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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Package mgr message pisses me off!
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Petr
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Oct 2005, 14:58    Post_subject:  Package mgr message pisses me off!  

Ok the package manager _looks good_ but the message "write these on a piece of paper then install them" Thanks! they are not packages in the list where does one go from there?

This is so bad it should be a bug, but I suspect it is a message that makes sense to someone Confused

Petr
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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Fri 14 Oct 2005, 16:42    Post_subject:  

What package/file are you trying to install?

"write these on a piece of paper then install them" usually indicates a dependency problem, i.e. some of the libraries (e.g. libXXX.so.1) needed by the program are not included in puppy. You'll need to do a search to find the files and then install them.

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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Fri 14 Oct 2005, 18:23    Post_subject:  

if you are referring to dotpups, the dotpup system is not a package manager at all, and was never intended to be a package manager ... dotpups are a little like a simpler NSIS

most of my dotpups have all the library files and support programs included in the package, but a few use other libraries or programs ... they usually tell you it requires to have another dotpup package installed ... you can usually download the other package from the same page

dotpup packages that were not made by me are absolutely not my responsibility ... at all ... whatsoever ... period

in fact, on my dotpup page that Puppy links to, i have a warning:

WARNING: These DotPups have been created by Puppy users and are part of Puppy Linux. Puppy Linux is not responsible for the use of these programs. It is even possible that one or more of these program could result in loss of data or even damage your sanity. Use any of these programs at your own risk. Be brave. Woof, Woof.

ok, someone changed part of the warning slightly ... i also had a similar warning at the top of the User Contributions page, though someone removed it ... i have been thinking of putting it back

the point is, packages made by Puppy users may be well made or poorly made ... they may work well or not at all ... so caveat emptor

Puppy does have a sort of package management system ... PupGet ... i am not responsible for PupGet at all (other than the name)
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 14 Oct 2005, 18:43    Post_subject:  

huh? What are you talking about?

Please clarify what package manager are you using, what package are trying to install and when are you getting that message.
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puppian


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 538
Location: PuppyLand

PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2005, 03:24    Post_subject:  

If I remember it right (the memory of a puppy is not that reliable... Embarassed), the message "write these on a piece of paper then install them" is shown when one install an alien package using the PupGet package manager.

So it's NOT a bug at all Petr, it's a great feature of PupGet that helps you track dependencies. As Puppy is a mini-distro (only 60M), it won't include every library needed by every program Smile Btw, here's a good place to search for libraries (you need undeb, which is available as a dotpup, to extract the files). After extraction put them somewhere in /usr/lib or /root/my-applications/lib.

In case you don't know it yet, GuestToo (G2) is our puppy master who invented the dotpup software installation system for puppy Smile

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2005, 04:18    Post_subject: Lobster admits guilty secret  

Quote:
WARNING: These DotPups have been created by Puppy users and are part of Puppy Linux. Puppy Linux is not responsible for the use of these programs. It is even possible that one or more of these program could result in loss of data or even damage your sanity. Use any of these programs at your own risk. Be brave. Woof, Woof.

ok, someone changed part of the warning slightly ... i also had a similar warning at the top of the User Contributions page, though someone removed it ... i have been thinking of putting it back


Embarassed It was me. I done it Crying or Very sad I felt that the warnings were so intimidating that a lot of people might be put off . . . the truth is I do tend to try every dotpup going (too many being released to continue with this) and some have even been lost. We lost a python dotpup - a ruby with rails dotpup, not sure if openoffice2 has been sorted?

Mark Ulrich works at such a pace some of his early dot pups are weird - BUT he corrects so fast that they soon come good.

The situation is something like this:
Pupgets (created by Barry and integrated into Puppy) can be older versions but very reliable - for example I use xchat and fvwm95 very often . . . This is the simplest way to get extra reliable programs.
GuestToos Dotpups - reliable and well tested - G2 created the dotpup format - and it is very fast, useful and a great success.
Contributed Dotpups - mostly good (some great stuff) but some kludges (one or two of mine are there - who can do without autozen?) People are either familiar, learning or trying their best . . .

On the forum - bang up to date - not yet fully tested and this is often stated . . .

The eventual aim is to merge dotpup and pupget and MU's program is part of that process.

I have used unleashed packages but am not 100% clear on them . . .? They are used to create custom puplets? Also they are not quite pupget programs? Not really sure . . .

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Petr
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 06:00    Post_subject: The package manager pisses me off!  

Hey guys!
I see this is a touchy issue. Anyway. The point remains; the message is not useful. This would be a great thing to fix - although it seems that a useful message is not easy. Perhaps this means something needs to be done with the process? Don't know... If there are more replies, I will give it some thought.

For those with an interest. 1) I still think this thread belongs in suggestions - it is not a problem that beginners need help with; it is a suggestion of something to fix so that beginners don't have troubles.

I was trying to install firefox, I thought I had chubby puppy with firefox, but it certainly didn't look like it.

My I also express my respect and undying gratitude for anyone and everyone who makes a contribution to the whole linux venture.

Petr Ivanovich

Come the revolution brothers and sisters...
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Oct 2005, 06:31    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I see this is a touchy issue. Anyway. The point remains; the message is not useful. This would be a great thing to fix - although it seems that a useful message is not easy. Perhaps this means something needs to be done with the process? Don't know... If there are more replies, I will give it some thought.


No need to put it in Suggestions!
The PupGet package manager is a work-in-progress, and I got as far as identifying missing dependencies -- it is intended that a future version will then tell you what package to download that has those dependencies
-- this will apply to PupGet packages, not DotPups -- I mean, the package manager will only know about dependency files in the PupGet collection.
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Petr
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct 2005, 06:11    Post_subject:  

OK here is a suggestion. Puppy is great because it is light weight (and works and ...) In order to add stuff, lets assume you _have_ to be connected to the internet. So, perhaps pupget (?) remains simply something that can install packages and that has no idea about dependencies. However, a website is provided that _does_ know about dependencies _and_ about where to get software (whether or not its in a dotpup). The website could poll sources to see if they are still there and relevant, and possibly warn developers when a package used by their stuff changed. As a user my machine would need to inform the website about what I already had, but the calculations could be done on the website. Indeed it probably wouldn't hurt if pupRemove(?) had to use the website to sort out dependencies. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. If it is feasable, then I think it would be great to keep newbies ignorant of dependencies.

Petr
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11083
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct 2005, 09:08    Post_subject:  

To expand on Petr's idea, such an intelligent website could go so far as to inspect a computer over the internet to see what hardware it had (by e.g. a small Linux which downloads quickly) then compile an a la carte Puppy containing only the hardware drivers necessary for that computer, plus only the application software you chose. Nothing wasted and all dependencies accounted for. Bill Gates would love this idea because it would result in a compiled OS which wouldn't be much use with any other combination of hardware, but it would work just as well for Linux. Question is, who pays for it and maintains it?

Solution: put the wizard and everything else, or at least enough to get online, on a CD or DVD, not on the web.

Edited_time_total
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aahhaaa


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 341
Location: Lower Michigan, North America

PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct 2005, 09:44    Post_subject:  

I like this idea as far as I understand it. It is a horrible feeling to be stalled out after Puppy's sweet install, and (humbly) come to Beginner's Help only to find highly technical specific install problems. It makes Puppy look very problematic- which it is not.

many websites have simple, non intrusive troubleshooters for specific problems. That's really all a wizard is. Puppy IDs the vendor chip number for modems for example. That's great, and its short enough to 'copy down on a scrap of paper'. Very Happy
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