MicroXWin for Puppy

[PEddie]

Hello,

I like to know, if anyone had check MicroXWin with Puppy.
I read a lot of that users are interesting in cutting of X-Org out of Puppy but what about MicroXWin?
What I read about this, is, that it is able to use a new technology for X-Windowing and do not need the bload of a X-server. They combined the x-routines into the kernel and got a speed increase due to graphical operations and, most important, need less space and resources.

They do have DEMOS for Fedora and Slackware and isn't Puppy based on Slackware?

So is there any Puppy Guru out, which can/will check this out?

Regards,
PEddie

[klu9]

looks interesting

BTW here's the link: http://www.microxwin.com/

@ PEddie, Puppy's not based on Slackware but Puppy 3.xx is binary-compatible with Slackware 12: i.e. software packages built for Slackware 12 should work on Puppy 3.xx with just a simple conversion.

If someone knows how to do these things, it would be great it you tried out MicroXwin and let us know how it went.

here's the link for the slackware12 demo of microxwin:
http://www.microxwin.com/slackware12.tar.gz

[Lobster]

2X times faster graphics

Lower Memory Usage

MicroXwin is binary comaptible with standard X11 at the Xlib layer

The kernel module is however proprietary

It might still be possible to use in Puppy
dependent on the licensing and ease of use

For example we use Flash which is proprietary
Looks tempting on the surface

[paulh177]

I downloaded the source and tried a compile following the README only to get

Code: Select all

#make -f makefile.linux
make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h', needed by `ks_tables.h'.  Stop.

Someone who actually knows what they are doing needs to have a go, or perhaps find a prebuilt slackware binary to try ?

[muggins]

Paul,

I've got that include file in /usr/X11R7/include/X11 directory.

[paulh177]

thanks muggins, yep I'd seen that already and I tried to soft link it but it came up the same error. It was my semi-live system though so I don't want to mess about too much. when I have a minute i'll try it on one of my gash systems.
the README says

This makefile assumes the new X11 layout as in Fedora6/7 and Slackware 12

which I'm assuming Puppy doesn't ?
(I've run into this before but haven't had the patience to work out what the differences are -- i have the temperament of an impatient generalist rather than a patient specialist which is one reason i can't program )

[PEddie]

Hello good old fellows,

I talked with "Vasant" from MicroXWin and he did a cross-compile for the kernel and bring it up for puppy, but he was not able to test it, in case of booting into FRAMEBUFFER.

So, if there is anyone out, which can handle or test it, we would be a great step forward for integrate such a kind of technology with puppy.

http://www.microxwin.com/demo.html

[Vasant]

Hi folks,

I made a preliminary port of MicroXwin for puppy 3. The user space libraries are based on Slackware 12 and I recompiled kernel module x11.ko for linux version 2.6.21.7 (same as in puppy 3).

Couple are things are missing:
1. How to set up boot command so that kernel boots with vesafb ?

2. How to install the snf fonts into puppy distribution ?.

I don't know puppy well enough to do this but would be willing to work with you folks to make the port functional.

Regards
Vasant

[klu9]

hi Vasant,

thanks for your efforts to get microxwin working in Puppy. I'm useless so I can't help you but I hope someone else here can and I look forward to seeing Microxwin in action on Puppy.

[prehistoric]

Hi Vasant,

Barry Kauler generally manages tricky problems with our kernels. At the moment, there are two things keeping him away from this: 1) he is off developing Puppy 4 "Dingo"; 2) he is up to his ass in alligators dealing with malicious spamming, a brain-dead hosting firm and general paranoia. I'm sure he'll be interested in this when he has a chance to think.

I'm not completely useless, but my miracles these days involve walking carefully on wet pavement. I'll make sure someone competent notices this.

prehistoric

Added: rerwin suggested this:

I did not have answers to the two questions posed, but just now found a post:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 796#168772
that identifies the magic parameters as:
'video=vesafb, vga=771'

The thread also mentions loading module fbcon, but I assume it is already compiled into the kernel Vasant provided.

Added Later:

How to install the snf fonts into puppy distribution ?.

He has snf-flavored bit-map fonts to be added to Puppy. I think the technique is to put them into a .pet package for inclusion in the packages built into a puppy release or puplet.

There are several people on the forum who make .pet and .pup packages for others, so they can be asked. pizzapup is one who made a "japanese-fonts.pup", so must know what to do for a .pet.

Here's a link to our wiki on making a .pup package. This is easy to do and extremely flexible, but isn't automatically handled, and can't be simply uninstalled, by the petget program. At the moment I'm having trouble with Barry's pages on .pet packages, but if you get it in this form we can use and convert it. How to make a DotPup

[Vasant]

Hi Folks,

I finally got MicroXwin to run on puppy 3 Xfce based DCL distribution. Download puppy3.tar.gz from the demo page at http://www.microxwin.com. There is detailed instructions and a puppy kernel with fbconsole enabled. This is brief summary of what you need to do:
1.Use vmlinuz that we provide.
2.Modify pup_301.sfs to use our libs, fonts and scripts.
3.Enable vesafb on bootup.

Let me know if you run into problems.

Regards
Vasant

[EZ4arabs]

would you be so kind (or any of the good guys of puppy linux's users) develop a version that can work on 2.16.
Thank you.

[Eyes-Only]

I'd just love to know whether or not anyone gave Vasant's version there a spin to see how it worked?

Anyone?

The thought of something like this being used in Puppy, already blazingly fast where he operates in RAM if used from the disk/frugal, sounds VERY fascinating needless to say! But then when you stop to think that BarryK was looking for smaller programmes for Dingo, throwing out others, just to cut our size down because we've grown exponentially over the past two years... well... when I stop to think of that monolithic beastie known as "X11" and the sheer size it takes up I shake my head.

Seems so BarryK uses a stripped-down version of X11 as it is (i.e. "It's not 100% there, enough to work."), I could be wrong as I'm not the brightest lightbulb in the box, but what remains is STILL HUGE.

Now imagine doing away with the server altogether and using simply a kernel module? What would we save? Perhaps 10megs over-all in the .iso file? That's nothing to sneeze at!

I hope someone here hasn't "left it to chance" that BarryK will just stumble by and find this thread. If anyone here actually knows the man, or feels comfortable with private messaging him, hopefully this thread could be brought to his attention? (I'm neither of the above BTW, sorry.)

Well, my 2 pieces of wampum thrown in for good measure. Sure would like to know if someone tried this though.

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

[nooby]

Looks very interesting

What did Barry think of it?
Just me curious.

[scsijon]

I've sent a message to http://volkspc.org where microxwin now goes, I may just have a project for this.

I'll update this when a reply arrives.

And this may give you an idea why:
https://www.cnx-software.com/tag/microxwin/
and yes i know it's 2014 but with what seems the demise of Nano-X, it's the next best thing.
My only negative is that it's suppose to have a proprietory kernel bit, but you never know what can happen when you ask.

[Keef]

I'd forgotten all about MicroXwin. A long time ago I wanted to make a CLI only pup (just for the hell of it) and wanted to use the framebuffer. They did a Puppy demo version (if I remember correctly), so I borrowed the kernel - this was in Puppy 3 days. Then I learned how simple it was to compile a kernel with framebuffer enabled.

EDIT: Ahh, it is mentioned earlier in this thread

[scsijon]

Had a reply from volkspc,

That is a very old thread with reference to some old code. We don't focus
on x86 anymore but provide
a complete distribution that runs on ODROID-C2. It is still based on
MicroXwin but has additional capability to run
Android applications. In other words we don't support stand alone MicroXwin
anymore.

looks like it's a no go for a minimum x, I shall have to go further as both this and nano-x are a nogo.

@Keef, ? I supose you don't have a copy of the Puppy demo version around anywhere as it's not available online anymore.

[amigo]

Ask the developers where one can get the source code -they should be willing to provide it in some form or state.

[Keef]

I did manage to find the source code through the Wayback Machine. I think the demo may just have been the kernel perhaps, can't remember exactly, but I doubt if I still have it. I'll check through my old back-up CDs/DVDs in case.

[scsijon]

thanks Keef,

i've downloaded what you sent, in case you need to delete them, and yes, I was looking for the puppy demo 3.0.1 iso as that's what he could not supply.

However, with a bit of further reading on his site i'm considering going away from microxwin anway as it's code seems to have become proprietory and I don't want to deal with that problem at any stage.

On the other hand i've been sent early 2016 links that work for nano-x and it has a x11 version in it's build system to allow building to play with so I think i'll go back to that as nano-x is a happy framebuffer x and that's the best I can have for my brief as it means that other than one package requiring complete rebuild (other than the kernel of course) I can use most others that exist in the puppy 5 repositories.

So, thanks for your files, I shall look at them anyway as they may give me some ideas to add in.