ChurchPup Alpha Discussion

[LOF]

This is the place to discuss the ChurchPup Alpha and all subsequent development from here on in.

So... What do people think of it? What do you want to see in the beta?

[MyPup]

I have been looking forward to churchpup for a while glad to see it finally take off. Although, I could not get on the web with it. I do like some of the features like the tool bar and having wine makes it more practical as there are not very many Bible programs for Linux that I know of. While waiting for churchpup I had tried to adapt several programs (Christian) to puppy and I found that bibledesktop has some issues but i understand it is about the only thing you can use unless windows apps are used so wine is a great idea. I found a very small and simple app called christondisk that was designed to use on a formated 1.72 floppy I also used a freeware program called gospel parallels,e sword and swordsearcher I hope that people will like churchpup its just what puppy has been needing a Christian edition will be of great use to help spread the gospel of Jesus Christ . i will be looking forward to using the beta in a non-profit refurb project like the one we did here http://www.helpingtulsa.org/news/20051207.htm
Thanks to all who are working for the glory of our Father.

[PrairieDog]

Thanks so much for stopping by MyPup

i will be looking forward to using the beta in a non-profit refurb project

Is there anything we can do to create a Churchpup more suited to your refurb project? I'd be willing to do a version tailored to your specific needs if it will help. Please pray about it and post here again sometime. Thank you for the link, It looks like a Tremendous Project

Be not conformed to this world

Mark

[ttuuxxx]

Hi well i downloaded Church Pup and gave it a shot, and here's my report on the good and not so good.

Good
- the applications used for bible searches is excellent
- no errors on start up
- Desktop looks excellent
- Great selection of backgrounds
- Great selection of software

- works well

Not so good
-Default icewm themes from ezpup 3.0, way overdone, Just about every icewm distro uses these themes, The only reason why i use them is the default icewm pet or pup package installs icewm incorrectly, meaning the taskbar hight is 31pixels instead of 21, which is a big deal to me, because i like altering the themes. But in the future maybe look here for hundreds of icewm themes. http://www.kde-look.org/?xcontentmode=18

-The size of the Beast, around 460mb and used up 760mb of ram on my pc, Thats ok for me because i have 2 gigs of ddr2, But puppy users in general don't. I suggest make 2 versions, a light version with abiword, no wine, open-office, around 190 Mb, or even a fat free one possibly.

-Pfind 2.7 is flawed when you do a search, it finds the file, but when you click Selection/show Location it always takes you to the default pfind directory, when actually it should be taking you to the one you selected from the results menu. I fell for that also. But you can get 2.9 here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 54&t=15136

The default connect to the internet has changed to the manual install driver version, The last 10 or so releases of puppy linux has had a nework automated install, it auto looks for the card. I even tried to let it find the drivers and couldn't. While this version somehow has been left it out? I spent over 20 mins trying to figure out which Network Card drivers i needed, since my motherboard is a asus with the Lan embedded on the motherboard. Finally i gave up with the net, and just tested everything else.

For a alpha release i give this a 10/10 excellent work
For a beta release i give this a 8/10 even better
And if i was Microsoft i would have it on the shelves straight away and have the fixes in service pack 1,lol And call it christa lol

Oh well keep up the excellent work guys, I think Church pup will go a far way. Once again excellent job and cheers:)
www.ttuuxxx.com

[WhoDo]

Not so good
-Default icewm themes from ezpup 3.0, way overdone, Just about every icewm distro uses these themes, The only reason why i use them is the default icewm pet or pup package installs icewm incorrectly, meaning the taskbar hight is 31pixels instead of 21, which is a big deal to me, because i like altering the themes. But in the future maybe look here for hundreds of icewm themes. http://www.kde-look.org/?xcontentmode=18

A suggestion to the developers. There is no reason why you can't have your own default IceWM theme exclusive to Churchpup. I'll even help create/modify/update a theme if you wish.

Let me know what you need and I'll see what I can produce from my box of tricks that will be for your exclusive use ... meaning I won't offer it with EZpup.

Cheers

[ttuuxxx]

Not so good
-Default icewm themes from ezpup 3.0, way overdone, Just about every icewm distro uses these themes, The only reason why i use them is the default icewm pet or pup package installs icewm incorrectly, meaning the taskbar hight is 31pixels instead of 21, which is a big deal to me, because i like altering the themes. But in the future maybe look here for hundreds of icewm themes. http://www.kde-look.org/?xcontentmode=18

A suggestion to the developers. There is no reason why you can't have your own default IceWM theme exclusive to Churchpup. I'll even help create/modify/update a theme if you wish.

Let me know what you need and I'll see what I can produce from my box of tricks that will be for your exclusive use ... meaning I won't offer it with EZpup.

Cheers

Excellent WhoDo I started remastering your themes for them yesterday, Basically your start buttons, But what I've seen you do in the past is amazing and do respect your work fully, actually the work you can do is better then i could at this moment because i am still somewhat new to themes.
If i could suggest a theme I would envision a theme based on light pastel colours, Like a tan and no xp/vista glass, more like a Linux Mint theme. Where it looks business orientated yet you still feel at home. Kind of a coming together of styles home/business.
But really I have no say what happens here, Thats up to them to decided, But i do thank you for your time.
www.ttuuxx.com

[PrairieDog]

Thanks for for the kind words, wisdom and suggestions, ttuuxxx and WhoDo
We can use all the expertise we can get considering who our lead developer is, ...oh right that's me...At any rate our leader LOF really has the final word, but as far as your proposed icewm enhancements, I bet he'd say "go for it!" Only with an English accent.
I would guess he's busy dealing with work ,family, or ministry. Last I heard Subito Piano was off to a Christian school teachers convention, so I'll respond as best I can in their stead,
ttuuxxx I'll be checking into the items you described and I'm sure we'll be switching to the newer Pfind. As for the network driver ,install I'll have to get back with you. This based on my first "unleashed" puppy and I probably messed up somewhere.
A thought has been rolling around the heads of a few of us to offer a "Churchpup lite" of some kind. That might help with the size issue. One of the things that has always defined Puppy Linux is it's small size and low system requirements. A lite version might cut the size in half and make it useful on some older hardware.

I'll be checking the alpha carefully and communicating with LOF, I'll post what I find and fix here. and I'll yell for help here concerning what I can't fix..

Let all the earth keep silence before Him

Thanks again all, Mark

[KF6SNJ]

I tried the forcedeth, tulip, and d-link network modules and all of them failed. Likewise, alsa config no will not recognize my sound card as emu10k. So, as nice at it looks, I can't use it.....yet. Also, I agree that it is probably a bit too large in terms of the size of the ISO. Is there any way that it could be cut down by about 150Mb? My first suggestion would be to get rid of wine cfg.

[PrairieDog]

Howdy KF6SNJ,
The alpha does have quite a few short comings don't it? The team and I have pretty much decided there will also be a lighter version of ChurchPup developed alongside this one. I think I found and corrected the network module mistake I made in building the unleashed puppy. Maybe you could test that for me before I embarrass myself a second time? As far as the size of the main release, I think it's never gong to be a "run totally in ram" puppy unless you have a lot of it. Unless of course we offer some of the bigger less critical apps as add-ons. But I'll let LOF make the call there. Wine is a Good candidate for that by the way. I truly hope the beta will be more useful to you. It's being assembled right now. More info to come.....

Be of good courage, and He shall strengthen your heart

Mark

I tried the forcedeth, tulip, and d-link network modules and all of them failed. Likewise, alsa config no will not recognize my sound card as emu10k. So, as nice at it looks, I can't use it.....yet. Also, I agree that it is probably a bit too large in terms of the size of the ISO. Is there any way that it could be cut down by about 150Mb? My first suggestion would be to get rid of wine cfg.

[KF6SNJ]

Mark,

Thanks. I really like what I see. However, without network access so that I can install the modules for BibleDesktop, I just can not use it quite yet. Still, very commendable. Let me know when the beta release is ready. I'd love to have first crack at beta testing it. Still, I think this will prove a very useful tool for introducing Linux to Christians who have been intimidated by some of the other Christian distros (some of those are around 650Mb and the installer doesn't even work right). Again, thanks. I look forward to the next release. For now, I will continue with Puppy 3.00 and we'll see from there.

[WhoDo]

We can use all the expertise we can get considering who our lead developer is, ...oh right that's me...At any rate our leader LOF really has the final word, but as far as your proposed icewm enhancements, I bet he'd say "go for it!" Only with an English accent.

Ok, so here are a couple of brand new, never been seen before, WhoDo originals that might suit what you guys would like to see as the default face of Churchpup. Whichever one you don't pick will be in the next edition of EZpup, but your choice will be exclusive to Churchpup. Enjoy!

Aquamarine:


Coppermine:

[Subito Piano]

This is great! SOOO good to see the interest and HELP from those who have been around awhile. I can't speak for the others but i am SUCH a neophyte...

There has been a lot of discussion as to the vision for ChruchPup, and i think going two-track (i.e., Full-Size and Lite) is the best answer. I also think the full-size release should get to final release first, since it is already in process. Then we can go lite. I don't think we want two pursuits at once. Mark -- you are doing a GREAT job, keep it up! (I Cor. 15:58 )

FWIW, i started with Puppy 2.17 and used the firefox-thunderbird.pet, ProCon, and a few other add-ons to produce what seems to be a stable "home-cooked" version for my students' use (utilizing Dougal's Puppy Remaster). All seems to work just fine. Perhaps the Lite version should be built upon the base of 3.01 or 4.0 rather than from scratch?

Anyway, thanks to all testers, especially for the encouraging spirit of your words.

[PrairieDog]

but i am SUCH a neophyte.

Um.... uh... according to wikipedia you are "a plant species recently introduced to an area" Oh I get it, a metaphor.

Mark

[Subito Piano]

LOL!!! Yeah, pretty green, too...

[WhoDo]

Just a couple of wallpaper ideas for Churchpup.

CityLife:



Alljungen:



LazyDays:

[KF6SNJ]

WhoDo,

Those look really great. Bravo Zulu on a job well done. I especially liked the CityLife one. It has a certain subtleness to it. Cool.

[cb88]

IMO all the big addons should be developed as sfs modules and uploaded then they can be mounted and copied into a single folder then that folder can be rebuilt as an sfs to make full blown churchpup

I just remastered teenpup this way by mounting pup_214.sfs and copying its contents to a folder then also copying the contents of devx_214.sfs so it now has Gcc also then removed the old pup_214.sfs from the iso with isomaster that is already in puppy and added in the new pup_214.sfs

the contributions such as the latest wine or java or whatever should be available to all puppy users not just churchpup as that goes I would like to remaster teen pup with the bible apps....

It may be even better to package these packages as .7z files since they have very good compression and then repackage them client side so you could implement a super puppy remaster system on par with nimblex linux. another reason to package as .7z is that .sfs files use up loop devices when you mount them so far I have no idea how to get these back after unmounting so I can only mount a couple before having to reboot so i can mount more....

personally I would like to see an ncurses based bible app without java or anything call it picochurchpup... its all about spreading The Word

[Subito Piano]

I agree that anything created for ChurchPup should definitely be made available through the regular Puppy pages to all users -- once the add-ons are thoroughly tested.

I know that we could create a minimal ChurchPup (Lite version) and leave it at that, letting users download and install sfs files or dotpets, etc. I like the idea of TWO churchpups, both full-size and lite. My thinking is always to accommodate (and attract) the new linux user. I also want to have two choices "ready-to-go" on a live CD for those who don't know how to remaster, and honestly don't have enough time to learn how to do it.

I think in this way we will be able to kindle interest from those who have never tried anything but Windows as well as accommodate the seasoned linux regulars--not to mention enabling the use of older equipment, assisting those with limited funds, and all the usual Puppy benefits.

It was pointed out to me that probably the "lite" should have come first, then the full-size. It's a good point! Alas, it's a little late. Probably no lite before January 1 at the earliest...

[cb88]

agreed what i was aiming at is a lot of people myself included will not want to use church pup all the time but would rather remaster say bibledesktop into thier own puppy.....

the full iso is also ideal for churches and I think it is a good idea I in no way meant that only remastering should be offered (yes i realize you didn't say that just restating) but it is an essential option for the functions in churchpup to actaully be taken up and used

as you already know I highly dislike bloat like java and wine even though there isn't a better option

the fact is that a generic bible program that is written in c (maximum portablity and cleaness of code....but perhaps even a bash script would even be adequate...) with minimal dependancies and console gtk or sdl output is needed...

[KF6SNJ]

the fact is that a generic bible program that is written in c (maximum portablity and cleaness of code....but perhaps even a bash script would even be adequate...) with minimal dependancies and console gtk or sdl output is needed...

You have a valid point. The problem is that most of us may want something that is capable of using the pre-existing sword modules rather than having to create our own (though I may have to do this anyway for the Theologia Germanica). The question then becomes how do we create a program that will fill that need without using java? What if we want to compare multiple translations and/or languages? Concordances? Lexicons? While a casual Bible study may not require such tools, a serious Bible scholar, pastor, or seminary student will. It takes quite a few references to write a report about a topic of scripture or to write a sermon, which I have done both. A generic console Bible parsing tool won't suffice in such a situation. Again, it boils down to need. Very few programs are available that can fill this need. I will state plainly that a console based program would likely not work for my needs.