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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Developer for 'Custom' Version?
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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I'm interested in this if it is developed.
Yes, and I'll help pay for the development.
40%
 40%  [ 2 ]
Yes, and I'll be very interested in trying it if you get it done.
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
No, this is not what Pupply is about... go download Xandros!
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
Ignore that guy.. I'm a developer and I'm interested in doing this project!
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 5

Author Message
friedsonjm

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2007, 17:20    Post subject:  Developer for 'Custom' Version?  

Is there some intrepid soul out there with the knowledge and time to do a 'custom' version of Puppy? You would be paid [modestly?] for you time. It would include:

Network setup/identification like [or from?] pclinuxos, with particular emphasis on wireless, including proprietary drivers etc. Take a look at the 'Tinyme' version of pclos and you will see what I mean. Also, 'system info on the screen' ram use, cpu use, etc. as that version and others do. WPA must work! Right hand corner of bottom panel shows network status/control by default.

The 'female computer voice' from Knoppix on boot-up and shut down. [Look, you've got your fantasies, I've got mine, OK?]

Open Office, Seamonkey/Firefox, Thunderbird.

Must do 'full install' to USB thumb drive, defaulting to placing grub/lilo or whatever on the USB drive, NOT the hard drive, and using ext file system [if that is possible] rather than fat16. Options like 'nopcmcia' need to be able to be set when booting from the thumb drive.

Default window manager should be lightweight, with a couple of other options offered as well. [Ice? Flux?]

Drive discovery and mounting - NTFS, cdrom, etc. needs to be easy and mostly automatic.

CUPS starts up by default, the most complete and recent set of printer drivers is included, and whatever possible is done to make printer setup 'easy.'

SAMBA setup and sharing is made as painless and automatic as possible.

All icons are as business-like and classy as possible; menus are logical and programs are most-friendly-and-likely-to-be-used variety... more is NOT better.

Firewall and antiviru [clamv? f-prot?] are included and started by default.

Other stuff you know I should have asked for and did not!

Any takers?

John

30 day interest poll on this...
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2007, 20:55    Post subject:  

I can do it if you're not on a deadline. I don't have time for deadlines. School comes first. But it would be interesting work, and being paid is always good Smile

On the other hand, I have to say up front that I know nothing about Samba, but I can learn (in fact, just this afternoon I got the NIC for my other computer, so I can start teaching myself about networking now).

The same goes for hardware detection.

What will it be used for? As in, would it have to be able to handle all kinds of random hardware configurations, or do you have a specific layout you want to use? Specifics I can handle, but if it needs to just work on whatever happens to be there, I can't make any gurantees (really, not much more than what Puppy does already, other than maybe adding some drivers. I know nothing about hardware detection).


If nothing else, I could do what I can, then you could have someone else do what I can't.


But I'm not kidding about being busy, so if you're in a hurry I can't help.

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Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

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friedsonjm

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2007, 22:00    Post subject:  

No, I'm not in a big rush; I see a good distro that could be 'better,' at least by my definition, and if I can afford it, well, I guess you could call it a hobby expense! right now I'm trying to get the 'lighthouse' version working on my very fussy machine, getting close with 'superfloppy' install to USB, but its still not what I want.

I would suggest we lay out some sort of target end date - based on what you realistically think you can do.

By the way, as an old dbase programmer, let me advise.. do your best estimate, then double it!

jf
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2007, 23:55    Post subject:  

I can certainly recommend Pizzasgood as able and willing
Smile

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/CommercialSupport

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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 00:15    Post subject:  

Speaking not as my usual meek, mild Puppy-loving self, but rather as a fellow old xBase/Clipper programmer...If Puppy had the same directory tree structure as Gentoo, rather than Barry aiming to mimic that ...thing... called Slackware,...then creating your ideal Puplet--in fact, anybody's ideal Puplet--would be child's play, since an rxvt window within Puppy can be chroot'ed into a full-install Gentoo partition. After the chroot, the unrivalled power of Gentoo's Portage package management system, next to which T2 looks pathetic by comparison, is available to Puppy. All one would need to do is, from a second Puppy distro, run a diff script to copy-over the customized Gentoo install apps, libs, et cetera to the target Puppy partition, then create an .iso. The dependencies-resolution would be as close as it is humanly possible to come, to being mathematically perfect. By simply using the same autoloads of device modules as Gentoo's live-CD or stage 3 tarball use, and the same default kernel switches, Puppy would attain the same practically total ability to boot from anything that Gentoo has.
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Fri 31 Aug 2007, 19:06; edited 1 time in total
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friedsonjm

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 00:45    Post subject:  

Um, pizzasgood, if what Sit Heel Speak said make sense to you, and we want/need to do it, add it to the list?

Actually, upon reading it.. I think that means a whole new distro - and I don't know if we want to start that program!

thoughts?

jf
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4785
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 00:51    Post subject: pizza  

So now you have a Pizza Smile and you can remove your (strange) survey questions above...

It will be good for Pizzasgood (training-wise, etc), so I hope you've got your contract sealed.

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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 00:56    Post subject:  

friedsonjm wrote:
...Actually, upon reading it.. I think that means a whole new distro
What I'm hypothesizing here, is really Puppy 3 or Puppy 4. Assuming I haven't provoked Barry into summarily banning me from this forum for heresy Twisted Evil !

Barry, if you are reading this, a related question:

Does the copyright Barry Kauler notice, appear everywhere that you have customized a script? Or are there some which would escape find|grep's notice if I attempted the ambitious conversion myself?
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10839
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 00:57    Post subject: how's this idea  

I would consult Jeremiah Cheatham at http://myah.org/ jeremiah@myah.org he made myah os linux from scratch like barry and puppy, but myah its more business related, and way more stable, Jeremiah actually responds to his emails unlike barry and i think he's a good guy. With Myah everything tends to install by itself like you wanted, and myah has a new package manager. just an idea, if not Pizzasgood is a good choice for someone with the know-how with puppy. or another excellent linux distro is linuxmint. who knows if you get a puppy version done, i hope you release it to the public, i would more than be happy to try it out, also if its business related, you might also ask for it to have a login in screen for user or admin/root. since puppy is extremely unsecured for business settings. Full root access 24/7 by anyone, and don't let them try to con you into the grafpup way, because thats very basic security. And really shouldn't everything these days be secure? Could you imagine puppy as a server for a bank, where anyone can view everything? LOL also if you wanted custom graphics, feel free to contact me at ttuuxxx@gmail.com and have a look at www.ttuuxxx.com for a feel of what i can do.
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friedsonjm

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 01:04    Post subject: Re: how's this idea  

ttuuxxx wrote:
if its business related, you might also ask for it to have a login in screen for user or admin/root. since puppy is extremely unsecured for business settings.


THAT most definitely goes on the list! jf
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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 02:40    Post subject: Re: how's this idea  

ttuuxxx wrote:
I would consult Jeremiah Cheatham at http://myah.org/ jeremiah@myah.org he made myah os linux from scratch like barry and puppy, but myah its more business related, and way more stable, Jeremiah actually responds to his emails unlike barry and i think he's a good guy...


i think either probably is also.

Barry seems more interested in a larger cause than money alone (not that anyone wouldn't be able to use some extra cash).
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4785
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 04:52    Post subject: email and size  

(I guess Barry does not receive many emails - I sent 3 in succession and he didn't get any - this is standard trouble in trying to keep your own email address.

As to myah, it's 600+MB, so it's quite far off (size=9x) comparing with a Puppy...

and this remark is not exactly related to the thread, so please ignore Smile )

Ah, well, if jf wants a 600+ MB build, then this post is relevant.

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friedsonjm

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 10:24    Post subject:  

Actually, 'what I want' is a great question...
1. I'm NOT concerned with iso size - 700MB max.

2. I am VERY concerned about impact on memory - I want the machine to feel and be fast. Small window managers, and minimum stuff on the desktop that eats RAM or CPU time.

3. I am SOMEWHAT concerned about the eventual size of what is loaded on the USB stick, hard drive, etc. For example, the system should be able to run very comfortably on a 1GB drive. No duplicate capabilities: one file manager, one word processor, etc. An option to do a 'frugal' install that does NOT copy over unneeded drivers, etc., just the ones you have chosen in getting the machine up and running from CD. Kind of a combination of remaster and install, I guess...

And why based on Puppy? For starters, because of Superfloppy mode already established, and because of the development community, which has a willingness to support the idea of 'minor derivatives.'

jf
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 22:26    Post subject:  

Quote:
And really shouldn't everything these days be secure? Could you imagine puppy as a server for a bank, where anyone can view everything? LOL

But Puppy wasn't designed to be run as a bank server, now, was it? It's more for the casual single user who considers the extremely small chance of being compromised worth the ease and comfort of running as root. That chance is big compared to the very secure distros, but only in the way that 10^-9 is very big compared to 10^-11. Taken by itself, it's small.

Of course, that only applies to said single-casual-user. In multi-user environments, or when you are a larger target, something more secure might outweigh convenience.


Time estimates I'm not good at. Sometimes something seemingly complex takes minutes and something simple takes hours. I'd say late-October, barring unforseen difficulties. Using your algorithm, that would make it January (It should be December, but that isn't taking into account that I have Finals then, and probably visiting my family immediately afterwards. So it becomes January).

But that might be completely off. I'm being pretty conservative about how much free time/energy I'll have and how much work it will take.

Quote:
1. I'm NOT concerned with iso size - 700MB max.

That's good. I doubt it would get that big, even with a truck load of drivers.

As for hardware impact, I don't think the stuff you're asking for will hurt that much. If it bloats the ISO enough that it's wasting ram just from being in the pup_xxx.sfs file, it could be removed into a separate .sfs and mounted separately (and automatically, of course) to keep it out of ram. OpenOffice would probably have to be done that way, unless you have lots of ram and want it starting at the fastest possible speed. Alternately, it could be kept separate and optionally be loaded into ram on each boot (through a simple wizard). That way if you normally don't use it much but need it a bunch for a short stretch here and there, you can just toggle that. Or if you run it on both low-ram and high-ram machines.




Quote:
(I guess Barry does not receive many emails - I sent 3 in succession and he didn't get any - this is standard trouble in trying to keep your own email address.

I know that the hard way. I got a '0' on a Health test and thus a 'C' in the class last semester partly because of my email filter. I had forgotten we had a test that day (they were online tests, and I also had a normal test which distracted me, and I forgot) so I emailed the teacher to see if I could take it the next day with a penalty. She replied, but it got trashed. I wasn't expecting her to agree anyway, so I didn't think it was strange. I could have taken it the next day with only a 25% penalty, but I didn't know it until four months later. Too late. Sad

I've improved the filtering now though, and that's just my school account. My personal email works fine (and doesn't get near as much spam).



Well friedsonjm, if you're interested, I think it will run between $100 and $400, assuming my estimates are correct. I won't really know until I start working, because it depends on how much effort and time it takes, which I won't know until I do it Rolling Eyes Send me a PM if you're interested and I'll give you my email address (the personal one, so it won't get filtered out Wink )

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friedsonjm

Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug 2007, 00:23    Post subject:  

Well, then, this project is a 'go.' For any who are interested and willing, I'd like to hear what you would like to see to make the end result easy to get up and running, and to use. Networking, including wireless with WPA is high on my list, video, printing, and SAMBA are high on my list, for starters.

Also, while I have my own opinions about the basic best-of-breed applications, I certainly would like some feedback on best:
File manager.
CD/DVD Burner.
Music Applications.
and so forth. Remember, I plan for only a single program for a function - one web browser, not two or three, one terminal program, etc. Those with 'pet' applications can always add their favorites later, I'm looking for clear complete menus, not overwhelming choices, and applications that are efficient and effective, not esoteric.

And, oh yeah, a name.. once we have that, I'll start a new thread.

jf
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