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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
2.15CE doesn't show menu in IceWM, does in JWM
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 15:01    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
Sit Heel Speak wrote:
@Béèm: Perhaps his usb mouse is better than his ps/2 mouse, but he has only a single usb port and desires the ability to use the usb port for something else from time to time. A similar situation holds, on my older Thinkpad laptop.
No you mention it, on my Thinkpad the little red thing is active as well as the other one (forget always the name)
So regularly I find myself typing in another area all of a sudden, as I have touched the other one not knowing it.

I wish I could deactivate that one and leave only the red button active.

You mean the Touchpad? I can't help you, because my T21 doesn't have a Touchpad. I do unplug my cordless USB mouse and keep going with the Trackpoint (the little red thing) when I want to scan, print, or download pictures from my digital camera. Or at least, I did so earlier, before I bought a usb2 pcmcia adapter. Now, I have the usb stick which contains Puppy on one (pcmcia adapter) port (booted using the wkpup2x floppy) and the cordless mouse's receiver in the second port, so the T21's single rear usb1 port is always available whenever I need to plug in another device.

My guess is, MStar is using a similar arrangement.
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 16:13    Post subject:  

Sit Heel Speak wrote:
Béèm wrote:
...Imagine what happens if one turns to the right while the other turns to the left. Laughing

Actually, Boeing hereabouts uses special trucks for road transport of very long airplane parts, with one steering wheel in the cab and the second steering wheel in a little driver-compartment at the rear of the trailer, underslung, just forward of the rear tires. When going around a tight turn, the cab driver does indeed steer right while the trailer-driver steers left, so the trailer swings wide enough to miss the curb.
In that case they steer at different places.
Not like the mouse example, where the two mice try to steer at the same 'place' in the same time. Twisted Evil
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 16:20    Post subject:  

@Sit Heal Speak,
I really had a black-out, yes trackpoint and touchpad.

I looked around and asked the question here already quite some time ago if I could deactivate the touchpad, but I got no reply.

I didn't find if there are two separate drivers one for the trachpoint and one for the touchpad.
If there is, maybe I could unload the one for the trackpoint, but I am not knowledgeable enough to do that research.

I just live with it now.
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 17:50    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
I looked around and asked the question here already quite some time ago if I could deactivate the touchpad, but I got no reply...

Which Thinkpad do you have?

In /proc/bus/input there are two small textfiles, "devices" and "handlers"...

Open both in Geany (you may get a warning about read-only, just click OK). Paste the contents here, or PM them to me.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 21:32    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
I looked around and asked the question here already quite some time ago if I could deactivate the touchpad, but I got no reply.

My HP Compaq nc6220 laptop has THREE (3) pointing devices, and all are active by default; my USB mouse, my Synaptics Touch Pad mouse and my Trackpoint device with the little "joystick" in the middle of the keypad and two buttons at the base of the space bar.

The only way to deal with these is to disable them in the BIOS. My BIOS will only let me disable either of the Touch Pad or the Trackpoint, but not both. It says, stupidly, that I'll have no pointing device and won't let me do it. Don't they think people use external mouses on laptops?

Bottom line: Check your BIOS for an option to disable one or other of those devices. Me, I'm sticking with my USB mouse anyway, even though I occasionally hit the Trackpoint buttons while typing. *sigh*

Hope that helps

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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 22:10    Post subject:  

@WhoDo and
@Béèm:

Scroll down and examine the message of "Zigzagcom" at

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=76648

and see if that provides clues. Zigzagcom's way of sensing a mouse does work on Puppy, but I don't have a touchpad so can't test that part of it.

I do not know whether Béèm's English is up to the challenge of Zigzagcom's prose, so I thought I would just see if I could figure his situation out myself based on his /proc/bus/input files, but I guess you're both grown ...er, St. Bernard and ...um, ...Sirius B native? Wink
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Mstar

Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 22:44    Post subject:  

Wow, from Puppy to fire engines all on the same thread. What have I started here?<G>

The reason for two mice is a combination of lazy and necessary. I've tried a number of Puppy variants that would only work with the wired mouse until I could install the USB mouse after booting. Don't know why, but that's the way my machine works. I also have two keyboards attached for the same reason.

Yes, I play around with Puppy a lot. One of these days I'll actually figure out what I'm doing and maybe then I will be able to contribute something useful to the forum.

Oddly enough the USB keyboard is not a problem, only the mouse.

So, rather than plug/unplug when I try something new, I just leave both active. 2.15CE is the only version of Puppy -- or anything else -- that has seen this as a problem. Everything else just works right away, or works after I set it up.

Lobster,
No, I've run the Wizard several times. Not only does it not help, it does not remember the installation from boot to boot.

To reiterate, this is a full HD install, although the mouse issue also exists when run from CD using pfix=ram.

Thanks for all your help and comments.
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2007, 23:30    Post subject:  

Mstar wrote:
So, rather than plug/unplug when I try something new, I just leave both active. 2.15CE is the only version of Puppy -- or anything else -- that has seen this as a problem. Everything else just works right away, or works after I set it up.

I just booted both 2.14 (liveDVD, puppy pfix=ram) and 2.15CE (frugal install to usb stick) with both a ps2 mouse and a cordless usb mouse plugged in, together at the same time, and Puppy sees and responds to both mice just fine, including the main menu unrolling up from lower left as expected.

Let me try it your way...2.15CE liveDVD with a 2.15CE full hard drive install also present...hold on...
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2007, 00:06    Post subject:  

Sit Heel Speak wrote:
Scroll down and examine the message of "Zigzagcom" at

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=76648

and see if that provides clues. Zigzagcom's way of sensing a mouse does work on Puppy, but I don't have a touchpad so can't test that part of it.

Yep. I have tested the mouse sensing in Xorg the way the post suggests. My Synaptic Touch Pad is /dev/input/mouse0 and my Trackpoint device is /dev/input/mouse1. Interestingly there is no /dev/input/mouse2 and my USB mouse doesn't respond in either /dev/input/mouse0 or mouse1 but DOES respond in /dev/input/mice?

Theoretically I could disable the Trackpoint device in BIOS and then disable the Touch Pad using a specific call in the xorg.conf file; probably by selecting the Trackpoint device again. I'm just concerned that might also disable not only my Touch pad but also my USB mouse. I'll try it out on a test installation later.

Thanks, guys.

_________________
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Mstar

Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2007, 11:44    Post subject:  

Sit Heel Speak,

That's interesting. Are both 2.14 and 2.15CE using Icewm? On my machine the USB mouse works with JWM, but not with Icewm, so I think the problem must be somehow related to Icewm rather than the USB handlers. If I just change window managers without changing anything else then the mouse opens the menu properly.

BTW, I did not use a live DVD, just the iso burned to a CD, so there was no pupsave file created, which indicates the problem is there from the very beginning. Maybe this is a bug, albeit a very limited one.

Again, thanks for the help.
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2007, 12:21    Post subject:  

Mstar wrote:
Are both 2.14 and 2.15CE using Icewm?

No, 2.14 uses jwm. 2.15CE is the standard unmodified Final-2 version which uses icewm.

I have now tried 2.15CE from a live-DVD (same thing as a live-CD) using puppy pfix=ram (so it ignores pup_save's on the hard disks, same as a clean install) and both mice work fine. Tried it on a P3 tower with USB 1 ports, a P4 tower with USB 2 ports, and a P3 laptop with a single USB 1 port. No problems.

There will be some delay in me trying a full hd install of 2.15CE, as I'm taking a detour through helping Dougal to develop a new Puppy Universal Installer with hammer, tongs, and no mercy for a day or two or as long as it takes Dougal and critics to perfect the thing (***EDITED: well, that didn't take Dougal long...no hammer necessary at all...his new Puppy Universal Installer works great...no criticism from me forthcoming whatsoever...I am indeed impressed...I'm still having trouble with Barry's new grubconfig though...***).

Must be something unusual about your system, is my guess. I'm curious what is the brand of mouse, and are you simply plugging it into an ordinary usb2 port, or are you using a hub or pcmcia adapter or other such complication?

Also, what is your video adapter?

Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Mon 23 Apr 2007, 01:47; edited 1 time in total
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Mstar

Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2007, 14:56    Post subject:  

Sit Heel Speak,

By all means devote your time to something more useful to the community than helping with this peculiar problem of mine.

Here is the information on the machine:
Motherboard: ASUS P4P800MX
CPU: Intel P4 @ 3 gHz
RAM: 1 gb
Video: Onboard Intel 82865G
USB Mouse/Keyboard: Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 1000
PS2 Keyboard: And old IBM
PS2 Mouse: Gigabyte G-Max

The machine has six USB ports. The Mouse receiver is connected to one of the four primaries that appear to be hardwired to the motherboard. The only other USB device attached is a Logitech camera (Have not tried it under Puppy, but it works under Win2K).

Once again, thanks for your help.
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Mstar

Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2007, 15:20    Post subject:  

Here's some more information:

I just cold booted the HD install with the PS2 mouse and keyboard disconnected. The mouse was detected as "PS2" during boot, although the keyboard was detected as "USB". The USB mouse was not shown in the Wizard.

Behavior is exactly the same. I can only open the menu when a window is open on the desktop. If I minimize the window to the taskbar, the mouse does not open the menu, and I cannot re-open the window by clicking on the taskbar. I can only open a window from one of the icons on the pinboard.

Looks more and more like something in 2.15CE does not like my USB mouse, and it may not be Icewm after all. I say that because the mouse is mis-detected during bootup.

Anyway, it just gets curiousier and curiousier.
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2007, 01:38    Post subject:  

The video on my P4 is also onboard Intel 82865G.

Through Google, I see several user-reports of problems with that mouse and keyboard on Asus Athlon mainboards under Windows...perhaps one shouldn't be surprised if the very newest Microsoft hardware bollixes-up Linux (my cordless usb mouse is a vintage-2000 Logitech).

However, solving this issue might be a matter of simply identifying a suitable usb mouse (and maybe keyboard) Linux driver.

I'm curious: in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf, there are two sections titled

Section "InputDevice"

with entries for a mouse and for a keyboard. Can you paste those here?
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2007, 01:41    Post subject:  

And, same question, to WhoDo and Béèm?
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