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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Multisession DVD and swap file on hard drive?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Turpin


Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Mon 14 Apr 2008, 20:38    Post subject:  Multisession DVD and swap file on hard drive?  

I'm using a multisession install of Puppy because I find it invaluable to be able to wipe out mistakes wth the ease of simply blacklisting sessions on the disc.
I had been using a swap partition of 2 GB, which boosted my available space up to 1.5 GB. I've found the need for more available space for some of the things I do (for instance, SFS-Edit-LHP), because it's been crashing with a message that I'm out of space. So, I thought, that's silly, why don't I make sure I have enough space and ditch the 2GB limitation of my swap partition and just create a swap FILE?
I followed the instructions on the Puppy wikka for creating a swap file from Windows using fsutil because Puppy can't create a swap file apparently unless it has enough space available to it to create the swap file. So, 3.9 GB swap file made on /mnt/hda4, a FAT32 partition, I typed the commands necessary for Puppy to acknowledge and activate it. All looked well. So I modified the rc.local file as per the instructions and rebooted. But Puppy still only shows 453 free.
What did I do wrong? Is a swap file compatible with a multisession install?
It occured to me that I may need to auto-mount that partition on startup. Is that my problem? Until I hear from someone, I guess I'll go looking for how to do that, but I'm hesitant to mess with it unless I know that's the problem. I get the same feeling as I do watching the tv show "House" when the doctor comes up with a diagnosis as likely to kill the patient as it is to cure them. And nobody likes killing a Puppy. Well, maybe in some Asian countries, but I digress.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 14 Apr 2008, 21:47    Post subject:  

I like to discuss things in terms of partitions, files and directories. But in a general sense Linux treats the aforementioned as files, but that's not very relevant to the content of my post or our discussion.

A swap file, as I'm sure you know is like a RAM extension.

FAT32 has a limit of a 4GB file and that limit has nothing to do with Linux.

Puppy in version 1.xx had a RAM limit of 1GB. It's now compiled differently, but whatever the limit, I'm sure it's not less than 3GB.

Your problem is one of nomenclature. You wrote: But Puppy still only shows 453 free

Free what? Probably it says Free Memory?

If so, that's the gotcha. Tripped you up on your own understanding of what memory is. If you ask me how much memory my computer has, I'll think to myself, "How much RAM do I have?"

Then I'll answer you accordingly.

What would you do if the same question was asked you?

Here's the bottom line, the way I see it: It doesn't matter how much RAM you install or what you do with your swap files, Puppy will not change it's reporting on how much FREE MEMORY you have.

If I wrote the binary freememapplet, I'd have not used the word Memory, because most computer literate people, in my opinion, think of memory as RAM.

If I ask how much space you have? What will you answer?

Now if we can get you to change your way of thinking and get that memory probably means available space in your pup_save file, you're on track, toward not stumbling over the nomenclature.

But don't feel bad, you're hardly the first person who stumbled over this one. However, this is my longest post in history on the subject.

If you want to delve into the mystery more - check Puppy's Help on the freememapplet.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11067
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 14 Apr 2008, 23:08    Post subject:  

Bruce, I've never understood what "Free" is telling me. Embarassed Puppy doesn't seem to do the personal storage file for multisession the same way it does for a hd install, for instance.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 14 Apr 2008, 23:28    Post subject:  

Flash,

I can certainly understand that. But it is telling you Free Memory. Even though you don't know what it's telling you.

For Turpin's interest, Flash is a Puppy user who also runs Puppy on a multi-session DVD.

Running Full Install install, I can say that Free Memory corresponds with the the unused space on the partition Puppy is installed on. (except if it's installed on a really large partition)

But, it you all promise to keep it secret, I remove the applet.

Bruce

PS A while ago I wanted to look over the source code, but it was a binary file. I looked on Google to see if I could find the code, but Google sent searches back to Puppy. This being a Puppy special application.
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Turpin


Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Tue 15 Apr 2008, 00:06    Post subject:  

How do I get my swap file working? Or can I?

While writing this, I'm still looking trying make sure I understand your replies. To clarify, in the standard Puppy 3.98 (4 beta) the only applet that displays a number is showing about "450M Free". When I had the swap partition, it displayed 1.5 GB, even though I physically only have 1 GB of ram. Sooo, I'm guessing that what you mean is that some of that was swapped memory. Okay that makes sense. But do you know how I can get it back when using a swap file? Apparently right now the swap file isn't working. Doesn't a swap file do the same thing as a swap partition? Or is what you're saying, that the swap partition deals more with space and the swap file more with memory?
Ohhhhh, okay, I think maybe I see what you're saying, it's still sinking in, but space IS memory since it's being shared. And memory is ram plus swap. I think. So if I could make the 4GB swap file work, I'd have more space/memory for doing large jobs, right? I had 1.5 GB of memory free when I had a 2GB swap partition, so wouldn't a 4GB (fat32 limit) swap file give me about 3.5? And my big question I need help with: I moved it to the top in bold red Smile
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Turpin


Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Tue 15 Apr 2008, 02:31    Post subject:  

I should repeat my question for those tuning in. Does a swap file work when booting from the multisession DVD? How do I know if it's working? How can I make it work? Thanks. If it doesn't work, I'll be releaved because then I can put this behind me. Oops I should mention, I read the wikka page, set it up, etc., but I don't see the mem reading go up. Read my first post for more detail.
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Turpin


Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Tue 15 Apr 2008, 12:35    Post subject:  

Thanks for trying to help. I'll keep reading over what you said, but i think I had a firm anough grasp on the way Puppy uses memorey as storage in multisession mode to begin with.

My question is about the swap file. Does it work or not work with multisession, because multisession is never mentioned in any instructions I've found about swap files. And it doesn't seem to be working after I followed the instructions. Granted, I don't have a /mnt/home because I'm using multisession DVD, so I had to create the swap file on a HD partition instead. And let me emphasize. swap FILE, not swap partition. I had no trouble getting a swap partition working, but I want a swap file, because apparently the limit for a swap partition is only 2GB. The limit for a file on a FAt32 (which Linux has less problems with than NTFS) is 4GB, which is perfect for me, if I could make the swap file engage, but apparently it's not. I need the answer to at least one of these questions:

1. Why isn't my swap file working after following the instructions on the Puppy wikka page?
2. Doesn't a swap file do exactly the same thing as a swap partition?
3. How do I know if the swap file is working in multisession DVD mode?
4. Is it possible to make a puppy use a swap file in multisession DVD mode?
5. If I can't make a swap file work, can I maybe use two swap partitions? I think I read somewhere on here that that's not a good idea.

I'm trying like crazy to get a good build of Puppy going that will do everything I need it to do, and I need to be wrapping it up. Thanks for any help I can get.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 15 Apr 2008, 15:50    Post subject:  

Hoyle revision says: make your swap file 2x RAM size but not in excess of 512 MB

Hoyle says: If you need more space, increase size of pup_save file.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11067
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 16 Apr 2008, 00:00    Post subject:  

How sure are you that Puppy can't use a swap partition bigger than 2GB? I'm not saying you're wrong, only that it bears investigation. Perhaps it might be possible to change the limit, if there is one. Smile
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