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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Update needed on the Puppy Universal Installer!!!!
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12982
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug 2019, 08:59    Post subject:  Update needed on the Puppy Universal Installer!!!!
Subject description: It has no support for UEFI bios
 

Is anyone still watching this program for errors, problems, needed code changes, etc.....?

I ask, because the Universal Installer will not work with the new computers using UEFI bios.
Recently, someone posted they tried to do an install, to the internal hard drive, using the Universal Installer.
It refused to do the install. A message said it is not able to do installs to a computer with UEFI bios.

Someone that knows how to code, needs to make some changes or Puppy needs to stop using this installer.

I posted about this at Woof CE.
About all that got done is confirmation that it has issues with UEFI.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/issues/1352

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5646
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 30 Aug 2019, 06:34    Post subject:  

@ bigpup:-

Obviously, anyone at all familiar with Pup's 'ins-and-outs' knows exactly how to work around this; the use of a 'quick'n'dirty' frugal install, turning off the necessary FastBoot/SecureBoot stuff, which other bits to add to the mix, etc.

However, the whole point of the Universal Installer (or other substitute) should be that any complete beginner can boot into a LiveCD, then simply use it to install Puppy to any current hardware. As you say, this is where the current offering falls flat on its face.....and the initial impression given to any potential new user is that Pup is very sloppily put together by a bunch of amateurs. Rolling Eyes

Which we know is far from being the case.....

I have to agree with you on this point. I've been thinking the same thing in recent months, after reading certain threads.


Mike. Wink

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 30 Aug 2019, 10:28    Post subject:  

Are there other ways to install Puppy to a hard disk?
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2199

PostPosted: Fri 30 Aug 2019, 11:07    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Are there other ways to install Puppy to a hard disk?


uefi-installer.pet (post)

P.S. I haven't tried this pet.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12982
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 30 Aug 2019, 15:30    Post subject:  

Please do not turn this into a listing of other installers that could be used.

This is about making the Puppy Universal Installer usable.

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 30 Aug 2019, 18:21    Post subject:  

Sorry. Embarassed
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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 454
Location: Melbourne, FL

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug 2019, 10:18    Post subject:  

Only in the last few months have I paid any attention to installing Puppy Linux
on a UEFI system. But as they say, the future is here, and I don't think we'll
be reverting back to FAT anytime soon.

I have enough trouble doing a manual install to a UEFI system, not to mention
automating the process. But I wouldn't mind looking at the Universal Installer
source code if I could find it. I assume there's some GitHub somewhere that is
accessable. By the way, I don't think of myself as a coder as much as a hacker.
I'm probably stepping into a rabbit hole that will have much adventure.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3543
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug 2019, 11:27    Post subject:  

Hi Crash,

Can't help you finding the Universal Installer on GitHub. But you'll find its code in /usr/sbin under the name dotpup --probably has the same name on GitHub. That name, itself, suggests how long it's been around. Opening it in a text editor immediately reveals that it was written in 2007 and its last acknowledged revision was in December 2013.

Frankly, it should be replaced or supplemented in woof with something which actually works under computers loading via either bios or UEFI. There are several possible alternatives. But just replacing it wouldn't solve the problem of the zillion or so Puppy ISOs floating around which will lack that replacement/supplement. Consequently, there would still be a need for a pet which could be installed into already published ISOs.

Bash has been updated several times since 2013. Unless the revision/supplement uses fully backward compatible code, more than one version of the proposed pet would be necessary.

The project is certain to be an exciting adventure. That, after all, is what makes life interesting Laughing Except at times when trying to form a coherent thought is like swimming thru mud. Then I recall the Chinese adage, "Let my enemies live in interesting times." Rolling Eyes
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12982
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 31 Aug 2019, 15:09    Post subject:  

I do not think you will find any of this on Github except maybe in Woof CE.
This was originally coded by Barry K in the very early days of Puppy Linux development.

Quote:
/usr/sbin under the name dotpup

That is the start of it, but there are other programs that actually do the work.
/usr/sbin/puppyinstaller is the main one.

The big problem is putting something into the install that will allow booting from a normal setup UEFI bios.
(secure boot enabled and not in legacy mode)
A boot loader that can boot on a UEFI bios and boot Puppy.
Grub2 is a boot loader that can do it.

I DID NOT WANT TO DO THIS (sorry flash)!, but I guess it will help to figure out some code changes.
So here I go, doing something I said do not do!

This installer does a very good job of working with any type bios. (old style bios and UEFI)
FrugalPup
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=114340
It uses grub2-efi for uefi booting and grub4dos for mbr/legacy booting.

Hope this will help you in figuring out some code you could use.

Again, sorry flash Embarassed Exclamation Smile Smile

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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 454
Location: Melbourne, FL

PostPosted: Sun 01 Sep 2019, 12:43    Post subject:  

Oh, I didn't realize the Universal Installer was already hiding away in the distro as script files. That makes it easy to look at.

I haven't actually used the Universal Installer much, since I usually do a "manual" installation. I tried it out on an SD card I
have laying around that already has FreeDOS/GRUB4DOS/Puppy Slacko 5.7 on it. The Universal Installer kept Slacko intact,
but replaced the FREEDOS boot record with isolinux. That's OK, but I would think the end product should be more based on
Grub2 which is "new" - a mere seven years old. In Beta still, I'm sure.

There's been a ton of really good work over the years in terms of support for newcomers to be able to install Puppy Linux.
It would be great to leverage this work and incorporate it into the Universal Installer.

Regarding amateurs vs. professionals: I think the mix is one of the strengths of the Puppy Linux community. There has been
wonderful contribution over the years from experts whose work is essential, but the work is also influenced by the every day
person, giving a very well rounded overall personality to Puppy Linux. I've tried numerous other versions of Linux over the
years, and I keep coming back to Puppy Linux. In my opinion, nothing comes close to it.

Anyway, don't expect anything real soon from me. I like to experiment a lot before I really commit to anything. In this case,
there is a great Discovery process that needs to take place first. It's something that can keep me occupied while I wait for this
hurricane to blow through town.

// Edited Friday the 13th (!)

Hurricane Dorian spared the entire east coast of Florida, for which I am grateful. My heart goes out to the people in the Bahamas, who suffered greatly from the storm.

Looking at the code in Bionic Pup's puppyinstaller program, it would be very easy to branch to a completely different path if UEFI is discovered:

Code:
if [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] ; then
   /usr/lib/gtkdialog/box_yesno --ok-cancel --no-first --yes-label Continue --no-label Close --warning "Puppy Installer" "UEFI is not supported. This is only useful if you want to install to a drive that will not be booted on this machine.."
   [ $? -ne 0 ] && exit
fi


The if/then can simply be modified to branch to a new set of code to address the efi (uefi) case. Piece of cake, said Marie Antoinette.

I'll do another post when I have verified that this is a good approach.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12982
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 25 Sep 2019, 20:06    Post subject:  

Any update on this?

Anyone???

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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Thu 26 Sep 2019, 09:16    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Any update on this?

Anyone???


I'm reading this.
I thought carefully about it and realized I can't offer a lot of help because my system isn't UEFI and mostly I use VirtualBox as my testing tool.

I do have 2 suggestions:

1) Make your dialog boxes fit on a 600x400 screen so we can work with down market systems. There were many things on puppy-528 that were too tall.

2) Use a step by step method where this is never more than perhaps 2 questions being answered.
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