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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Bionic32-light
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3279
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 18:28    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hi, mikeslr.

Also, a concern is WHERE will the installer be installing this big beast? You
don't want to clog the user's pupsave.

I may be wrong, but I think fredx181's installer installs the files into whichever folder the script is run from. So, could be from /mnt/home/somewhere.

A pre-chewed installer... wow.
Must the younger generations of Puppyists be fed baby food?

BFN.


Yes. Newbies are probably immigrants from Windows; less likely Ubuntu; least likely, some other major distro. They are used to Mommy doing everything. Web-browsers are essential. Time enough for them to 'cut their teeth' on some toy they feel they need enough to do a little work to get.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14283
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 18:42    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
musher0 wrote:
Hi, mikeslr.

Also, a concern is WHERE will the installer be installing this big beast? You
don't want to clog the user's pupsave.

I may be wrong, but I think fredx181's installer installs the files into whichever folder the script is run from. So, could be from /mnt/home/somewhere.

A pre-chewed installer... wow.
Must the younger generations of Puppyists be fed baby food?

BFN.


Yes. Newbies are probably immigrants from Windows; less likely Ubuntu; least likely, some other major distro. They are used to Mommy doing everything. Web-browsers are essential. Time enough for them to 'cut their teeth' on some toy they feel they need enough to do a little work to get.

Tsk, tsk. What is the world coming up to... Laughing

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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5480
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 02:11    Post subject:  

Guess I'll wait for the next full .iso release; manipulating deltas is far too complex with CD-RWs for my usage. Why are folks so keen to install or save anything associated with a light distro? Doesn't seem to make much sense. Logical progress would seem to be stripping out even more stuff to make it even lighter/faster. Concentrate on security so it can be booted anywhere anytime any machine for rapid access to essential info and (maybe) financial dealings. In the alternative you'll be pestered to add the proverbial kitchen sink and end up with a hobbled inadequate monstrosity like so many that have gone before.
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1295
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 07:49    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Guess I'll wait for the next full .iso release; manipulating deltas is far too complex with CD-RWs for my usage. Why are folks so keen to install or save anything associated with a light distro? Doesn't seem to make much sense. Logical progress would seem to be stripping out even more stuff to make it even lighter/faster. Concentrate on security so it can be booted anywhere anytime any machine for rapid access to essential info and (maybe) financial dealings. In the alternative you'll be pestered to add the proverbial kitchen sink and end up with a hobbled inadequate monstrosity like so many that have gone before.

Sorry for the inconvenience Sage. I hadn't considered that some people are only using CD-RWs.

Since you ask, I use the .delta system because I live in a remote rural area with only satellite access to the internet and a monthly internet limit of 40Gb both upload and download which is split between four adults and two children.

May I suggest that you invest in a cheap usb flashdrive as a work area. Place upupbb32-light-19.03-uefi+0.iso and upupbb32-light-19.03-uefi+0.iso___upupbb32-light-19.03-uefi+2.iso.delta on the flashdrive and click on the .delta file. Choose "Generate" and you will have upupbb32-light-19.03-uefi+2.iso. If you intend to do anything involving symlinks on this drive then format it to ext3 with Gparted on the System menu but this is not needed for most operations.

I hope that will be of some assistance.

Good Luck, J
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Volhout

Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 08:33    Post subject: Imigrants from windows?  

Quote:

Yes. Newbies are probably immigrants from Windows; less likely Ubuntu; least likely, some other major distro. They are used to Mommy doing everything. Web-browsers are essential. Time enough for them to 'cut their teeth' on some toy they feel they need enough to do a little work to get.


I doubt that.
Since MS does not charge for W10, the young generation is not interested in alternatives. They change phone every 2 years, and you will hardly find anyone with a 5 year old laptop.
We could do a poll, but I expect puppy forum visitors to be 45 in age average, if not higher.

Another reason why I dont expect puppy, and linux in general, to attract young folk is the speed in which it can adopt new technology. I.e. No phone maker has earphone connection anymore. In 1 year time all young ones will need Bluetooth for sound. I have not seen a good seemless bluetooth implementation in linux yet.

Puppy is a nice playground for us, we are all enjoying it, but I do not expect a spin off in the real world....
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 845
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 09:14    Post subject: Re: Imigrants from windows?  

Volhout (in part( wrote:
.. change phone every 2 years, and you will hardly find anyone with a 5 year old laptop.
We could do a poll, but I expect puppy forum visitors to be 45 in age average, if not higher.
I admit that I got a phone less than 2 years ago; TracFone offered a used one for $10, and it does have a 3.5mm jack. This laptop is from 2011. I am 84. I immigrated from Windows perhaps 5 to 10 years ago.
(Occasionally use WordPad, and 2 softwares for eBooks from the library.)

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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1295
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 09:39    Post subject: Re: Imigrants from windows?  

Volhout wrote:
Quote:

Yes. Newbies are probably immigrants from Windows; less likely Ubuntu; least likely, some other major distro. They are used to Mommy doing everything. Web-browsers are essential. Time enough for them to 'cut their teeth' on some toy they feel they need enough to do a little work to get.


I doubt that.
Since MS does not charge for W10, the young generation is not interested in alternatives. They change phone every 2 years, and you will hardly find anyone with a 5 year old laptop.
We could do a poll, but I expect puppy forum visitors to be 45 in age average, if not higher.

Another reason why I dont expect puppy, and linux in general, to attract young folk is the speed in which it can adopt new technology. I.e. No phone maker has earphone connection anymore. In 1 year time all young ones will need Bluetooth for sound. I have not seen a good seemless bluetooth implementation in linux yet.

Puppy is a nice playground for us, we are all enjoying it, but I do not expect a spin off in the real world....

I picked up a 10 year old Gateway ZA8 laptop yesterday with case and two good batteries (large and small), looks like new. I paid the full asking price, $2 Canadian. Wouldn't boot to Windows Vista, no surprise there, but booted immediately to Puppy on a flashdrive. My 5 year old granddaughter has a birthday coming up. She already knows how to use Puppy to access paint programs and games. My birthday shopping is done. Very Happy

I confess that I am 70 years old, and I still don't have a cellphone. What would I say anyway?

Cheers, J
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Volhout

Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 12:36    Post subject: Congratulations  

Congratulations to the girl. I am sure she will have lots of fun, and she has a warm and loving grandfather, who will guide her on the way through puppy land. You are soo lucky man.

Volhout.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5480
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 13:51    Post subject:  

Thanks for those comments, jrb.
Lucky you living in BC! Did the Island, Howe Sound, Banff Springs, Lake L. and the Stampede next door, including the overnight train through the Rockies. One of the best experiences for me.
As for USB sticks, ankle deep in the beasts! The answer for you also would appear to be less-means-more. I don't have the time nor skills to mess with those deltas; since retiring ~20yrs ago the project list has grown out of proportion - maybe also beyond time available!
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14283
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 05 May 2019, 17:12    Post subject:  

Hello all.

FYI --
The icecat browser still exists, if someone wishes to use an entirely non-proprietary
browser. The most recent version of icecat is version 60.3. The entire listing of
icecats is here. If anyone needs a language pack, they are located in this section.

IHTH.

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musher0
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Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Mon 06 May 2019, 03:05    Post subject:  

So we end up with a pile of+1, +2, +3 ISOs, taking up gigs of data and just languishing there.
May I respectfully suggest that developers/ builders offer a PET in addition to a DELTA update of OS.
OR make a DELTA that will update the Puppy SFS.

DELTA was sort of OK in the Micko days of experimentation with thin Slacko, but soon becomes tiresome in the catchup game.
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3961
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Mon 06 May 2019, 04:54    Post subject:  

Smithy wrote:
So we end up with a pile of+1, +2, +3 ISOs, taking up gigs of data and just languishing there.
May I respectfully suggest that developers/ builders offer a PET in addition to a DELTA update of OS.
OR make a DELTA that will update the Puppy SFS.

DELTA was sort of OK in the Micko days of experimentation with thin Slacko, but soon becomes tiresome in the catchup game.

Unless you're an avid collector of redundant isos - just delete any intermediate isos - keep just the base and the most recent - simples!

There is a utility to make a pet (mainly intended for full installs)...........
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115088

A Puppy SFS only delta would be about the same size.......but would cause more problems for the "full install brigade"............

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2992
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 06 May 2019, 06:48    Post subject:  

If the iso is uploaded to archive.org (ally generally does this as alternative download location), one can access and download individual files (only those that you need) from that iso. A very handy feature.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2992
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 06 May 2019, 06:56    Post subject:  

Double post
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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Mon 06 May 2019, 07:49    Post subject:  

OK, I have done the developers job for them just once.
A convoluted affair, that seemed to get there eventually..
Precise Light Update PET: 121k as opposed to 8mb (don't know why,xz maybe)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aixnaymvlpa2d8y/updates_4_precise-light-5.7.1%2B1.iso.pet?dl=1
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