My various attempts at making a PuppyUnleashed version which will run in my 128MB ram (max.) has involved prioritising the importance (to me) of different applications, and factoring this against their size.
Web browsers have been a problem. Dillo at 400K is great for its size, but I want something a bit more powerful.
Links Browser at 3MB doesn't seem that much better , and then there's a big jump up in size to Opera/Mozilla/Firefox.
But I stumbled upon an old version of Opera, version 5.05, which is significantly smaller than the current versions.
Since my PuppyUnleashed doesn't include the QT library I used the Opera version with static QT, which is 3MB for the installer, 8MB installed.
Puppy normally already has the QT library, so the Opera version with shared QT could probably be used. Its installer is just 1.5MB.
Opera 5.05 launches much more quickly than the larger browsers on my humble Pentium 300MMX laptop, and works for internet banking.
You need to add libpng.so.2 to Puppy for Opera 5.05 to work. A symlink to libpng.so.3 won't work.
These older versions can be downloaded from the Opera archive page - http://arc.opera.com/pub/opera/linux/
Maximum web browser, minimum size
-
tempestuous
- Posts: 5464
- Joined: Fri 10 Jun 2005, 05:12
- Location: Australia
-
Bruce B
Given your criteria it looks like you came up with a very good compromise. Thanks for the info.
Part of the problem I see is that Firefox and Mozilla also run slow on a machine of your processing power.
I thought I'd suggest an often overlooked option. Doesn't meet your criteria fully because of size.
Netscape v4.78 - v4.80 is fast. It is also big. Because of its size you would not want to preload the whole package into RAM.
However, it can be installed on the HD and run from there. It doesn't use all that much RAM to run.
Part of the problem I see is that Firefox and Mozilla also run slow on a machine of your processing power.
I thought I'd suggest an often overlooked option. Doesn't meet your criteria fully because of size.
Netscape v4.78 - v4.80 is fast. It is also big. Because of its size you would not want to preload the whole package into RAM.
However, it can be installed on the HD and run from there. It doesn't use all that much RAM to run.
Ok, know you said I couldnt sym link to libpng.so.3. Tried it and seemed to accept it. Then another symlink for qt. Then I get final error of /usr/bin/opera/5.05_tp1/opera-shared: undefined symbol: _12QPaintDevice.x_appdisplay
No idea what this means. Is it because of my symlinks. Did you get this error when trying a symlink?
I mean I can go find actual libpng.so.2 and even use static qt version of Opera if necessary, just wondered what it objected to.
Also I am trying to remember back to early Opera for linux days. I remember trying the beta. It was limited, but nice not to be tied to choice of a very early Konqueror or Netscape 4.79 or whatever it was. Dont know how Netscape would be under Puppy, but didnt much care for it under Mandrake 8.x I am trying your suggestion of Opera 5.05 as an alternative to Dillo-patched on my ancient laptop.
You are lucky if early Opera works at your bank. At least some banks now have rather sophisticated browser sniffers and go beyond just what the browser identifies itself as. Some will only accept IE no matter what. Some will also accept latest MOzilla/firefox but many refuse LATEST Opera for whatever reason. And in Europe I guess some banks sniff for operating system and refuse any but latest M$. Grrr.....
No idea what this means. Is it because of my symlinks. Did you get this error when trying a symlink?
I mean I can go find actual libpng.so.2 and even use static qt version of Opera if necessary, just wondered what it objected to.
Also I am trying to remember back to early Opera for linux days. I remember trying the beta. It was limited, but nice not to be tied to choice of a very early Konqueror or Netscape 4.79 or whatever it was. Dont know how Netscape would be under Puppy, but didnt much care for it under Mandrake 8.x I am trying your suggestion of Opera 5.05 as an alternative to Dillo-patched on my ancient laptop.
You are lucky if early Opera works at your bank. At least some banks now have rather sophisticated browser sniffers and go beyond just what the browser identifies itself as. Some will only accept IE no matter what. Some will also accept latest MOzilla/firefox but many refuse LATEST Opera for whatever reason. And in Europe I guess some banks sniff for operating system and refuse any but latest M$. Grrr.....
-
klhrevolutionist
- Posts: 1121
- Joined: Wed 08 Jun 2005, 10:09
here yea here yea
How does the security on that browser add up? Have you tested it at one of the many free
testing areas, to see if their are flaws in the old release that you have?
testing areas, to see if their are flaws in the old release that you have?
Heaven is on the way, until then let's get the truth out!
-
tempestuous
- Posts: 5464
- Joined: Fri 10 Jun 2005, 05:12
- Location: Australia
When I first symlinked to libpng.so.3 the gui appeared for a moment, then Opera crashed.
I have't tried the shared qt library version, so I don't know about qt issues. If you launch Opera from the command line, hopefully you will get some form of error message when things go wrong.
My bank's internet system officially supports IE and Netscape only. When you log on with anything else you get a warning prompt about having the wrong browser, but there's a "proceed anyway" option. I have tried other browsers as well, with both success and failure. I remember that Firefox running under Windows fails to display my banking details.
I will look into this browser's security status eventually.
I'm running Puppy on a laptop with a wireless adaptor, and my attitude towards internet security is to remain disconnected whenever online access is not needed.
I have't tried the shared qt library version, so I don't know about qt issues. If you launch Opera from the command line, hopefully you will get some form of error message when things go wrong.
My bank's internet system officially supports IE and Netscape only. When you log on with anything else you get a warning prompt about having the wrong browser, but there's a "proceed anyway" option. I have tried other browsers as well, with both success and failure. I remember that Firefox running under Windows fails to display my banking details.
I will look into this browser's security status eventually.
I'm running Puppy on a laptop with a wireless adaptor, and my attitude towards internet security is to remain disconnected whenever online access is not needed.
Somehow doubt average evildoer is wasting time lurking about looking for somebody trying to use Dillo or Opera5.05 to do something secure.
Ok, thanks for reply, my guess from your reply is that error I am experiencing is from some QT compatibility problem. Easiest just to get the static version of Opera and be done with it.
And if Barry doesnt release his KDE version soon, I am going to have a go at getting Konqueror on Puppy going myself. KDE is a bloated mess, but Konqueror I think may load and run faster than the Mozilla browsers or bloated modern Opera. As I mentioned on the KDE thread, I once got Knoppix to boot on an old 75mhz (40mb ram) computer using cheat code for blackbox since KDE desktop obviously couldnt run. However Konqueror loaded and surfed remarkably well considering the system. Mozilla couldnt even load.
Ok, thanks for reply, my guess from your reply is that error I am experiencing is from some QT compatibility problem. Easiest just to get the static version of Opera and be done with it.
And if Barry doesnt release his KDE version soon, I am going to have a go at getting Konqueror on Puppy going myself. KDE is a bloated mess, but Konqueror I think may load and run faster than the Mozilla browsers or bloated modern Opera. As I mentioned on the KDE thread, I once got Knoppix to boot on an old 75mhz (40mb ram) computer using cheat code for blackbox since KDE desktop obviously couldnt run. However Konqueror loaded and surfed remarkably well considering the system. Mozilla couldnt even load.
Ok, symlink to libpng.so.3 gives segmentation fault since Opera505 was compiled on a system with libpng.so.2. Added real libpng.so.2 and it works ok.
For sure it loads fast out of the chute even on my old laptop. Maybe loads just hair slower than Dillo but not objectionable at all. Not near as fast to surf with as Dillo-patched. About like Firefox or even touch slower.
And it has that big honkin ad space unlike modern opera with text ad option. It is useable but imagine it has some quirks that have been resolved in later Opera versions. Seems stable though.
Havent messed with it on secure sites yet.
For sure it loads fast out of the chute even on my old laptop. Maybe loads just hair slower than Dillo but not objectionable at all. Not near as fast to surf with as Dillo-patched. About like Firefox or even touch slower.
And it has that big honkin ad space unlike modern opera with text ad option. It is useable but imagine it has some quirks that have been resolved in later Opera versions. Seems stable though.
Havent messed with it on secure sites yet.
-
tempestuous
- Posts: 5464
- Joined: Fri 10 Jun 2005, 05:12
- Location: Australia
Thanks for the other suggestions ...
re Phoenix 0.5, I just downloaded and installed it. 10 seconds to launch, not bad, but 22 MB in size.
Opera 5.05 takes only 5 seconds to launch.
Someone on the forums mentioned early Konqueror as a lightweight browser. I have Konqeror 3.2.2 in a Debian installation on one of my partitions. It takes a full 18 seconds to launch, longer than Firefox at 16 seconds, and Opera 8.02 at 15 seconds.
re Phoenix 0.5, I just downloaded and installed it. 10 seconds to launch, not bad, but 22 MB in size.
Opera 5.05 takes only 5 seconds to launch.
Someone on the forums mentioned early Konqueror as a lightweight browser. I have Konqeror 3.2.2 in a Debian installation on one of my partitions. It takes a full 18 seconds to launch, longer than Firefox at 16 seconds, and Opera 8.02 at 15 seconds.
I must be missing something. I am running a pII 366 mobile and firefox 1.0.5 opens from my harddrive install in 5 to 8 seconds. I have also run some side by side speed tests with mozilla and firefox always runs the fastest.
Firefox
Loaded 754,928 bytes in 2.096 seconds from Host Rocket server. 2881k/sec
Dillo
Loaded 754,928 bytes in 2.912 seconds from Host Rocket server. 2074k/sec
Mozilla
Loaded 754,928 bytes in 2.921 seconds from Host Rocket server. 2068k/sec
I know there are size issues but I have found the fox runs consistantly faster on most machines and works on most sites, (Those that don't need to install things automatically into ie and winows).
I have an older version of Puppy, 1.0.1.firefox that is still my favorite live cd. It is soooooooooo fast on my main machine it just laughable. Don't blink or you might miss something.
Firefox
Loaded 754,928 bytes in 2.096 seconds from Host Rocket server. 2881k/sec
Dillo
Loaded 754,928 bytes in 2.912 seconds from Host Rocket server. 2074k/sec
Mozilla
Loaded 754,928 bytes in 2.921 seconds from Host Rocket server. 2068k/sec
I know there are size issues but I have found the fox runs consistantly faster on most machines and works on most sites, (Those that don't need to install things automatically into ie and winows).
I have an older version of Puppy, 1.0.1.firefox that is still my favorite live cd. It is soooooooooo fast on my main machine it just laughable. Don't blink or you might miss something.
Puppy Linux...
It just works!
It just works!
I dont have it timed to the second, but Firefox on my pII 366 desktop with 256mb ram and hardrive install must take 20 to 30 seconds to load. Long enough to be kinda annoying. Dillo-patched is near instantaneous. Opera 8.0 is around 10 to 15sec. Opera 5.05 on my old P1 laptop is very close to instantaneous like Dillo. Links2 about same as Dillo.
Now as far as surfing once loaded, Dillo patched is much faster on some sites like ebay. Other sites like Puppy forum, not much noticable difference over Firefox. Links2 is about same as Dillo. I've been playing with "light" that used to be included with Puppy. Its just hair behind Dillo and Links2 but faster than Firefox on slow sites. Not really fair to compare Konqueror on another distribution. I've played a bit trying to copy it from another distribution to Puppy but run into dcop server error which is royal pain to figure out. Really needs to be compiled on/for Puppy I think. I still hope Kwazy Pup will get out of dog house soon and save me from reinventing the wheel. I figure Konqueror on Pup with old hardware wouldnt be any speed demon to load, but might be a surpise as far` as surfing slower sites. Then again it might not be any faster than fiefox.
Now as far as surfing once loaded, Dillo patched is much faster on some sites like ebay. Other sites like Puppy forum, not much noticable difference over Firefox. Links2 is about same as Dillo. I've been playing with "light" that used to be included with Puppy. Its just hair behind Dillo and Links2 but faster than Firefox on slow sites. Not really fair to compare Konqueror on another distribution. I've played a bit trying to copy it from another distribution to Puppy but run into dcop server error which is royal pain to figure out. Really needs to be compiled on/for Puppy I think. I still hope Kwazy Pup will get out of dog house soon and save me from reinventing the wheel. I figure Konqueror on Pup with old hardware wouldnt be any speed demon to load, but might be a surpise as far` as surfing slower sites. Then again it might not be any faster than fiefox.
I have tried Konqueror on slax live cd and it is terribly slow compared to the others. I haven't tried Opera. I just love the options I have available with Firefox. I would think it could be slimmed down as easily as added to if one were to do some searching.
I have heard that netraider is a nice little browser but I think it requires kde2 or something. I also seem to remember Galeon? I think it was a debian based browser and if I remember correctly it was very fast. The only other one I can think of is based on either netscape or mozilla. Epiphany loads really fast and has a minimal interface. Has settings to enable / disable java, cookies, history etc. Might be worth a look.
I have heard that netraider is a nice little browser but I think it requires kde2 or something. I also seem to remember Galeon? I think it was a debian based browser and if I remember correctly it was very fast. The only other one I can think of is based on either netscape or mozilla. Epiphany loads really fast and has a minimal interface. Has settings to enable / disable java, cookies, history etc. Might be worth a look.
Puppy Linux...
It just works!
It just works!
Ok, Galleon used to be a favorite back on Mandrake 8.x. However modern version not only requires the Gnome libraries, but also complete install of Mozilla and the version of Galleon must match the version of Mozilla.
Just for the heck of it, booted last version of Knoppix that I have using cheat code for icewm (actually like icewm more than I remembered and may try it on Puppy). Then brought up Konqueror 3.2.2. Took around 40sec to load (yuck) and complained since I started it without KDE running. Surfing speed is ok, sure not a match for Dillo patched, but little faster/smoother on slow sites with my hardware than Firefox or Opera. I think I would like Opera a lot better if it didnt insist on loading all of webpage before showing me anything. Konqueror lets me see parts of webpage before finishing loading and also doesnt have that noticable lag that Firefox seems to have on slow sites. Still not fair to compare Konq on Knoppix and expect it to act exactly same on Puppy. Puppy being smaller, should make it even a bit more responsive but wont know until I can try it.
I'll also say I really like the availability of extensions to customize Firefox, but speed makes up for niceties. I also need to try installing BeOS again which I used before finding Puppy couple years ago. Just seems like Firefox and Mozilla (I like Mozilla better on BeOS) loaded and surfed faster and smoother, but may just be faulty memory on my part. BeOS is simular size to Puppy, but patched up the wahzoo since it is literally from the era of win95.
Just for the heck of it, booted last version of Knoppix that I have using cheat code for icewm (actually like icewm more than I remembered and may try it on Puppy). Then brought up Konqueror 3.2.2. Took around 40sec to load (yuck) and complained since I started it without KDE running. Surfing speed is ok, sure not a match for Dillo patched, but little faster/smoother on slow sites with my hardware than Firefox or Opera. I think I would like Opera a lot better if it didnt insist on loading all of webpage before showing me anything. Konqueror lets me see parts of webpage before finishing loading and also doesnt have that noticable lag that Firefox seems to have on slow sites. Still not fair to compare Konq on Knoppix and expect it to act exactly same on Puppy. Puppy being smaller, should make it even a bit more responsive but wont know until I can try it.
I'll also say I really like the availability of extensions to customize Firefox, but speed makes up for niceties. I also need to try installing BeOS again which I used before finding Puppy couple years ago. Just seems like Firefox and Mozilla (I like Mozilla better on BeOS) loaded and surfed faster and smoother, but may just be faulty memory on my part. BeOS is simular size to Puppy, but patched up the wahzoo since it is literally from the era of win95.
Hmm, thats intersting. Killed terminal that I started Konq from and of course shut down Konq. Brought up new terminal and typed Konqueror and it loaded in like 5 seconds with no complaining. That 40 sec load must have started parts of KDE in background or some other garbage that it thought it needed and whatever it was still running after I shut Konq down. Or it had to load something off Knoppix cd the first time.
Are you sure you have the correct voltage on your power supply for that machine? If the voltage is low it may think that it is running on battery and go to low power mode, I think mine runs about 133mhz on battery.
First time you open a program it must pull it from the drive. Can you tell if the drive is idle and how long it takes before it spins up? I am guessing that the slow speed when opening apps is caused by a power saving measure. The only other reason I can think that the machine would be running slow is that it may be overheating.
You may be able to find some benchmark software to let you know just how fast your machine is actually running. I think there are some good ones for linux, just don't know where. I have a HP laptop with a terrible drive in it that clicks all the time. Even at 600mhz it is painfully slow whenever it needs to read or write to the hard drive.
First time you open a program it must pull it from the drive. Can you tell if the drive is idle and how long it takes before it spins up? I am guessing that the slow speed when opening apps is caused by a power saving measure. The only other reason I can think that the machine would be running slow is that it may be overheating.
You may be able to find some benchmark software to let you know just how fast your machine is actually running. I think there are some good ones for linux, just don't know where. I have a HP laptop with a terrible drive in it that clicks all the time. Even at 600mhz it is painfully slow whenever it needs to read or write to the hard drive.
Puppy Linux...
It just works!
It just works!