BusterDog + build system (no-systemd)

[Payoon]

Hi Fred,
thanks for this one. After the great stretch-dog I was hoping for buster-dog. And here it is.
I have only one suggestion.
In the beginning boot always interrupted with the message

can't connect to x-server

but didn't know how to allocate it. It took me a while until I found that I had to copy the firmware module into the base directory. Maybe somewhere in the thread or during boot sequence a hint for the unexperienced could help. Everything else works great.

[darry19662018]

Hi fred,

Working well on this machine so far. Thanks for this effort. Having sysvinit with Buster is a great effort. Video and internet working well.

[fredx181]

@keniv

I've seen posts about systemd suggesting it's a bad thing but I don't know why. Can you explain, in simple terms, why it is thought to be a good idea not to use systemd.

There are different opinions about systemd, I don't see it particularly as bad.
And the fact that it's widely used (in many Linux distros) proves that it works and it seems to me that many devs and users do prefer it.

Most of my motivation to make a systemd-free OS is:
- There should be choice to use systemd or not (standard Debian buster doesn't give that choice really)
(that said, I should mention that it's difficult to install systemd on Busterdog, it's possible but need to do some tricks)
- I personally don't like the complexity of systemd (also it is much more than an init system, leading to unexpected things, taking control where I don't want it), the sysvinit init system is much more simple (and therefore fits better in the Puppy tradition IMO)

@Payoon

I have only one suggestion.
In the beginning boot always interrupted with the message
Quote:
can't connect to x-server
but didn't know how to allocate it. It took me a while until I found that I had to copy the firmware module into the base directory. Maybe somewhere in the thread or during boot sequence a hint for the unexperienced could help

Thanks for mentioning, do you have any idea which firmware seems to be missing for you to connect to x-server ?

@darry, thanks for testing !

Fred

[Payoon]

Hi Fred,

the only thing that comes to my mind is my AMD Radeon R5 Graphics Card.

I will try to find out by "delete and error method", but that may take a while.
Thanks again. Great stuff.

Payoon

[fredx181]

How to install systemd on BusterDog:

For those who prefer booting with systemd, here's how (a bit of a workaround)
First make sure to Exit X ! Menu > Logout > Exit X
Then from the console type ("apt update" may not be needed if you recently updated the package lists):

Code: Select all

apt update
apt install udev systemd-sysv libpam-systemd 

Reboot with changes saved and systemd will be the init system.
(automatic login doesn't work then, btw).

Fred

[Terry H]

Hi Fred,

Haven't used a Dog for a little while so I just did a new frugal install of BusterDog. Manual frugal install on Kingston DataTraveller 8GB USB, using Porteus boot method.

Setup wifi and time zone, all working well after reboot and save changes. I haven't used tint2 panel very much in the past, so am trying to famiiarise myself with using it. The bottom panel is straight forward, but the top panel is taking some time to work out.

This is another excellent Dog, Thanks Fred for your continued contribution.

[dancytron]

Hi Fred,

Haven't used a Dog for a little while so I just did a new frugal install of BusterDog. Manual frugal install on Kingston DataTraveller 8GB USB, using Porteus boot method.

Setup wifi and time zone, all working well after reboot and save changes. I haven't used tint2 panel very much in the past, so am trying to famiiarise myself with using it. The bottom panel is straight forward, but the top panel is taking some time to work out.

This is another excellent Dog, Thanks Fred for your continued contribution.

In the desktop manager you can choose the other Openbox choice that just uses the bottom panel (IIRC the one from lxde) with nothing on the top and regular icons on the desktop. That's the one I like to use.

[Terry H]

Hi Fred,

Haven't used a Dog for a little while so I just did a new frugal install of BusterDog. Manual frugal install on Kingston DataTraveller 8GB USB, using Porteus boot method.

Setup wifi and time zone, all working well after reboot and save changes. I haven't used tint2 panel very much in the past, so am trying to famiiarise myself with using it. The bottom panel is straight forward, but the top panel is taking some time to work out.

This is another excellent Dog, Thanks Fred for your continued contribution.

In the desktop manager you can choose the other Openbox choice that just uses the bottom panel (IIRC the one from lxde) with nothing on the top and regular icons on the desktop. That's the one I like to use.

Thanks for the response. Yes, I have checked the Menu > Settings > Desktop Manager which gives the 3 options for setting Desktop. I'm very familiar with lxpanel. I am trying to use tint2, as a learning opportunity, as any times I previously tried I gave up very quickly, I thought I 'd try and stick with tint2 for the moment.

[keniv]

Hi Fred,
Thanks for your explanation of the systemd issue. Now had a little time to do some testing and have some things to report.

See info and links about possible Palemoon issues (on some machines with Intel graphics)

I don't seem to have any issues in this respect with busterdog so all to the good. However, I have had a problem with resizing the savefile (changes.dat) which I put in 'live'. I initially made it 1GB. I then decided to install arduino. I did this via synaptic. It was to take up a bit over 400MB so I thought I would make the save file 500MB larger. The process seemed to work OK. The only thing I noticed that might be relevant was that adding the extra 500MB seemed to take very little time. When installing arduino I started to see errors about there being no room as well as an on screen box telling me I had less than 30MB of space left. I attempted to cancel the install. I then had trouble shutting down. I had to use ctrl-alt-backspace then power off. Using another puppy I checked the size of changes.dat and it showed as 1500MB. However, I am sure it was not. I removed changes.dat and started again but got errors with synaptic so I decided on a complete new install. I seemed to remeber reading that it was not a good idea to try to expand the savefile so this time I started with a 2GB savefile. I was able to install arduino and I also installed abiword without problems. I am sure I increased the size of devuandogs savefile without these problems. I have also noticed that when clicking on the menu icon to bring up the menu it seems to appear much more slowly than it did with devuandog. These might just be problems peculiar to me but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had these problems.

Regards,

Ken.

[oui]

Hi ally

mirrored here: http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_BusterDog_32Bit

and here: http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_BusterDog_64bit

I am not shure if they are

puppy_linux_somewhat



dog's are until yet friendly OS's but NOT Puppy Linux

[fredx181]

Hi Ken,

I don't seem to have any issues in this respect with busterdog so all to the good. However, I have had a problem with resizing the savefile (changes.dat) which I put in 'live'. I initially made it 1GB. I then decided to install arduino. I did this via synaptic. It was to take up a bit over 400MB so I thought I would make the save file 500MB larger. The process seemed to work OK. The only thing I noticed that might be relevant was that adding the extra 500MB seemed to take very little time. When installing arduino I started to see errors about there being no room as well as an on screen box telling me I had less than 30MB of space left. I attempted to cancel the install. I then had trouble shutting down. I had to use ctrl-alt-backspace then power off. Using another puppy I checked the size of changes.dat and it showed as 1500MB. However, I am sure it was not. I removed changes.dat and started again but got errors with synaptic so I decided on a complete new install. I seemed to remeber reading that it was not a good idea to try to expand the savefile so this time I started with a 2GB savefile. I was able to install arduino and I also installed abiword without problems. I am sure I increased the size of devuandogs savefile without these problems. I have also noticed that when clicking on the menu icon to bring up the menu it seems to appear much more slowly than it did with devuandog. These might just be problems peculiar to me but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had these problems.

Was the savefile in use (mounted) by the system ? Actually the text from the resize program is wrong, "recommended to use unmounted savefile" should be "not possible to resize mounted savefile", I will change that soon. I tested resizing unmounted savefile and it went well.
That it showed as 1500MB but in reality 500MB is a sign of failed resizing and you did good by deleting it.
Can't you use savefolder ? Much more convenient.
Yes the menu has a small delay on 32-bit version, a bit annoying indeed (on 64 bit version it's ok), will try to fix in next ISO.

Fred

[backi]

Hi keniv !
You wanted to install arduino ?
no need for this to install .
Do you know how to use Apps as squashfs files (load/unload)....(for example vlc.squashfs ) .Keeps apps outside of the Save this way....and keeps save File/Folder small .
Somewhere in (i think Menu>Modules(or Accessories) >look for AptToSfs ...,.
Start it...... choose a Partition or Place where to store your resulting arduino.squashfs
.....and type in arduino .......wait ...choose Type of compression and ....simsalabim....if everything went fine ....you get your arduino.squashfs....
proceed as usual .
Just start it on Demand ...or put it in the live Folder to activate it automatically on Boot ...somehow Puppy Style....no need to install .
So most of my Applications are not installed .......use them only on Demand via squashfs Files .
I like that modular Style .

AptToSfs is a real Gem... mostly overlooked.......i love it ......Thank you Fred !

Regards !

[backi]

Hi keniv !
B.T.W ......dont know on which Type of Partition you Installed this Dog .
And which Type of boot Option (menu.lst)
Please report .
Think it is better to use a boot Option with changes Folder instead of a changes.dat because it automatically fits to your Savings and more people are using it.So a better Chance to get Help .
But there are some Type of Partitions you can only use a changes.dat File .
Probably ntfs and/or Fat Partitions ???.....not sure .....never used it.

[Sebi72]

Hi Fred!
I'm running BusterDog on an Elitebook 8560p laptop.
Audio: Card-1: Intel 6 Series / C200 Series Family High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-6-amd64
If I start dogradio or yradio, the sound system will crash.
But if I run a youtube video in my browser before then everything is fine.
The start menu is slower on 64-bit systems than on DevuanDog.
Otherwise, congratulations on the super little distro.
Sorry for the bad English.

[mikeslr]

Hi Sebi72,

Welcome to the Kennels.

Never apologize for not be a Native English Speaker. It's a 'back-handed' way of reminding us who are only monolingual of that limitation.

By the way, your English is great.

[cthisbear]

fredx181:

A few years ago the Puppy forum was getting a little silent.
And then all these variants started to happen.
Like Pussy Linux...always made me smile that one by sickgut.

Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69475

https://pussy-linux.weebly.com/

I think sickgut had issues and sadly left us and then a surge of
distros came our way. Not Pups but they had a Puppy look and feel.

I don't always understand them.
I didn't always download them.

But I thank you and all the others for their efforts and keeping the
Murga Forum a happy place to sit.

Cheers....Chris.
Don't tell me mum I've been nice.

[keniv]

Hi Fred,

Was the savefile in use (mounted) by the system ?

Well I think it would be as during boot up I see something like,

Code: Select all

mnt/sda1/31119busterdog/live/changes.dat

and at the end of the boot up process all the changes I have made in setting it up to suit me plus the things I have installed are all there. I have never tried to unmount it. Do I use the mount/unmount tool to do this? I will try resizing an unmounted savefile and see if it works that way. By the way is it possible in the dogs to have two savefiles and choose which to use on booting up in the same way as in the pups. If so this would let me experiment with one while keeping my 2GB working version in tact.

Can't you use savefolder ?

I have only tried this once and it did not succeed. However, it was with lucid5287 and I'm now not sure if it is in fact possible to do it with the lucid pups. The result is I have no experience of doing this.
Thanks for the info on the menu delay. I'm glad it's not just me.

Hi backi

dont know on which Type of Partition you Installed this Dog .

I have a copy of XP and an installed copy of Ubuntu Mate on this machine. XP plus two dogs and some pups are on one of two drives. It's formatted as ntfs and the pups and dogs are frugal installs. Ubuntu is on the second drive formatted as ext3. I use grub2 from Ubuntu to boot all these.

Do you know how to use Apps

I have never used an app on linux as I thought they were mainly for 64bit and I only have 32bit. I have loaded and unloaded sfs files on the pups. I do it with wine.

Do you know how to use Apps as squashfs files..............look for AptToSfs ...,.

No I've never tried this but it would be worth a try as arduino is quite a big thing at over 400MB. Is there an advantage in keeping it out of the savefile?
Hope I've covered everything.

Regards,

Ken.

[mikeslr]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But I think you're doing it right. ".dat" can only be used on Fat32 and ntfs formatted partitions. Your Windows partition is one or the other, probably ntfs. Folders can only be used on Linux formatted partitions. Your Ubuntu Mate is on one. If you wanted, you could locate 'dogs' and 'puppies' there. Mate won't mind. In fact, Mate being mindless won't even know.

[keniv]

Hi mikeslr,
The two drives are respectively 40 and 20MB. The best one is the 40MB and is the one formatted as ntfs. I still need XP as I have a couple of ESP32+CAM modules. I use Arduino to send code to them. The addon files to do this are not available for the linux version of Arduino so I have to use the Win version. I like having the pups and dogs as frugal installs and it can be useful to have some extra space formatted as ext3. I rather not do a full install on this drive if I can avoid it.

Regards,

Ken.

[mikeslr]

Hi keniv,

It's been a while since I ran a 'debian dog'. I keep meaning to set one up. But as cthisbear mentioned, the Devs have been rather active. Lots of new OSes to explore. And then there's the real world to contend with. Beyond that, I don't trust that my memory is entirely accurate about details. Hopefully, backi, who brought the subject up, will reappear to provide some guidance. After all, "No good deed should go unpunished." Or someone else.

About Apps being only for 64-bit Oses, I think you're referring to AppImages, most of which are. But what backi was referring to is the tool, Apt2SFS --I think built into all 'debian dogs'-- which creates a squashfile --the 'dogs' version of what in Puppies would be called an SFS*, Squash File System. As you know, application SFSes can be loaded and unloaded on the fly.

Saintless and fred developed the Apt2SFS tool some time ago. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 224#773224. I don't recall if there have been any revisions to the instructions provided by that post. My recollection is that once the squashfile is created you can place it anywhere, browse to it and load and unload it 'on-the-fly'. There's a folder --whose name I've forgotten-- within a 'debian dogs' main folder. If placed there, my recollection is that it will be automatically loaded on bootup.

However, I'm not sure if an ntfs partition can serve as the location for building a Squashfile. That may require a Linux partition --you might be able to mount, then specify 'Ubuntu Mate's'-- or have to build it in RAM.

Lest it be forgotten, you asked about creating a 2nd .dat file so that you can experiment without loosing your functional one. That should be possible. But, I don't recall if the same technique for Puppies can be used:

(1) Boot pfix=ram** > so as not to load your .dat file.
(2) Move (or maybe rename by changing the ending of) your current .dat file; e.g. xxx.bak or xxx.dat1.
(3) Shut down to create a new .dat.

Of whether if you don't do (2) you'll be offered a choice during bootup of which .dat to use.
-------
* FYI, the last time I ran a 'debian dog', I was able to use several SFSes built for Puppies just by changing their 'endings'; i.e. APPLICATIONS.sfs to APPLICATION.squashfs, Or maybe I ran them "as is". As I said, it's been a while.

**You should be able to boot "pfix=ram" by editing your menu.lst and rebooting.