souch nice interface like pidgin would be nice. But if there is small and ugly but does the job let it be
try meebo; msn++/browser

http://www.meebo.com/

ledo
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#20 Post by ledo »

You seem to be getting yourself confused

a) you can get sound working by running the alsawizard [menu>setup>alsasoundwizard
if at first it fails to load a driver - either soundblaster or yamaha opl3, try legacy isa - but it definitely works , if you have speakers
b) swap has nothing to do with sound and is an entirely seperate process & it is possible to run a small 256-512mb swap in flash
some people don't like it but it works
there is discussion about only saving to flash at shutdown, but you'll have to google it for the outcome
No no. We didn't understand each other. Sound as no mouving parts in laptop. Not sound from speakers but sound from laptop. I have 2.1 GB HDD but the point of using CF is that it doesn't makes any sound. Ideal for thinking and writing text.

About the swap. Hum. I really don't know what puppy does if there is to little system memory when installed on CF card. There is a special installer inside universal installer that i think does frugal install by default. It's called something like CF to internal IDE adapter. Only these install recognizes CF card correctly. I can't do standard HD install beacos CF card in IDE adapter isn't recognized.

I read much about these. It is so called frugal install. And these kind of install is made in that way that WRITE cycles on the CF are as minimum as possible.

But i don't know what happens if there is to little ram on PC. Does the PC read only from CF and contentiously loads one aplication in memory and than frees up the memory and load another or it makes its own swap file or writes to different locations on CF card by itself i really don't know.

I don't know ether when we first turn off PC and it ask us where to make a file that doesn't load in memory. If that file is swap or if the data is only read from it or it writes to it too when the PC is turned off. I don't know.

I know when we save sessions that then we write to some location. And we can write on CF after each turn off of system. But what happens in between i really don't know.

But swap and CF card i don't like too much.
try meebo; msn++/browser
Hum. Good idea. But the problem is password and email account. I am a pearson that likes to have control. And who knows what are the folks doing with your email account, passwords, logs of talk... :)

And another thing i noticed. In your qupte from other topic:
However, I made a decision with the startup logic of Puppy, only to copy usr_cram.fs into ramdisk if there is at least 62M of physical RAM allocated to the ramdisk.
I have 64 so i guess system tries to put everything in ramdisk.

On my PC with much ram all the OS is in RAM. I can take out the LiveCD after booting and it works fine. But on laptop with little ram if i use puppy pfix=ram there is situation like these. Systems is uploaded in ram but when there is to little of ram programs are loaded from LiveCD. So there isn't any write cycles. What happens if i would open too many apps? I didn't try. I guess i would get out of memory error or very very slow work beacos everything would have to be loaded in ram executed and then free ram and again loaded another thing executed.... These is how i imagine things and i can be wrong naturally.

But the botom line there isn't any swap and no write cycles. And as i understand things the same works frugal install on CF card. If i am right or wrong i really don't know. I just imagine these is how its done.

I have about 30 MB free memory with 3.01 on laptop when system is loaded from LiveCD and its stops loading from CD. Same amount of ram with CF card.

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