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Pup214R v1.01 uploaded
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nic2109

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jan 2008, 19:03    Post_subject: Installer Problems in 214R  

Hi; I was hoping to try v1.01 to see if it's been fixed but it's still downloading (it's taking an age) so I apologise if this issue will be fixed when it comes!

Puppy Universal Installer (aka "PUI") gets in a right old tangle on my system and fails utterly. See the attached screenshot for the results of an attempted Frugal install..

I have a single SATA disk partitioned with 3 primary partitions for 'doze with a 4th a logical partition which has a SWAP and 3 EXT3 partitions. The first EXT 3 (which is sda6) has ubuntu and is where GRUB's menu.lst hangs out in /boot/grub/. I have other frugal installs in sda7 andd have manually updated menu.lst and they work fine.

The first problem is that even when told to use sda8, PUI has actually used sda6 and created a pup214R folder in /boot/grub there.

The second is that it has only copied initrd.gz and vmlinuz and has omitted the sfs files.

And the third is that the menu.lst entry it suggests is incorrect, and the last is that it doesn't actually update menu.lst.

Basically nothing worked right!

The download is still plodding on so I'll leave it running overnight, and update this thread tomorrow if v1.01 behaves any better.
Puppy 214R PUI Results.png
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Puppy 214R PUI Results.png

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jan 2008, 19:43    Post_subject: original post of 2.14R  

nic2109, I guess prehistoric refers to the original posting of 2.14R:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=24082
(I understand that your post above belongs there?)

Have you tried getting 1.01 from this mirror? Or just install the service pack.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=161416#161416

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Newcrest

Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 203

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan 2008, 01:46    Post_subject:  

Hi, thanks for the people behind this version. My laptop mouse does not like Puppy 2.16 and 2.17 so I am happy there are updates for many things in this package.

However, I cannot find whether 2.14R has the improved NTFS support included in 2.16:
NTFS support and general partition management improved. A swag of packages have been upgraded, namely FUSE, ntfs-3g, ntfsprogs.

Puppy 2.14 and 2.15CE don't reliably write to NTFS partitions after a few writes have taken place. So were these changes done in 2.14R ?

Thanks
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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan 2008, 09:23    Post_subject: Re: Puppy 2.14R Bugs  

ecomoney wrote:
The seamonkey browser icon on the desktop launches a browser window, but when it is clicked again it doesnt open a second one!

That's built-in to the script that runs mozilla binary (the "official" script, that comes with it), so new tabs are opened rather than a new process. It can probably be hacked to not do it, but do we really want it to keep opening new processes?

Quote:
The flash version included in 2.14r is version 9,0,31,0, which I have found contains quite a few bugs, and is also incapable of playing videos on many popular sites (like facebook). The latest version is 9,0,115,0, whgich I have found more stable, and also capable of playing videos full screen. I understand this version is slightly larger.

Pakt will hacve to answer you about that...

Quote:
With gxine, in a "normalised" window state, switching to full screen doesnt work when playing a video or mp3. When it is maximised first, then it can be switched to full screen no problem (strange!).

I've always had that with Gxine... don't know what can be done about it.

Quote:
I tried a quick audio cd burn from mp3 with Gcombust (the interface is very complicated is there a simpler package?), but the resulting cd just played static. Does it need liblame or something?

I think liblame is included, isn't it? Gcombust is quite a relic and should probably be removed -- why didn't you try Grafburn?

Quote:
Also, .torrent files are not associated with transmission-gtk

Ok. I've fixed a lot of thew mime-types, but was not aware of that (will also have to find an icon for torrent files...).

I do miss the updated pdf reader used in the 3.xx series as I have found xpdf lacking on many occaisions).[/quote]
I thought of moving to epdfview, but it only supports printing through CUPS, so I didn't know it it's worth it.

Quote:
I also miss the updated lite webbrowser on the 3.xx series.

Do you mean Netsurf or the Mozilla "bareview"?
I compiled Netsurf a while ago and it was much slower than Dillo and had problems opening some of the man pages! The idea of having Dillo is that if you click a local html file it will open instantly, so I'm reluctant to use anything that will be slower.

Quote:
Ive been impressed with the skipstone browser and I believe its very small, could this be added instead of dillo?

I noticed that Barry just compiled it and will see if I can get it compiled on 214 (might be too old a version of Mozilla), but it's a question of how fast it is..

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nic2109

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan 2008, 16:42    Post_subject:  Re: Installer Problems in 214R
Sub_title: It DOES work really
 

nic2109 wrote:
Puppy Universal Installer (aka "PUI") gets in a right old tangle on my system and fails utterly. See the attached screenshot for the results of an attempted Frugal install.

The download is still plodding on so I'll leave it running overnight, and update this thread tomorrow if v1.01 behaves any better.
Here's the promised update - a couple of days late. Sorry.

Either v1.01 does behave better, or maybe it's that I have learned something new. Just letting PUI copy from the CD produced a working system for me. I had to edit menu.lst manually as it couldn't do that for some reason so I simply copied what it said it would do.

What it actually did surprised me however. I selected sda8 for the installation and that's where it put the 2 .sfs files. But the kernel and initrd.gz files were put elsewhere - in a new puppy214R directory in the same place as the GRUB directory: i.e. /boot on sda6. While this isn't actually wrong it isn't really what I wanted.

So; to summarize. PUI sort of worked but did its stuff in unexpected ways, and it could not update menu.lst.

Nick
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nic2109

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan 2008, 16:55    Post_subject: ATi Graphics Card under 214R  

Hello, me again.

Either I need a new HOWTO, or 214R has problems with my ATi graphics card.

My Dell laptop has a X300 ATi graphics card which requires the proprietory fglrx driver to make it work. I have tried both versions that I am aware of (namely ATI_fglrx-7.11.pet and ATI_driver-8.4.pet) but cannot get either to work.

I have also tried to use MU's 3DCC but it cannot find these drivers.

And lastly I have tried the Puppy 2 version of MU's Puppy Software Installer (aka "PSI") but this comes up with hardly any packages. (This is odd in itself. What might be going on here?)

One or other of these has always worked in the past for both Puppy 2 and 3 based installations, but none of them have worked for me in 214R. Sad
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pakt


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 1089
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun 27 Jan 2008, 12:14    Post_subject: Re: Puppy 2.14R Bugs  

Dougal wrote:
Quote:
The flash version included in 2.14r is version 9,0,31,0, which I have found contains quite a few bugs, and is also incapable of playing videos on many popular sites (like facebook). The latest version is 9,0,115,0, whgich I have found more stable, and also capable of playing videos full screen. I understand this version is slightly larger.

Pakt will hacve to answer you about that...

I did try Flash 9.0.115.0. Even though the script refused to work complaining about the glibc library being older than 2.3, I just copied 'libflashplayer.so' over the old version and it seems to work on the two sites I tried.

One drawback is that it is more than 1MB larger than the current Flash 9 in Pup214R Sad

BTW, how can I test Flash in full screen?

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Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun 27 Jan 2008, 12:32    Post_subject:  

@nic2109

Try MU's instructions at puppyfiles.ca ..this may fix PSI

Eric

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Sun 27 Jan 2008, 13:34    Post_subject:  

Quote:
And lastly I have tried the Puppy 2 version of MU's Puppy Software Installer (aka "PSI") but this comes up with hardly any packages. (This is odd in itself. What might be going on here?)


click on "mirrors" to update PSIs mirror-list, or follow Caneris tip:
http://puppyfiles.ca

Mark
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jan 2008, 05:57    Post_subject: Testing  

Hi dougal/pakt

Thanks for getting back, Ive just noticed something supurb about 2.14r, more than one application can access the sound at one time! This means that at last I can listen to music with gxine while using meebo and actually hear when people message me! I dont need to remember to close gxine when I want to hear the audio from other apps either! I actually thought this was a limitation with puppy linux, but it seems not!

@ Pakt

The best place to try the full screen feature of flash is good old youtube (the icon in the bottom right of the video switches it to full screen...not very clear). The latest flash also contains some bugfixes that caused firefox not to crash as often, but this issue doesnt seem to effect seamonkey.

I have tried you Cups 0.3 package you prepared sometime back with 2.14r and it works perfectly. I know the later versions of puppy included cups by default (without any driver packages...whats the use!), but Im not sure that this would be a good idea. Puppy's RAM based archetecture is great for speed, but its a shame that certain packages like CUPS cannot be loaded from disk (or cd) as needed while keeping the base and common apps in memory. The non-cups printer setup in puppy 2.xx/1.xx I have only had limited success with, it seems very difficult to use for the uninitiated compared to CUPS.

@ Dougal

Thanks for answering all my points. The one about seamonkey I think is important, because how I have noticed people using the computers at the cybercafe is that, when they want to go off on a new search, instead of opening a new tab, they will minimise the current browser window and start a new session by clicking on the desktop icon. This is probably becuase most people are still used to to using the less-than-perfect internet explorer for their browsing which has only just got with it and started using tabs from version 7. I realise that memory requirements need to be a consideration in a cut-down disto like puppy. In any case, I do believe that click the browser icon should do something when clicked. Previous puppies put up a message saying "Please open a new browser window from the currently running mozilla", which was less than perfect but it at least gave the user some feedback. Is there a way of starting a new browser window from the existing memory footprint when the seamonkey start icon is clicked a second time?

With gxine, I have realised this is a problem. Puppy up until version 2.02 could not play videos full screen (it just used to crash!), and the 3.xx series has reverted to this incapability also. There must be a way of fixing it though? Perhaps Barry would know?

With regards cd writing, I have always found graveman to be the most user friendly, its biggest drawback was that it needed a large temporary storage space to create the cd before it could be burnt, and this needed to be on a linux formatted space. This can be limited when running in a pup_save.2fs file on a windows partition (the configuration used by most people trying puppy for the first time). I think grafburn uses the same method. It is also difficult with grafburn to select a mixture of audio tracks to make cd from (you must make a .toc file?). People hate have to relearn things, so if they are going to move over from windoze to puppy the learning curve needs to be as shallow as possible.

Thanks for updating the mime-types, puppy is very compatable with most window file types, but this wouldnt be apparent because they do not open when clicked. Less skilled users I notice tend to open a file by clicking the file, wheras more skilled users open the application first, then use the file menu to open it! Something I have found very useful with ecopup/the cybercafe is a .exe file handler! People will insist on downloading install_messenger.exe and other windows programs and clicking on them. In normal puppy nothing happens, at which point the user thinks "broken". I know this should be a no-brainer, but to most of the world it really isnt. The .exe file handler in ecopup is a simple bash script that puts up a message explaining about windows and linux compatibility and points the user towards the various software installers.

The browser in 3.xx is Netsurf (sorry I couldnt remember the name). I agree dillo is fine for viewing help pages, but it was pretty useless for actually browsing. I have been using skipstone for a while with 2.14 and can confirm it works, I got mine [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=2138471491&t=25821]here[url]. Apparently it is already included in the latest muppy? Ive found it very fast, on my 800mhz/256mb system, seamonkey takes around three seconds to load from memory, and skipstone around one when loading from the pup_save.2fs file, so who knows how quick it will be if included in the pup_214r.sfs file and loaded from memory. Apparently it uses the same backend as seamonkey (gecko 1.8?) which it lifts from the already installed seamonkey, so is very compatable with a lot of sites.

One last thing I will mention is that the internet connection wizard is very hard to find on themenu, this is one of the first things that new users will be needing. Most people (at least in the UK) use an ethernet cable to connect to the web. There is an entry in the menu's under internet>internet connection that I can see most people trying when they cannot connect with seamonkey (windows autoconnects with dhcp os they wouldnt intuitively realise that they need to run the connection wizard first. However the internet>internet connection list of menu items does not include a link to the ethernet connection wizard. I realise there is an icon on the desktop for this, but by the time the user has clicked the seamonkey icon, this will be obscured by the browser window. Perhaps it can be included here. I think overall the internet connection wizard could be made a lot more user friendly. We are planning an internet connection check on seamonkey(and other apps requiring a connection) for the CE edition.

Overall I am very impressed with the 2.14r version, it is the best puppy yet in terms of what the average new linux user wants, and I can appreciate the time you must have spent in smoothing out the rough edges. Many thanks for all of your hard work. so far.

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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jan 2008, 09:32    Post_subject: Re: Testing  

ecomoney wrote:
I have noticed people using the computers at the cybercafe is that, when they want to go off on a new search, instead of opening a new tab, they will minimise the current browser window and start a new session by clicking on the desktop icon. This is probably becuase most people are still used to to using the less-than-perfect internet explorer for their browsing which has only just got with it and started using tabs from version 7. I realise that memory requirements need to be a consideration in a cut-down disto like puppy. In any case, I do believe that click the browser icon should do something when clicked. Previous puppies put up a message saying "Please open a new browser window from the currently running mozilla", which was less than perfect but it at least gave the user some feedback. Is there a way of starting a new browser window from the existing memory footprint when the seamonkey start icon is clicked a second time?

I think maybe it would be best to just put up a yaf-splash window with a message saying "a new tab has been opened in Mozilla" or something.


Quote:
With regards cd writing, I have always found graveman to be the most user friendly, its biggest drawback was that it needed a large temporary storage space to create the cd before it could be burnt, and this needed to be on a linux formatted space. This can be limited when running in a pup_save.2fs file on a windows partition (the configuration used by most people trying puppy for the first time). I think grafburn uses the same method.

I also liked Graveman (and still check up on it every so often in the hope that it is revived). I think what Grafburn does is create a directory with links to the files you want to burn, so it doesn't take up disk space.

Quote:
It is also difficult with grafburn to select a mixture of audio tracks to make cd from (you must make a .toc file?).

I don't know about that... I've been thinking of adding Pburn -- is that any better with burning audio files?

Quote:
Something I have found very useful with ecopup/the cybercafe is a .exe file handler! People will insist on downloading install_messenger.exe and other windows programs and clicking on them. In normal puppy nothing happens, at which point the user thinks "broken". I know this should be a no-brainer, but to most of the world it really isnt. The .exe file handler in ecopup is a simple bash script that puts up a message explaining about windows and linux compatibility and points the user towards the various software installers.

Oh my, I didn't imagine people would try runing .exe files... sure I could do something like that, though it would help if you could send me the one you have as an example. (I should probably make it check for WINE, in case the user has that installed...)


Quote:
One last thing I will mention is that the internet connection wizard is very hard to find on themenu,

I will look at it -- the next version will also include the modem wizard, so there should be some changes in that regard.

Concerning the lightweight browsers, I'm going to look at Skipstone and maybe a recent version of Netsurf, so maybe I'll add one of them.

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HairyWill


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jan 2008, 12:00    Post_subject: Re: Testing  

Dougal wrote:
I think maybe it would be best to just put up a yaf-splash window with a message saying "a new tab has been opened in Mozilla" or something.
I think MU has posted some comments about problems internationalising yaf-splash. It might also be sensible to include.
"To open a new tab yourself in fire/sea/ice/monster press CTRL-T."

I spent several hours yesterday poking at 2.14R v1.01 (need shorter name:-))
I was mainly trying to debug my pup_save resize problem but I also discovered that one of my machines wouldn't boot with pfix=ram . This machine had several pup_saves on already and was quite happy when I chose option 0 none when it offered me a choice of which pup_save to use.

I'm still getting an error from resize2fs
Code:
ext2fs_check_mount_point: No such file or directory while determining whether /mnt/dev_save/pup_save.2fs is mounted


I also noticed and error on shutdown when creating the pup_save.

Code:
Saving session to /pup_save.2fs file on hdc1 partition...
Mounting /pup_save.2fs...cp: cannot stat `/initrd/pup_rw/root/*': No such  directory


this might be because I have no new files in /root/, I need to test that.

The two machines I have this problem with seem very different.
1. A thinkpad, one ide drive a mixture of ntfs, ext2/3 partitons booting using grub installed by debian. I have tried 214R in both the debian boot partition (ext3) and a different one (ext2)
2. Dogs breakfast of a PC three ide drives, mixture of NTFS, ext2/3 booting using gldr in an NTFS partition with 214R in another NTFS partition. I have Muppy6&8 and puppy 2.16 running without problems.

I have initrd.gz, vmlinuz and both sfs files in the root of the partition in both machines and my grub config looks like
Code:
title 214R
kernel (hd2,0)/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
initrd (hd2,0)/initrd.gz
boot


On the plus side resize2fs works fine if I apply it to a pup_save that is not in use. So the problem is surmoutable for me and not reported by anybody else. Why am I trying to hunt this one down?

Even the pfix=ram is a none issue for me as I can easily ensure that at least two pup_saves get found. Why am I trying to hunt this one down?

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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jan 2008, 18:09    Post_subject:  

@ dougal is it possible to compile the latest wine against the glibc in 2.14R? I remember correctly wine 9.22 and maybe 9.17 had trouble with some file dialogs (just say 7-zip...) the latest version has it perfectly but might not be compatable with glibc 2.3.5

i think is is nls support that wine wants? could glibc 2.3.5 be recompiled with support for it? would that cause instability?

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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jan 2008, 12:20    Post_subject:  

coblitzed link: http://coblitz.codeen.org/http://www.puppylinux.ca/puppyfiles/Pup214R/pup214R-1.01.iso
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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jan 2008, 16:25    Post_subject:  

cb88,
I just compiled the latest version of Wine (v0.9.54) in Puppy214R. It will take me a few days before I have time to prepare a dotpet.

cb88 wrote:
I remember correctly wine 9.22 and maybe 9.17 had trouble with some file dialogs
... snip ...
i think is is nls support that wine wants? could glibc 2.3.5 be recompiled with support for it?

No, for dialogues to work, Wine just needs the FontForge libraries. I will include these libraries in the dotpet.
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