Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Gn2 · Posted: Wed 25 Apr 2007, 18:32 Post subject:

Thnx Dougal (disktype)

Yes, fdisk will show IF any partition is flagged as "bootable"
But Linux doesn't require that flag (M.S. does > I/Out portion of intiate instructions)

Further, a loader may be "chained".... for BIOS to find/read contigous boot bytes

Recall, after install - Initrd is NOT a requisite to boot - only the loader to point BIOS to
2nd stage of initiation sequence.
Users often confuse - the MBR is located on First hard drive FOUND containing initial boot data:
That device need NOT be hda !!
Change cabling -or Bios boot sequence - where the first loader instruction set was installed will not necessarily be found by BIOS

Boot instructions may reside on other media (I.E. Syslinux-there are others)

bobn9lvu · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 173

Sit Heel Speak · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 2595 Location: downwind

bostonvaulter · Joined: 26 Sep 2006 Posts: 269

@Dougal

Yes my menu.lst file is in hda5/boot/grub/menu.lst

miriam · Posted: Thu 26 Apr 2007, 01:40 Post subject:

Dougal, I am impressed! It worked like a charm! The installer saw the partitions on the hdc drive and installed Puppy on /mnt/hdc2 exactly like I wanted.

I did have a little problem at first, of no /boot dir being created, but I think that was because I opted out when it moved on to the grubconfig part. I figured I didn't need to configure it because I already had it installed (on my old Puppy installation). I intended to simply go in later with a text editor and edit the old menu.lst file to start my new Puppy installation. But with no /boot dir on my new Puppy installation grub wouldn't be able to unpack and run the vmlinuz file (because it lives in /boot).

So I backed up the old menu.lst file in case of stuff-ups, ran the installer again, this time continuing thru the grubconfig sequence, and all ended well.

Thanks Dougal. I'm very grateful.

As a few people have mentioned, the choice between the 2 kinds of install -- option 1 and option 2 is somewhat harder to read than need be, though much, much better than previously. I'll look at it and see if I can't work out a simpler way to make that bit.

Hmmm... I just noticed an odd thing... Grub appears to misdiagnose my Puppy partition as ext2fs, when it is actually ext3fs. Doesn't seem to be a problem though. It boots fine.

Sit Heel Speak · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 2595 Location: downwind

Dougal · Posted: Thu 26 Apr 2007, 09:05 Post subject:

Here's an updated version of the find-frub script.

I think I might actuall give up the idea of searching for where Grub is installed and just look for the menu file... that way I can just search for the grub menu file and the Lilo menu file and use that to determine.

Bob9lvu: As I mentioned, Jesse managed to boot with the scsi drive... Maybe you encountered a problematic kernel module?

Gn2: I think maybe the simplest way will be to not care where grub/lilo is installed, but just find the config file and modify it. The different "naming scheme" (hd0) is simply derived from the order devices are listed by fdisk -l so I can just use that…

The only problem with the output of fdisk is the fact that it can't handle a "superfloppy"… it give "no valid partition table". But I've found a way to bypass that (if you get that -- try "file -Ls" on device to find it's fs).

Using /dev/dvd and /dev/cdrom is something I've started doing when I created an app that finds devices and adds links to your desktop -- for easy mounting. I figured users will find it easier to understand what "cdrom" and "dvd" (or "cdrom2" if it's just two cd-drives) refer to…

Miriam: thanks, I've replied in the other thread.
As for the dialogues… I'm trying my best, but haven't gone over all of them and there's always that very convoluted base (Barry's text) that I'm trying to stick to…

SHS: I have no idea why the /boot partition is only created after you are asked about installing grub -- maybe more incoherent text… I'll have a look at that.
I'm also not sure why Barry uses those strange shell scripts for doing part of the work (those scripts are **created** by the installer! Why not just have the code in the installer and use a dialog to communicate with the user?). Will look into that, too.

I have also replaced the use of /dev/dvd and /dev/cdrom with the actual devices and will hopefully have an updated version later today.

rerwin · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1317 Location: Maine, USA

Dougal,
Thanks for your response.

Gn2 · Posted: Thu 26 Apr 2007, 12:35 Post subject:

Please don't view this as denigrating the hard work/great results of contributors to Puppy community:
--------------------------------------------------------
It is up to user preferences how to use his own system -
But rc.local should NOT be used to mount devices !
That folder is for "customised" initiations > E.G. Vlan, wireless, Apps to directly enter

There seems to be growing trend to advise it's use as a "catch-all" remedy to correct buggy automated
BASIC system configurations.

Such habits may be fine for individual use (Tmp work-arounds) but IMO
not good practice for version releases to public

Use of "generic" device names is also inadvisable
Use of the correct BLOCK device obviates such as cd/dvd/sdo ad-nauseum
That is S.O.P for 'Nix > eliminates obfuscated symlinks !
BTW - also obviates HOW to create device nodes > how Udev & populates /proc folder or how E_IOCTL works

If a user later wishes to re-name devices to anything they think more suitable,
at least they KNOW how to edit names in fstab/loaders/directories

The majority of W/Mgrs parse those directories -create icons
IMNSHO > Icons are eye-candy, not a necessity - as such, the only remedy is to learn your own system -
all is "generic" Linux
Wizards that work hinder that learning process
Wizards that fail - increase the work load to underlying events
all that we eventually must face, else ever depend on others ?

Best regards to all (Esp to all the time/load -stressed prolific contributors such as Dougal)

rerwin · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1317 Location: Maine, USA

The incorrect CDROM and DVD device identifiers are obtained during the initial boot from CD, which, in 2.15CE, contains three leftover files that should not appear in the iso. They retain CD/DVD info across reboots, so Puppy thinks the values have already been determined for the current installation. The design, apparently, is for the files to be built when Puppy is first run on an installation, so must not exist at that time. This is the case in both 2.14 and 2.16.

The files are: /etc/cdromdevice, /dev/cdrom, and /dev/dvd. There also should be no /etc/dvddevice file; and there is none in 2.15.

It appears, to me, that the built version was run on before the iso was made, so picked up the devices used in the run -- hdb; that should be an unusual setup, so might suggest where the run was made.

I expect this to be of interest to WhoDo. The built release must not be run before cutting the iso -- a copy should be used for testing, not the set going to the iso. I wonder if there might be other instances where persisent data intended to be generated fresh for each installation got left in 2.15. Whoever ran the test might remember which functions were used and might be affected.

Anyway, I am glad there is no logic error. Build errors are to be expected as the release-build responsibility moves around.

Richard

Dougal

WhoDo

Dougal · Posted: Mon 30 Apr 2007, 15:29 Post subject:

Is anyone still following this thread??

I just updated the first post with a new version.

Updates:
1) Fixed the problem with cdrom detection Rerwin had.
2) (Hopefully) fixed the problem SHS had with the missing kernel after a full install.
3) Added auto-detection of existing Grub installation and option to add an entry to the boot menu.
4) Some other things, some of which I already forgot…

Note that when I add Grub entries, the kernel (and initrd.gz if it's a frugal install) is NOT copied just into /boot/ -- since there's probably one in there already -- but into /boot/puppy214/ (or whatever your version is).

Please try this out to make sure it works ok.

Lilo users: if anyone can give me an example of how a Puppy entry in the lilo.conf should look like (especially for a frugal install) then I can add that, too.

Someone asked here before for the option to install an older version of Puppy. I don't think it's worth encumbering the installer with this as it's not likely something most users will want and there's a very simple way of doing it:
Say you're running 2.14 and want to install 2.02.
Before you start the installer, open a terminal and run

sunburnt · Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 4004 Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

Dougal; I just posted for a WD-Seagate type of HD setup disk that can be redistributed.

A generic utility boot floppy or USB to partition & format ext2-3 & fat32.
Then the option to install an OS to any partition, & then install SysLinux or Grub.

I'm not sure what all your Puppy installer does, but it sounds close.
I messed with SlimLinux for this, but it doesn't have Xdialog, so no GUIs.
I'd really rather not reinvent the wheel just to get a basic boot utility tool kit.

rrolsbe · Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 178