wNOP v0.2

[tombh]

@Boo: Pushing for niggles! That's what I like to hear With such little negative feedback from the fglrx driver, perhaps this release should have had the honour of a full number version. Concerning that niggle, do all the various maximise animations execute with a delay? Perhaps there are some that don't.

@puppyluvr: Yeah that dino does seem to be cutting it a bit fine, but I wouldn't couldn't call it extinct yet. If you post the wNOPdump file that appears on yer desktop after a

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wNOPinspect

from the terminal, I can tell you more. Yeah wobbling video's great! About programs not installing, I know I had problems with abiword, i can't remeber where I got the missing dependency from now, I think I ended up just gettting it from slackware. Do you know about slackware? Puppy 3 is compatible with slackware packages, you can download them using a neat program called gslapt, I get stuff from it all the time, it's great. I've never got firefox from it though, last firefox install I did was thanks to thuxx, firefox2.0.11+flash9, worked perfectly.
I'm not sure C-F will work with enlightenment I'm afraid
Glad yer liking the wobbly Puppy

@pakt: Out of the box on an EeePC, that's great, yeah brilliant example to set for Puppy and the EeePC, I'll put the screenshot up on me website...

[Ingenioutor]

Greetings!

I absolutely love wNOP! But since I am anti=M$, how can I change the XFCE Taskbar's windowish look?

[tombh]

Easy Peasy -- just goto Menu->Settings->Settings Manager->User Interface and take your pick, my favourite at the moment is the KDE2 look. There are also loads of other themes available at www.xfce-looks.org

[Ingenioutor]

Thanks, mate!

Now I am thinking of another puplet based on wNOP. So its going to be baby pupplete

More info late


PUPPY POWER!

[puppyluvr]

hello again tombh,
firstly, here are the dumps from our comps. The one labeled Dinodump is (obviously) from the dinosaur, the other from my wifes lap top (a complete success so i didnt know if it would be usefull to you or not, so..)).... as for installing programs i put p.s.i. on it and works great (after a long hunt for "gtklist04mu").
now the question????..Where did you get the opera you put on wobbly?? finally an opera that works...WELL!!!..Flash, Speed Dial, everything works! (never could get speed dial to work on any of my puppy`s., and Flash in opera was iffy at best)..
I think wNOP will be great to "convert" `dozer`s to linux, eye candy never hurts! The out of the bos M$ look helps a lot too..
GREAT PUPPY !!!...Thanx..


"You cant expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you"......MPFS

[klu9]

hello again tombh,
Where did you get the opera you put on wobbly?? finally an opera that works...WELL!!!..Flash, Speed Dial, everything works! (never could get speed dial to work on any of my puppy`s., and Flash in opera was iffy at best)...

I think you have Gray to thank for that; he creates NOP with Opera included; tombh takes NOP and does the work to get Compiz-Fusion working in it, creating Wobbly NOP.

PS it's great having a working Opera, ain't it?

[prehistoric]

PS it's great having a working Opera, ain't it?

I'm running Opera on wNOP right now. (Though I upgraded to 9.25 using ttuuxxx's pet. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 86&t=24773)

Second the motion.
All in favor?
Passed by unanimous acclamation!

[puppyluvr]

hi again
yes i forgot about nop and having never used it i didnt know if opera was in it or not...so good job gray
thxx for linking me too ttuuxxx`s Opera pet, now the opera on my 215 (buddapup) works great too...
wife is luvin her wobbly-pup...but...every save attempt leads to x crashing..even after running xorgwizard...something wrong in pupsave i guess...will see how a h.d. install goes or maybe go multisession like mine idk
anyhow here`s a screenshot.right out of the box (obviously!!lol)
luvin the wobblypup tombh..

[tombh]

Yeah, Opera is thanks to Gray, I much prefer it to Seamonkey AND he's made it with Flash already installed! Brilliant

@puppyluvr: You forgot to attach those dumps! So about your wife's computer with X crashing -- does the crash happen when you're booting after a previous session has been saved? Or does the crash happen at the actual point of saving? A dump from the point of crash may be useful too, though it might be a little tricky to access the wNOPdump.tar.gz file, I think the easiest way to do it would be to boot in such a way as to cause the crash, type wNOPinspect on the command line then run xorgwizard (just type xorgwizard) and boot into Xvesa. What I'd be interested in is the contents of /tmp/xerrs.log if you want to have a look yourself.

"That rug really tied the room together." The Dude in The Big Lebowski

[puppyluvr]

well tom...i will have to rerun for the dump files..i could have sworn i`d attached them and now... well, i lost `em ...will post soon.
as for the laptop..i tried a few tests myself..live cd..ALWAYS works..live cd rebooting after a pupsave...death black nonresponsive death..directly after running xorgwizard...death...booting nox ..then xorgwizard...death...ctrl-alt-backspace..nothing..random keypunching and curses..still nothing...even while booted pfix = ram if i ctrl-alt-backspace out of x...death..no prompt...nada...@#$%
sooooo.. full install...fresh after boot..do not save session..reboots up great..do not save session..reboots up great..save session..reboot..gets to x startup..death..
so i tried other puppys on it, and couldnt get xorg to function at all on them..and xvesa only 800x600 at best so the issue is related to her laptop i`m sure..however..compiz and beryl, xorg and all function great in knoppix, pc linux ,ect..(but who wants them...lol...)..she wants wNOP...i`m just not sure her Dell does!! so next time i will post the dump files..and i will try to get a "crash" dump too..(if i ever get a prompt after a crash), and xerrs.log..and anything else that looks usefull...
...even w/o saving..and losing all her settings and pups..ect..umpteen times..she would rather re-do it over (and over) than "give up my puppy" ...GREAT PUPPY

[tombh]

@puppyluvr: How annoying. My first thought is it's to do with her graphics card. About xerrs.log, don't worry about getting that separately, it comes with the dump, so does most of the useful information I'd need. So you tried a full install, sounds like a frugal install because of still having to save the session -- do you know about installing puppy to it's own partition so that it doesn't have to save the session everytime? Might be worth a try if you can free up a partition on the hardrive, doesn't need to be that big, 1 GIG would be plenty.

[puppyluvr]

hey tom...
well , her puppy is installed on a 5 gb ext2 partition all by itself....when i refer to "saving" the session `im talking abouit a dialog box asking "save session for future login`s?"..
i have the same kind of install on my machine, (lhp.215)but it doesnt ask, it just say`s "session saved on top layer". and quit`s...and reboots fine with changes intact..
if i save the session on hers and reboot...x crashes totally..no prompt...nada
if i never save a session it reboots fine every time...but of course all changes are lost...
am on lunch break now but will rerun dumps this evening and post...
thanks for your help
puppyluvr..



"my word`s but a whisper...your deafness a shout" Ian Anderson

[puppyluvr]

hey tom...
here`s the dump from the laptop..but its from a working, fresh install..
i couldnt get it to go back to a prompt after repeated attempts so i reinstalled it again...(full install)..and haven`t attemped a save yet..
if i do and it crashes yet again ??..do i reboot w/ the cd and open the partition and look for???..or run wNOPinspect from the live cd??.
sorry such a noob but i will learn...btw..the script that linux uses.."bash" i think??..any good learning resources for that you know of ??..my only programming experience was in quick-basic but i`m a fast learner and tired of being ignorant!!




"the difference between bravery and stupidity is often measured by success"...Jay Stansbury

[prehistoric]

Just wobbled on a machine with an nVidia Quadro FX-500.

@puppyluvr,

There are links to every level of shell use in the beginner's sticky thread on resources.: "if you are new", education, programming.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=597

prehistoric

[tombh]

@puppyluvr: You forgot the attachment again!

Anyway, I suddenly realised what you were saying about saving the session -- you were referring to XFCE's (the window manager) session manager! I just assumed you meant Puppy's 'session manager' as I never use XFCE's as I find it too inconsistent. So, of course, Puppy's 'session manager' is not needed on a full install as all changes are saved on the hoof, as it were, just like an ordinary operating system. Now the point is that XFCE's session manager is more for remembering --what one could call-- environments, i.e. running applications, wallpaper, etc -- whereas Puppy's 'session manager' isn't so much a session manager in the orthodox sense of the term but more a way of storing the *entire* state of the file system. So there is a sense in which the two overlap in function but are also fundamentally different.

Standard Puppy comes with JWM --or ICEWM in the case of Puppy 2.15CE-- instead of XFCE, neither of which have their own session manager. So this is a feature of XFCE, the other feature of XFCE is that it supports compiz-fusion which JWM and ICEWM don't.

Okay the point is that I suddenly realise that I have never tested wNOP with XFCE's session manager, it just never crossed my mind! Ooops You see compiz-fusion is very sensitive to when it is first loaded at boot and can cause the very symptoms you describe on your wife's laptop if it is loaded at the wrong time. So it is very likely that the session manager is trying to be clever and so remembers the fact that compiz is running and tries to load it on next boot during its little load-the-last-session-routine -- thus loading compiz at an inappropriate point and causing the crash.

This is good news as we've found a bug and so can now try to find a workaround I'll let you know when I've figured it all out...

But for now you should be able to turn the session manager off, thus enabling you to save your working state as if it were an ordinary Puppy. Do this once (i.e. not every time you shutdown!):

• *Go to Menu->Settings->Settings Manager->Sessions & Startup.
  *There uncheck "Display chooser on login" and "Automatically save session on logout".
  *But do check "Prompt at logout" as this gives the options to reboot, poweroff, logout, etc.

So I won't need a dump from your wife's laptop just one from the 'Dino'.

"What is known as 'realizing the mystery', is nothing other than breaking through to grab an ordinary person's life." Te Shan Hsuan Ch'ien

[puppyluvr]

here is the dump from the dino...
will try shutdown method after work...i`ll post the results

[shr1k]

First of this looks great
and it booted up from CD first try last night, but like the posts before it will not save for me. I dont get any crash but when I reboot and chose my save file I lose my setings and CF. It looks like the first time you run a new Puppy 3.01 CD in RAM. If I start wNOP in RAM it will boot up fine. Do you have any sugestions as to how to set this up so I can save my setting.
Thanks

Let me know what info you need and how to get it for you(linux is new to me)

[puppyluvr]

hey again...
well i checked the settings you suggested and they were already set as such so..both the quit buttons (on the xfce dock and the menu) bring up the xfce session manager...ain`t doin that again so..
ctrl-alt bkspce to a prompt..typed reboot.."saved on top layer"..ect
looks good so far..reboots...gets to starting x specs in x11....ect..stalls for 30 sec or so...back to prompt...(finally no black screen of death! )..tried xorgwizard..(noticed that the "configuring open source intel driver" part goes by way faster)..pause................
back to prompt ...tried again...now it doesnt auto detect my card ...
..sooo...when it droped back to prompt i ran wNOP inspect...then i tried xvesa...booted up to desktop...changes are intact!!..(pups and stuff, settings)..dump is on desktop...arggghh...no mouse in xvesa...
i need a drink...

ok...booted up w/live cd...typed this up...here is the dump...gonna leave hd install alone 4 now (its there,all set-up,i just cant see it..lol)and run live...am poking around in x11...maybe i`ll see something.lol..
is there a "nox" type cheatcode for full install...? i`d be happy to run xorgwizard every reboot if it would work..


"the greatest wisdom is the knowledge that we know nothing" ...Socrates
"HEY... thats me!!!"

[shr1k]

I fixed mine
I booted up Windows XP and renamed pup_301.sfs to xpup_301x.sfs, then I copied the pup_301.sfs file from the cd to the hard drive. Now wNOP boots up with my settings.

[tombh]

@shr1k: Great! Glad you got it sorted. I reckon that the problem was caused by a previous 3.01-based puplet, NOP or the original 3.01 for example. These files have exactly the same name but contain different data. If this is the case however, remember that if booting the other puplet xpup_301x.sfs will need to be re-renamed! There might be a way for me to rename it to something like pup_wN02.sfs at the point of remastrering the ISO, but I'm not sure how straightforward it is. I'll look into it though.
Well thanks for that and happy wobbling

@puppyluvr: Mmm the plot thickens. Okay well I'm less convinced that it's an XFCE session manager issue, because it shouldn't effect things like installed pups. What I'm not entirely clear on is that when you say,

well i checked the settings you suggested and they were already set as such so..both the quit buttons (on the xfce dock and the menu) bring up the xfce session manager...ain`t doin that again so..
ctrl-alt bkspce to a prompt..typed reboot.."saved on top layer"..ect

was that from a fully wobbling environment? And if so how did you get to it if, when you then rebooted, it all went wrong and you had to use the LiveCD in order to get back to a functional desktop. It sounds like the first boot of the day works but subsequent reboots fail? The dump didn't reveal much as it just complained that X hadn't loaded at all Although you do have the same intel card as a friend of mine's laptop on which I couldn't get wNOP to work, mm I wonder if there is a connection, i'll look into it. Is your laptop VERY new?

Anyway, now for some good news, the Dino comes up to scratch, technically it can run Compiz-Fusion What seems to be holding it back is the amount of video ram allotted to it. Fortunately you should be able to adjust this in the BIOS. But first try skipping compiz's checks for suffficient video ram to see if that works -- just type:

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SKIP_CHECKS=yes compiz-manager

into the terminal once booted into X..........

"Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes