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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Puppy Family Tree
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darrelljon


Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 548

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2007, 18:10    Post subject:  Puppy Family Tree
Subject description: Puplets Pedigree
 

I'm still not 100% clear on the pedigree of various Puppies and Puplets so I knocked up this family tree. I'm sure there are mistakes, please let me know what needs changing and I will produce a better one shortly.
PuppyFamilyTree.png
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2007, 18:56    Post subject: Re: Puppy Family Tree
Subject description: Puplets Pedigree
 

darrelljon wrote:
please let me know what needs changing and I will produce a better one shortly.

Hi darrelljon. Puppy 2.15CE alpha was based on 2.14, but subsequent versions were rebuilt from Unleashed as official versions. Therefore Puppy 2.15CE, in its final iteration, should sit in the mainstream between 2.14 and 2.16 as a full release.

Also Puppy 2.11 is missing from the mainstream. Some would classify it as the best Puppy of all in terms of stability, etc.

Hope that helps. Nice idea to explain Puppy's ancestry. Well done!

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2007, 01:44    Post subject:  

Very interesting chart.

1.09CE had an 'official' release number (space was created for it) It was based on 1.08r1

2.03 or 2.03CE also had an 'official' release number (it was basically Hacao translated from Vieitnamese into English)

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jcagle

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 634

PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2007, 02:41    Post subject:  

Grafpup is currently at version 2.0, just so you know. I'm not sure what version of Puppy that Grafpup 2.0 is based on, really.
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bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2131
Location: buffalo commons

PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2007, 08:10    Post subject:  

I have a dual-boot computer, using Puppy 1.07 and 2.15, neither of which are on your chart. I feel left out and sad...

[yes, mrs. bugman thinks i am a pain in the ass too]
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2007, 08:32    Post subject:  

Our news goes back to 2005 - with Puppy 1.04 - that might give some clues
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/July2005News

also check out the comments section here
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HistoryPuppy?show_comments=1

hope that provides info and keeps Bugman happy Wink

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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Fri 17 Aug 2007, 16:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
Grafpup is currently at version 2.0, just so you know. I'm not sure what version of Puppy that Grafpup 2.0 is based on, really.

It's somewhere between 2.13 and 2.14. I started out basing it on 2.13 and then merged in some of the improvements from 2.14 as development progressed. However, it's a rather loose association now.

Nathan

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setecio

Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 326
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2007, 19:44    Post subject:  

Nice. An informative way of representing the derivatives and gives a quick overview of what is out there. Very Happy

Another chart which I think would be great would be a chart of derivatives vrs machine power, somehow showing a rough layout (relating to CPU / RAM) of which derivatives are aimed at older lower powered machines, and which at more powerful.
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2007, 20:57    Post subject:  

TeenPup is based on 2.14 and Ecopup is based on 2.15ce
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technowomble


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 76
Location: West Gloucestershire, UK

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2007, 04:23    Post subject:  

setecio wrote:
Nice. An informative way of representing the derivatives and gives a quick overview of what is out there. Very Happy

Another chart which I think would be great would be a chart of derivatives vrs machine power, somehow showing a rough layout (relating to CPU / RAM) of which derivatives are aimed at older lower powered machines, and which at more powerful.


I'd second that. As a newcomer to Puppy - but with some years Linux experience - it would be useful to know how much memory a particular Puppy version needs to run entirely in RAM and how much space a full HD install would require. At the moment my Dell Latitude CPi lappie ( P2 400Mhz, 192MB RAM, 6GB HD ) is my sole computer, but once I've replaced my defunct desktop I plan to install Puppy on it. ' Auditioning ' various Puppy versions I've found that Puppy3 and Shard will run and shutdown OK, but larger versions such as Fire Hydrant tend to hang up if asked to do anything intensive in RAM.
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mbutts


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 231
Location: sitn on an iceburg waiting for my next meal to swim by.

PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2007, 06:46    Post subject:  

Great thread and yes it would be nice for members if they knew what was a minimum that each would run on. I have not seen such a tree for other distro's however I might of missed it. I learned a lot about the older 1. versions since I started after the 2. versions were out and never tried any of them. I do use the old 1. game Puppy and it rocks, so I found out that I should not discount the older versions especially for older computers. A chart would make selection a snap to tailor certain versions to hardware. Perhaps a list of "will not work" quirks or list of pups and pets needed for hardware to work with some of the older versions would be nice too.

EDIT
Perhaps for each version people could give a list of computers that do or don't work for a particular version. I know some have problems with video and audio. Wifi and modems have been a problem for some also.

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macadavy

Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Nov 2007, 13:50    Post subject: Release Notes  

I, too, would like to make a plea to developers to make a little more info about their Puppy versions available, (Programs included, etc.) and especially useful would be something like what TazOC has on his Download page for Lighthouse Puppy:
Quote:
"LighthousePup Hardware Requirements
Similar to official PuppyLinux; however the Lighthouse base ISO includes the core file pup_2xx.sfs which is approximately 162 MB, about twice that of Puppy 2.16.1, and about 50 MB more than Puppy 2.15CE (112 MB.) Although Lighthouse has been tested on a 262MHz K6 system with 160 MB RAM, I recommend a minimum of 433 MHz and 256 MB RAM for good performance. If enough RAM cannot be installed, a Linux-swap partition on a local, preferably fast disk drive may be helpful. The great thing about Puppy is you can just swap one bootable LiveCD for another and see which one works best--without the drawn-out hard-disk install of other operating systems."

http://www.lhpup.org/
That last point is especially relevent to this discussion, I think. If developers can't or won't document for whatever reason, is it really that much trouble to download the ISO, burn it to a CD and play around with it to see what's there and how it goes on your particular box?
Of course, that may mean you wind up like me with a dozen or more Puppy CDs lying around that you can't use or just aren't your cuppa tea. What to do? Well, I give 'em away to propagate the faith, eh? Wink

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 18 Nov 2007, 02:15    Post subject:  

Personally, I try to keep fairly detailed logs about everything I do when making a derivative. To be honest, it's for my own benefit more than anything, because then I have something to refer to when figuring out why something works in Puppy but not Pizzapup. It's also very handy when I want to go back and incorporate things from old projects in newer ones. Or if I'm doing a commercial Puppy, and the "boss" decides he wants the base version changed to something three or four versions newer (that actually happened, and helped motivate me to improve, though I had been documenting already).

But they're also handy for the end user, in case they're wondering what has changed. They're not very "noob-friendly" to read, as they assume you know a certain amount about Puppy, so I still have to make a detailed summary myself. But I can't possibly summarize everything (wouldn't be a summary then either...), so I try to keep all the logs availible in case someone really wants to see what has changed.

For example, these are the logs from Pizzapup 3.0:
http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/puplets/pizzapup/3.0/
And the "info" page:
http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/puplets/pizzapup/pizzapup-3.0-info.php

Those logs are sloppier than what I currently do though. Practice makes less imperfect. Smile


One thing that I find makes tracking your changes easier is using Unleashed instead of the remaster script. Mainly because it's persistent. What I usually do is add an extra directory to the unleashed tree, "changes/". Whenever I change something in a package, I symlink the package's directory into changes/. Then I add a textfile named the same as the package and document the changes. If I add a new package, I put it in the packages/ directory, then symlink it. But in that case I tend not to add any extra documentation unless I change something from the "vanilla" package other than basic stuff to make it compatible with Puppy (for example, I don't bother documenting symlinking firefox's binary to /usr/bin, but I document changes to the default settings).

I also keep a todo list in the changes/ directory, with the general list of changes I need to make, and changes I've already made. It helps for planning, and I can go back to get an overview for what I've done. I also make a file listing any packages I've added or removed from the mix (I could just do a diff between the final and original packages.txt file, but my method is more readable).


On the other hand, you have to take into account that most people making a custom Puppy are doing it for the first time or two, and are doing it for "fun". I didn't get very big on documenting my work until I started doing commercial Puppies, the first of which was my fourth custom Puppy if I remember right (preceded by two Pizzapups and Empty Crust). But now I document even the non-commercial Puppies, for the reasons I listed earlier. It has come in handy countless times now.


Hey, I'm just a lazy (but ridiculously busy) 19 year old college kid who hasn't even emptied his trash can in two months (and the garbage chute is literally across the hall from my apartment). If I can spare the time and thought to document my work, anyone can.

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2007, 04:40    Post subject:  

Quote:
I, too, would like to make a plea to developers to make a little more info about their Puppy versions available


I have been using this online mind-mapping facility
http://www.mindomo.com/

which would be ideal for updates to the chart in the first post

You can see an example here
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=LinuxTmxxine10

that would be fun project if anyone is up for it Smile

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10752
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2007, 08:30    Post subject:  

technowomble wrote:
setecio wrote:
Nice. An informative way of representing the derivatives and gives a quick overview of what is out there. Very Happy

Another chart which I think would be great would be a chart of derivatives vrs machine power, somehow showing a rough layout (relating to CPU / RAM) of which derivatives are aimed at older lower powered machines, and which at more powerful.


I'd second that. As a newcomer to Puppy - but with some years Linux experience - it would be useful to know how much memory a particular Puppy version needs to run entirely in RAM and how much space a full HD install would require. At the moment my Dell Latitude CPi lappie ( P2 400Mhz, 192MB RAM, 6GB HD ) is my sole computer, but once I've replaced my defunct desktop I plan to install Puppy on it. ' Auditioning ' various Puppy versions I've found that Puppy3 and Shard will run and shutdown OK, but larger versions such as Fire Hydrant tend to hang up if asked to do anything intensive in RAM.


Well when it comes to the "inferno" version of fire hydrant, It would be best to do a full install, that would free up the memory issue. When I run it live i have 2 gigs of ddr2 800, so it runs fine from cd, I had it up and running for 2 weeks and never hung. But once again that was because of the size of memory i had. Most don't go that extreme so i do recommend a full install.
ttuuxxx Smile
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