One year with Puppy Linux (by Mark South)

[klhrevolutionist]

I think this weeks distrowatch weekly was a good one. It is good that they used puppy as the example. This does a lot of thing for puppy & the linux communities.

The first being it will try and push the forum mods to a higher standard. The second is giving puppy exposure, much needed since the mods have alienated most vets... and third it gives exposure to this ever increasing censorship movement that wishes to quell the voices of the people on the internet, whether it be in the gnu/linux communities or anywhere else.

Whodo: i don't know how rascism plays into this and there have been very few reports to suggest that rascism is a factor in this discussion. So, that excuse to censor does not fly with me.

WhoDo: "Society dictates that even Freedom must have its limits."

I ask that we get out of this group think and let the individual be without restriction. It is only the spammers who post porn links, the regular joe may enjoy porn and maybe he wishes to discuss it with fellow users and he or she has an outlet on the web. But if we should ban and restrict in the name of prevention from something that has yet to come about then we are failing ourselves already. This idea that their is a threat right around the corner is getting old.

Let us deal with such things when they surface and grow a pair already. Until then use not one excuse to censor. I too agree that post need to be moved into the correct category, but censoring is not the answer as I hope to have expressed in this post.

[GuestToo]

it will try and push the forum mods to a higher standard

i am not at all sure what you are talking about, but over and over again statements have been made that imply that moderators have the power to delete posts

this is simply not true ... period.

i have had "moderator" status since this forum was first started, and i have never had the power to delete a post ... not even my own posts

here is a screenshot of this thread in the section of the forum in which i am a moderator:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=19272
http://i19.tinypic.com/628rsib.png

this is what happens if i click the delete button (top right corner of the post, an X icon):
http://i8.tinypic.com/4mb7axv.png

moderators have never had the power to delete posts on this forum, and i am getting a little weary of repeating that statement over and over again ... for some reason, it does not seem to sink in

alternative links if the above links don't work:
http://tinypic.com/628rsib.png
http://tinypic.com/4mb7axv.png

[Lobster]

Penguins have a habit of forming their own conclusions.

Our ranking for the last 7 days on DistroWitchHunt (maybe I was never banned and it was all a huge mix up - who knows - who cares) is already going up thanks to Marks article . . .

So he is still supporting Puppy and its adoption and interests . . .
Thanks Mark

Sometimes opposition strenghtens

Maybe someone else can write about their Puppy forum experience for DistroWatch? I would but am totally biased towards the general positive help and support provided by a bunch of wandering cyber geeks.

Be kind to Borat - apparantly he has two minds (me too - at least two).
He is not a pro journalist and that is why Distrowatch is so good - well I like it . . .

I originally joined Puppy kennels when we used Simpleforums - I loved the interface and the people like GuestToo who were helpful to new users and Linux virgins. Then we started losing posts (the forum software could not cope with the volume). So we just moved on up . . .

We are now at a volume of users where the paranoid and the mentally ill (that would be me!) and other deviants - come to think of it being normal is a penguin deviancy - will also have a voice . . .

Saying something does not make it true. Nor repeating it. I would say that again but I have a mermaid to catch . . .

[Sage]

You are completely and utterly wrong, G2. You too have been duped. I have never complained about your moderation or other pronouncement, nor tempo - indeed I have the highest regard for you both, grateful for your assistance and comments.
But we all know who is the fly in this ointment. Indeed, if you examine my inbox, for which I grant permission should it be required, you will find an admission of deletion of one of my posts, barely an apology, from the guy who is and always has been creating mayhem around here. Sometimes, John's laudable loyalty results in us all being shot in the foot.
I break my own guideline for the first time in commenting, or even reading the contribution in this thread by Ken khlr. He is correct on this point. I strongly support his right to express his opinions. And mine not to read them.
If John wants advice from someone with forty years of top level scientific editorial work, dealing with some of the world's ultimate prima donnas, he knows how to contact me. Policy and firmness does not exclude good manners and communication between dissenting parties.

[John Doe]

John also made a big mistake about Gn2 in my opinion - that guy outshine everyone else here in the literary and humour stakes.

I totally agree. I thought his posts were brilliant and said as much.

So many things are a question of perception . . . egos are fragile . . . geek egos are ultra fragile . . . Not enough attention and they are capable of all kinds of odd interpretations . . .

YA!! Bring back Gn2!!

I had no idea there was a ban. I would have raised hell!

Those posts were good. They seemed to be oriented in a "teach a man to fish" sort of way (but in a vauge sense with some perceived "rough spots").

Should we take this to a vote?

[iscraigh]

Read the article, a little long winded but not bad.
It promoted puppy a lot. I have not had any negative experiences with puppy or the forum. If Mark is correct (about posts being deleted)and I suspect he was, this should serve as a reminder to the moderators of the responsibility they have
to us regular joe's. People who dissent keep the rest of us thinking and aware, present new ideas, and generally make life interesting. So before a post is deleted or moved carefully consider your motives.

Craig

[WhoDo]

WhoDo: "Society dictates that even Freedom must have its limits."

I ask that we get out of this group think and let the individual be without restriction.

That's called Anarchy, Kenny, and it benefits no-one IMHO. It is the "without restriction" part that causes all the trouble. The rights of the individual MUST be protected but they MUST also be subject to the will of the majority. I don't want anarchy in my society or on my online forum. I want order and I want respect in both places. If I am in the minority with those desires then I will happily withdraw.

Cheers

[ttuuxxx]

Well this looks like a cat fight to me meowwwwwww meowwwwwwwww
I just hope who ever was goofing around, learned one important lesson, Don't drink and drive, ummm no that wasn't it, what you do in these forums not only influence people who reads this forums only, but the whole world of Linux may, as in this case. Basically puppy got a black eye because of one clown not just him but everyone who believes in Puppy. So we might have to try a little harder now to promote puppy, but I am one guys who says "Puppy is the Best, Hands Down". Lets turn the cheek and get back to business. The Business of spreading the world about Puppy and all its greatness, lets not turn a cloudy day into a cold winter, The sun will come out tomorrow or the next day.Ok maybe you have the point now , lets just stop blaming and start sharing ideas how we can improve puppy, and how can we make it stand way above every other Linux Distro, and how One day we will take #1 position on Distro Watch. I have a dream, A dream of a puppy in every house, in every home. And the name on the label of the dog food is MICROSOFT. bowooooooooooooooooooooooo. Ya i thought that was a bit overboard, but hey i'm trying to get you guys off topic, less said, less to forgive. Have a nice day and happy Canada Day July 1st.

[cb88]

Gn2 banned?!!! since when?
how come? yeah he doesn't follow the pack sometimes and sometimes incites arguments but kick him out? no, he is often good help and offers a unique perspective.

An argument out in the open is better than one through email no one ever hears about. Would that be hate mail?

who deleted the posts anyhow? is this a separate issue? the post deleter should be banned.

[John Doe]

who deleted the posts anyhow? is this a separate issue? the post deleter should be banned.

I think he's referring to when the forum was getting hardware switched and re-configured. There where a few weeks of problems. Most of us made it through it.

[Dougal]

who deleted the posts anyhow? is this a separate issue? the post deleter should be banned.

I think he's referring to when the forum was getting hardware switched and re-configured. There where a few weeks of problems. Most of us made it through it.

No. as Sage mentioned above, there have been cases of moderators deleting posts, just like they have moved posts around -- sometimes to very strange places.

I agree that there was reason to ban Gn2, as he had a tendency to flood threads with unrelated posts and practically kill them (I reacall one case when the user gave up when the thread was 5 pages long, most of them full of irrelevant ramblings).
However, by the same standard a couple of the moderators of this forum should probably be banned, too.

Banning Mark was just plain stupid.

[raffy]

This third page of the thread on Puppy or DSL could lead us to a possible explanation:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 6&start=30

I remember that someone posted an ad just after the first post (on that third page) by disciple. Then alienjeff put up a third post cautioning the reader about the said ad.

Now both second and third posts have disappeared. A new post there by stevesr0 has appeared.

Note, too, that John's post (please check the links above) mentions that Gn2 was the first person banned in this forum. That leaves Marksouth as an active member. You can check Mark's posts through this search.

EDIT: He had a funny statement there:

PS To all the many friends I have made here, goodbye. I expect that this is the last posting I will ever be able to make, even if it lasts longer than a few minutes.

[Lobster]

Nathan has replied to some of the points that Mark has made
http://www.grafpup.org/news/

[aahhaaa]

I was a bit shocked to see Puppy so roughly handled on distrowatch. It was a bit vague as to the actual problems, jumping from early version hardware snafus to what mostly seemed like purely forum issues. Someone just browsing the article might not make the right distinctions, so it seems kinda vindictive.

However... you've prob'ly noticed that the mature distros get beaten up plenty on distrowatch. So I guess in a way you guys have arrived.

[Wolf Pup]

now this is on digg http://digg.com/linux_unix/Puppy_Linux_ ... t_it_to_be

[alienjeff]

Murga and his rogue moderator now reap what they've sown.

-aj

[willhunt]

I really think anyone who reads this will see it is transparent! IMHO there
are just two kind of fourm users those who want to help and those who want to be heard
The sad but true fact is as more ppl learn that puppy is a good thing
more and more detractors will appear I've been here 2 years
and Loving it! and think whomever is running this forum is on top of
there game most don't make it that long


BTW: What censor issue I see aj can still post discent
Ps:was not thomas hooker taft's grandfather taft the most currupt prez before this one

[Lobster]

I found this idea on Distrowatch (I can post there again incidentallly) Thanks Borat. Have I been reinstated for bad behaviour? Was I never actually banned? A computer glitch? I was often an early comment poster. Complaints from the fish? Frankly I have no idea.

I mean I do have an idea - from someone else . . .

"I prefer community based modding and patrolling. If a post is abusive or mislabeled, the community can flag it for deletion or editing."

Can this be applied to this forum? I would love to see this. It would make us all responsible for moderating and ensure that removing spam would be more a community effort . . .

[Trobin]

"I prefer community based modding and patrolling. If a post is abusive or mislabeled, the community can flag it for deletion or editing."

Can this be applied to this forum? I would love to see this. It would make us all responsible for moderating and ensure that removing spam would be more a community effort . . .

My first thought is that it wouldn't work. Take a look at the viewpoints posted on this thread. Some supportr Mark. Some ap[pear to want him tarred and feathered. Both side appear to be passionate about their positions. In the end, munless you gave everyone the power to delete, or move, posts, the final decisions would have to be m,ade by one or two people. I'm thinking it would be a recipe for disaster.

As for Mark's article, I rather liked it. He didn't bash Puppy itself. but he did say that the total Puppy experience was somewhat less than fullfilling because of the way he beieved he was treaed on the forum. Well nothing, not even Puppy, is perfect, The total Puppy experience can only be improved if people speak up about the imperfections they encounter.

[JohnMurga]

Murga and his rogue moderator now reap what they've sown.

You really have a very particular way of being constructive Jeff.

Not that I normally have a lot of time for this crap, but the e-mails I have received make it hard to ignore. Despite the fact that I become homeless tomorrow I have to say I am particularly appalled and upset over this, and once I have resolved my own problems you and others may reap what you've been sowing.

There have been concerted and continued efforts to discredit and push out certain members of this forum and generally bitch about things that are of no benefit to the community ... I have responded by trying to moderate and create forums to ensure people could express themselves freely within the proper context.

However, this has obviously not been working ... And recent events confirm this.

So maybe it's time do something drastic.

Without prejudice
JohnM

PS : I also posted a comment on distrowatch.