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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.5 (made via a woof-next fork)
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2019, 14:04    Post subject:  tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.5 (made via a woof-next fork)
Subject description: experimental - Lastest Release 27 Aug 19
 

==================================

Update (27 Aug 19 - new version)
s243a wrote:
Here's a new version.
tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.5.iso

The only testing that I did was installing firefox-esr

Code:

/usr/local/petget/0setup
pkg --get firefox-esr
pkg --get libavcodec-extra57


In this release I made some changes to sc0tmann's package manager (i.e. pkg). See post:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1035370#1035370

I'm fairly postive that these changes have resulted in a significant speed improvement in installing packages. I was hoping that it would fix an issue related to libstdc++ being re-installed [1] when I install firefox. Unfortunatly this isn't the case.

Notes
--------------------
1. it isn't exactly the case that libstdc++ is re-installed instead an older version is installed instead (see post) but without removing the current version of libstdc++. The issue might be related to the way that pkg parses dependency information,

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1035451#1035451
End Update (27 Aug 19 - new version)


==================================


Update (27 Sep 19 - remastered version with Icecat browser)
If one is looking for a version with a browser pre-installed darry has created such a remaster:
darry19662018 wrote:
Made an iso that includes GNUIcecat and GNUIceweasel-uxp, Deadbeef 1.80, static mplayer, mtpaint, flcalc and xarchiver from tinycore, parchive, pupcontrolpanel, pfind, peasypdf, mupdf, epdfview (older version less deps), firewall.ng, ......

https://archive.org/download/tiny_puduanasciiprealpha11.5darry1966iceweasel/tiny_puduanasciiPreAlpha11.5%28darry1966%29%28iceweasel%29.iso

Did this to test remasterpup2 which worked.Smile

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif
End Update (27 Sep 19 - remastered version with Icecat browser)


==================================

About the puppy derivative

==================================

At this point this is a very experimental release. It is built using woof-next.

Package managers

There are two package managers:
1. Sc0ttman's - Pkg - CLI package manager
2. mistifires - Puppy Package Manager (modified) v3.0

both have issues that I need to work out (probably specific to my system) but "after connecting to the Internet you can install firefox-esr using sc0ttman's package manager as follows:
Code:

pkg --get libjsoncpp1
pkg --get firefox-esr


To see what pacakges are available you can use mistfire's package manager. Start with the command:
Code:

ppm

**or alternativly it can be started via the standard gui ways.

In the jwm bottom panel menu (also available via right clicking on the desktop) you will also see gui versions of sc0ttman's package manager. I haven't really tested these but the search function isn't properly filleting the package list. According to sc0ttman this should work on a standard puppy.

JRB's portable browser installer

If you want a newer browser than is available via the package manager then you can use JRB's portable browser installer (available in the menu). It asks you which partition you want to install it on but I modified it so that you can install anywhere (see rufwoof's security concerns).


tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.iso

Networking

Originally, I only had fresbee installed and I decided to also install network_wizard, which seems to also install simple networking wizard. Frisbee is sufficient and I recommend using it. The menu is a bit cluttered with some other networking options. These are here because I wanted to experiment with some CLI networking tools. Just hide the ones from the menu that you don't want to use.

A minimal Philosophy?

The reason that I wanted to experiment with some CLI networking tools is that I'm interested in minimal systems. The current iso isn't that minimal 213mb but I think it's probably about 100mb smaller then the typical puppy equivalents (ie.g. dpup stretch or puduan ascii. This is probably mostly due to not including a browser. There are lots of stuff that I could remove but I both wanted a system that works well, and didn't give me any error reports due to missing files.

Some of said errors (I would get if I stripped out some non-essential packages) would be due to puppy doing things at start-up that aren't strictly essential. Others might be due to unnecessary library dependencies that are compiled into the library. In the first case we can rectify the error by modifying the puppy startup script and in the latter case we need to use different binaries for some libs (e.g. recompile). In the latter case I might rectify these errors by re replacing a lib with the tinycore version.

Why the name tiny_devaun?

The name tiny_devaun is for two reasons. The first is that it is somewhat minimal and I eventually plan to make it more minimal by pushing more things to optional sfs files. The second is that both libc6 and busybox is from tinycore. I also included some other random tinycore stuff just to see what it is but anything that I thought would interfer with the system (statup stuff and user related stuff) is not included.

The tinycore components are from the tinycore9 iso which uses a newer version of libc6 that both devaun ascii and debian stretch. I will think about how I might implement more tinycore components

Download

You can download the iso at:

tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.iso

Expect frequent new releases until I'm more happy with it.

Previous posts

Previous posts can be found in the "alternative build systems thread".

Immediate tests

My first order of business is to make sure that pkg is doing what it's supposed to (i.e. not re-installing anything that is already installed). After that I'll see if I can get either the gui's working better for sc0ttman's pkg and also test to see if mistfire's ppm is working properly. In the long run I'll probly just have sc0ttman's pkg manager but we'll see. Smile

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Last edited by s243a on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 21:24; edited 23 times in total
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2019, 14:04    Post subject:  

Update (17 Aug 19)
-----
s243a wrote:
New release to fix issues noted in previous post:

tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.4.iso
Testing:
1. Install firefox (dependencies are being instlled but need to make sure that nothign is re-installed.
2. Checked /tmp/xerrs.log (no obvious errors)
3. Also installed other packages that I'll include in a remaster.

**Testing done with a save folder on a USB drive. No other pmedia modes were tested.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1034594#1034594
**Type "xwin" to start the desktop if it doesn't start.
-----
End Update

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Last edited by s243a on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 21:18; edited 1 time in total
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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2019, 14:04    Post subject:  

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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2019, 14:05    Post subject:  

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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2019, 14:05    Post subject:  

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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Jun 2019, 14:05    Post subject:  

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 00:17    Post subject:  

The package managers that I'm using:
1. sc0tmann's pkg
2. mistfires ppm3

seem to depend on the symlink:
/initrd/pup_ro1

and there seems to be a bug in my ISO where this isn't being created properly in the initrd0/init script. I don't know if it was an issue with the woof-CE snapshot that I pulled or something that I did. However, in the short term I'm going to patch with a fix like follows:

Code:

#!/bin/sh
. /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE
SAVE_REL="$(echo $PUPSAVE | cut -d',' -f3)"
SAVE_PATH="/initrd/mnt/dev_save$SAVE_REL"

if [ -d "$SAVE_PATH" ] ; then
  if [ -d /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
     cp -arfv --remove-destination "$SAVE_PATH"
     rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1
  elif [ -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
    rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1
  fi
  if [ ! -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
    ln -sv "$SAVE_PATH" /initrd/pup_ro1 #for after switch
  fi
fi

https://pastebin.com/0gLTFNdv

Maybe I"ll call this script when starting x. I'll test this sortly.

Eventually, of course a I'll both:
1. debug my /initrd/init script
2. remove the dependencies of said package managers on this symlink.

The reason for the later is that the symlink is for lagacy apps:

gyrog tells me that:
Quote:
That symlink is there for old utilites that have /initrd/pup_ro1 hardcoded, rather than being coded the better way.

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/issues/1469#issuecomment-504771021

More about this topic can be found in the thread:
Process Substitution & The pup initr0/init

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3542

PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 06:18    Post subject:  

Just to report - works for me.

Downloaded the iso. Created a hdd /tinypud folder where I have grub4dos already installed on that hdd. Used rox to click the iso and copied out the vmlinuz, initrd.gz and .sfs files (3 of them) over to that /tinypud folder

Updated the /menu.lst file on hdd to add a entry of ...
Code:
title tinypud
find --set-root /menu.lst
kernel /tinypud/vmlinuz pfix=nox pmedia=atahd psubdir=/tinypud video=640x400
initrd /tinypud/initrd.gz

and booted that. Changed the root password (ran 'passwd'). I then ran 'xwin' as I'd included the pfix=nox so it booted to command line, and X started up ok. Ran through the firstrun setup (country etc.) and then ran through the Connect setup and frisbee wireless connected to my ssid ok.

Once network connected I exited back to cli (exit X). Tried ssh myuserid@tty.sdf.org .... and no ssh installed. Tried telnet blackflag.acid.org (a BBS) and that connected ok (but the default terminal isn't a good one for showing ansi art, so looks odd). Used pkgdialog and installed ssh, and tmux and that all installed/works fine (can now ssh into hashbang.sh, sdf.org ...etc.).
For me, that opens up email, irc, lynx (curses browser), reddit ...etc. So already pretty functional. X, well pretty much I only need that in order to run a gui browser (that opens up the likes of using google docs for office type stuff).

For me, if first run setup and frisbee net connect were cli/ncurses, then X and the rest could all be 'additionals'. But then that deviates quite a bit away from woof - so just saying.

Nice that mc is already included by default (ncurses file manager and text editor). I do have some template C code somewhere that creates a mc style cua (interface), drop down menus/windows etc. that I'll have to dig out and have a play with. What with the pkgdialog, tui based versions of first run setup and frisbee could enable X to be grouped with gui browser/others ... as a separate optional sfs - which would make tinypuduan even smaller Smile

Thank s243a (and others). Great work.

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rufwoof


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 07:23    Post subject:  

Is a devX available?

Posting from TinyPuduan, but with no browser installed yet
(using lynx via ssh)

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 07:38    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
Is a devX available?

Posting from TinyPuduan, but with no browser installed yet
(using lynx via ssh)


I haven't tried it yet but I suspect the one that Sailor Enceladus built should work:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109842

but I'll put building a devX on my todo list.

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 08:10    Post subject:  

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

Under Fatdog I knocked out a very quick-n-dirty ncurses as per the attached image.

Thought in mind was to structure it somewhat like a Puppy desktop tray, but where instead of displaying the time/date for instance usually in a bottom panel far right, the 'panel' is at the top of screen and the far right choice fires up calcurse (or whatever) - that displays the date/time and caters for diary/appointments/todo. Ditto for others (sound, system activity ...etc.)

For the MENU first entry, I just casually bashed in some command/action choices, not the sort of order/choice you'd have, more just a case of it being a demo only.

The image is a full screen capture - so shows my fatdog tray as well. Primarily however its just the nurses window/program that would be viewed from cli/tui.

Aligning to be similar to mc (file manager and text editor) would keep things consistent.

As-is that 'demoapp' compiled to a 140K executable filesize.
s.png
 Description   
 Filesize   40.85 KB
 Viewed   564 Time(s)

s.png


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rufwoof


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 08:43    Post subject:  

s243a wrote:
I haven't tried it yet but I suspect the one that Sailor Enceladus built should work:

Tried rox right click Install for that devx sfs, wouldn't load (pup_ro3 or something like that error). Installed squashfs-tools via pkgdialog and unsquashfs -f -d / ... the devx sfs i.e. extracted it to root and then grabbed a copy of syncterm source from github and tried making that ... worked to a degree, but then locked up. Looks like a libc issue (i.e. yours is a later version ???). So in short .. no luck.

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s243a

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 09:00    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
s243a wrote:
I haven't tried it yet but I suspect the one that Sailor Enceladus built should work:

Tried rox right click Install for that devx sfs, wouldn't load (pup_ro3 or something like that error). Installed squashfs-tools via pkgdialog and unsquashfs -f -d / ... the devx sfs i.e. extracted it to root and then grabbed a copy of syncterm source from github and tried making that ... worked to a degree, but then locked up. Looks like a libc issue (i.e. yours is a later version ???). So in short .. no luck.


That's correct. The libc version is newer than the standard devaun asci. Maybe we need differn't c header files. Sounds like I'll need to build a devx.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:25    Post subject:  

hi s243a

just noticed your new thread
didnt see it at first up in cutting edge

just downloaded your new iso 11
now on wired internet
installed palemoon
posting from it now

looks and works great

great job

will follow along
thanks for all your work

wanderer
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rufwoof


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 20:31    Post subject:  

Spent a evening coding up that ncurses (in Fatdog) to look/feel like mc and it works quite nicely. Wrapped a shell script around it and I'm also using tilda terminal (for its drop down/hide F1 Quake like functionality). Clicking on menu choices adds a new tilda tab to the set with that program/action running in that tab.


(clickable thumbnail)
Tilda tabs are the topmost in that image, the ncurses choices/menu is the next down from that.

I reboot with a clean (but configured) system each time I reboot (don't save, keep all data separate). Which means a clean browser also. One of those tabs is my urls, a simple text file - but where under tilda it auto highlights all urls so you can just mouse over and click a url in order to open it up in the defaultbrowser.

Why bother with just gui or just tui, when you can have both Smile And with a simple F1 keypress the tui is hidden, to reveal just the gui desktop


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