Dpup Stretch 7.5 CE (RC-5)

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Mike Walsh · #541 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Thu 11 Apr 2019, 17:37

@ tallboy:-

As for me, Olaf, I assemble everything for an SFS in a dedicated directory (in a 'work' area) with all the appropriate directories/files, etc., in the correct locations. Then I use the 'mksquashfs' command upnorth mentioned. I usually tell it to create the SFS alongside the source directory, in the 'work' area.....

In the Puppies, I usually have a pair of 'work' directories within /root. (These 'work' directories are sym-linked to the real 'work' directories on an external USB hard drive). 'make-pet' (which works with Trio's 'PetMaker'), and 'MAKE-SFS', where I assemble and build SFS packages.

For example, where the source directory might be 'Palemoon-28.4.1', the command would go as follows:-

Code: Select all

mksquashfs(space)/root/MAKE-SFS/Palemoon-28.4.1(space)/root/MAKE-SFS/Palemoon-28.4.1.sfs

Basically:-

mksquashfsspacesource_directoryspacedestination_package.sfs

Hope that helps!

Mike.

s243a · #542 Post by **s243a** » Thu 11 Apr 2019, 17:56

Mike Walsh wrote:Evening, radky/everybody.

Now, then. I'm a-thinking about giving this a look-see. Coupla questions.....

Are the DPups stuck with using .deb packages only, or can they also use .pets/SFSs/run 'portables', etc?

Following a response from Foxpup, do they make use of the Debian repos.....even though, apparently, 'sudo apt-get install' isn't needed? Do they use something similar to the PPM?

dpup uses the same package manager as any other version of puppy (i.e. petget). You can install .pet or .deb files. If you want to install apt it is theoretically possible and I have partial instructions at:
How to use "apt" on PuppyLinux

You might want to do this if you want to use apt to check the signature of downloaded packages based on debians web of trust. Also some repo's aren't compatable with puppy's package manager (e.g. either the tor or i2p repo), in which case you could download the package with apt and install it with petget.

Would my 'portable'-Mozilla browsers (based on Fred's Quantum-portable) run in this? (Can't think of any reason why they shouldn't, but it'd be nice to have confirmation, like..!)

And, most important of all.....does it run as root, or as a 'user' only?

Mike.

It runs as root by default like any other rpuppy. Regarding portable apps, I see know reason they they shouldn't work but it all depends on the dependencies so please try it and let us know.

Mike Walsh · #543 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Thu 11 Apr 2019, 20:08

@ s243a:-

Cheers, mate. Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I may just be adding another one to the 'kennels'...!

I'll have a closer look as soon as I get a bit more free time.

Mike.

tallboy · #544 Post by **tallboy** » Fri 12 Apr 2019, 19:24

Thank you for the explanation, Mike. I have not been able to compile any sources before on my home computers, simply because they have been short of RAM, and space.

You can usually install both a Debian-based .pet and a .deb packet in Ubuntu-based Puppys.

Debian-based Dpups usually don't accept Ubuntu-based .debs, and usually don't like .pets made for a Ubuntu-based Puppy either.

But most Ubuntu packages have their origin in Debian, so the amount of packages in the Dpup PPM, is fairly good! If you want to se what packages are available in a debian-stretch-main repo for for example Filesystem, a little dialog window pops up:

Please wait, processing all entries may take awhile...

(I may risk being banned for a few months for saying this, but the default Dpup Stretch-7.5 icon theme is one of the fugliest I have seen...)

rufwoof · #545 Post by **rufwoof** » Fri 12 Apr 2019, 22:01

s243a wrote:
Would my 'portable'-Mozilla browsers (based on Fred's Quantum-portable) run in this? (Can't think of any reason why they shouldn't, but it'd be nice to have confirmation, like..!)

And, most important of all.....does it run as root, or as a 'user' only?

Mike.
It runs as root by default like any other rpuppy. Regarding portable apps, I see know reason they they shouldn't work but it all depends on the dependencies so please try it and let us know.

Barry's containers concept is neat. You still run as root, but with capabilities dropped.

You need to ppm install something like libcap2-bin-utils ... or something like that for capabilities setting and then run something like

capsh --drop=cap_sys_chroot -- /bin/sh

If you run capsh --print before and after doing that, then you'll see that it can't run chroot commands. Stopped at the kernel level.

Set up a aufs (or in dpup's case I believe unionfs) of the main sfs and you can create a 'top' layer with its own separate changes folder for next to no overhead, and then have capsh chroot into that using something like

capsh --drop=cap_sys_chroot --chroot=/root/top -- /bin/sh

Within that, even though its root, it can't chroot out of that. In effect a limited root. You could use that to run firefox or whatever within that chroot and just dispose of it once done.

The other main weakness is X. If however you ppm xserver-xephyr (or something like that, I'm typing all of this from memory/off-top-of-head), then you can run something like Xephyr :1 & .. and a new X session is created, that's separate from your main X (DISPLAY :0)

If then you prefix the earlier capsh .... command with DISPLAY=:1 capsh .... then that's as good as contained/jailed. But again - is still running as root.

If you install firefox portable into that chroot ... then it should still run as normal. But if you're using Xephyr you wont be able to cut/paste directly between that firefox window and your normal desktop .. as the security measure block that, as they block crackers from doing similar.

s243a · #546 Post by **s243a** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 00:33

Has bootloader code been eliminated from WoofCE in the universal installer? I recall that in older versions of the universal installer there was an option where one could select various bootloader options (e.g. extlinux). I tried running the universal installer but it asked, do you want to run grub4dos rather than "do you want to install a bootloader?" I don't think that grub4dos is so great if the the boot loader is installed on a linux partition.

Also, there should be a way to run the universal installer and only install the boot loader. I can manually copy the puppy files from the ISO. I don't need the universal installer to do this for me.

Note that that I attempted to use the "Universal Installer" on the partition that I was running puppy from, so this could have been the issue. I actually booted from a different hard drive but the save folder was on the hard drive that I wanted to install a different bootloader.

radky · #547 Post by **radky** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 01:42

@s243a,

If I understand correctly, woof-ce devs added the grub4dos function (line 454) to puppyinstaller as follows:

Jul 14, 2014: puppyinstaller (aka PUI): improved interface, bug fixes and enhancements
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... e1cf123455

For your review, the following link shows all woof-ce commits pertaining to puppyinstaller:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... pe=Commits

s243a · #548 Post by **s243a** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 02:38

radky wrote:@s243a,

If I understand correctly, woof-ce devs added the grub4dos function (line 454) to puppyinstaller as follows:

Jul 14, 2014: puppyinstaller (aka PUI): improved interface, bug fixes and enhancements
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... e1cf123455

For your review, the following link shows all woof-ce commits pertaining to puppyinstaller:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... pe=Commits

thanks for the info

I took a look in github. The message I was refering to comes from:

Code: Select all

 mbr.bin "$(gettext 'From the Syslinux package')" `"

line# 1110 of /usr/sbin/puppyinstaller

This text is part of the variable "MBRCHOICE". Some further digging shows that this code is only executed if PMEDIA is in usbflash|usbhd|ataflash (see line# 1089 of puppylinstaller.

I suppose I can try grub4dos and see what happens but it has been my experience with USB drives that syslinux does a better job of booting linux partiations (i.e. ext2/3/4) than grub4dos. Maybe this isn't the case though for PMEDIA in atahd|satahd (line# 1412 of puppyinstaller). I suppose I'll try it and see what happens.

Edit: I gave it a try and grub4dos seemed to work on an ext4 partition...or at least it did on this particular machine on an internal drive.

rufwoof · #549 Post by **rufwoof** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 07:50

First page, kernel sources for 4.9.149 is a dead link

Tried dpup (4.9.149 kernel version) for the first time. Works very well, especially if you also install Fred's portable firefox and use that for the browser.

For frugal HDD install I re-squashed the sfs' using lzo level 1 compression instead of sticking with the high compressed default versions - yes that does mean much larger filesizes, but operationally for me that felt much snappier.

I must have accidentally triggered the full screen key for geany as that was showing without a title bar, which caught me out - thinking it had been set to have no title in the jwm config files, wasn't until after I'd inspected those and saw no such group entry that I realised my error (toggled full screen off) ... doh!

Have it installed on a Acer ES 15 laptop, 4GB dual AMD/Radeon with 1TB HDD space. That has a DVD. Was way too sluggish when using Windows for the owner who has bought a Mac as a replacement. I may get to keep that as even after seeing Dpup's operational speed they're still pretty intent on just 'bin it'.

Did try mounting my Android and that all worked fine.

s243a · #550 Post by **s243a** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 08:26

delete

Mike Walsh · #551 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 10:38

Well, I have to say.....this is NOT 'alf bad!

Fast; stable; and (with a couple of exceptions that were my own 'dozy' fault) pretty much the most straight-forward install I've performed for a long time.

Yes; I like it.....

What'cha think of my 'Robo-puppies'?

Mike.

rufwoof · #552 Post by **rufwoof** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 16:22

Nice Mike. The dogs need a stretch

=======================

This is a dump of my rough test code for a container under dpup

Hard coded values (I just wanted to see if it basically worked)

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh

# requires (from ppm) ...
# unionfs_fuse
# libcap2-bin_2.25-1
# xserver-xephyr

# You may have to adjust the sound card inside the container
# (Menu, Setup, Alsa Wizard)

# Mount the main sfs (currently hard coded)
# Think this is relatively generic
mkdir -p /root/union
mkdir -p /root/sfs
mkdir -p /root/changes

mount -o loop /initrd/mnt/dev_save/dpup/puppy_stretch_7.5.sfs /root/sfs
unionfs-fuse -o nonempty -o allow_root -o cow /root/changes=RW:/root/sfs=RO /root/union

# Create another separate X server
Xephyr :1 &
sleep 3 # time to settle

# For network
cp -f /etc/resolv.conf /root/union/etc/resolv.conf
cd /root/union
mount -t proc proc proc/
mount --rbind /sys sys/
mount --rbind /dev dev/
mount --rbind /dev/mixer dev/mixer/  # for sound
mount --rbind /dev/snd dev/snd/
mount --rbind /etc/machine-id etc/machine-id  # firefox needs this

cd /root
cat <<'EOF' >/root/union/action_to_run
#!/bin/sh
DISPLAY=:1 export DISPLAY
/usr/local/bin/defaultbrowser &
/usr/bin/jwm
EOF
chmod +x /root/union/action_to_run

DISPLAY=:1 unshare -m capsh --drop=cap_sys_admin,cap_sys_chroot --chroot=/root/union -- /action_to_run

sleep 4 # time to settle
umount /root/union
umount /root/sfs

Clickable thumbnail

Runs as root - within a chroot, with cap_sys_admin and cap_sys_chroot capabilities dropped (so a cracker can't chroot out of the chroot or do other admin'y type functions) and uses Xephyr (so no stuffing of commands into - or watching other main system Windows)

Low overhead as it uses mounts the main sfs as the chroot mount point. Changes are stored in /root/changes, but I guess more usually you'd just delete that folder after the container was finished with.

radky · #553 Post by **radky** » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 22:01

s243a wrote:

I gave it a try and grub4dos seemed to work on an ext4 partition...

Thanks for the confirmation, and helpful input !

---

Mike Walsh wrote:

What'cha think of my 'Robo-puppies'?

Almost bionic !

---

rufwoof wrote:

First page, kernel sources for 4.9.149 is a dead link...

Now fixed, thanks for testing and for your experience with containers under dpup !

Mike Walsh · #554 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 00:54

@ radky:-

radky wrote:Mike Walsh wrote:-
What'cha think of my 'Robo-puppies'?
Almost bionic!

Yeah, they're quite neat, aren't they? I did a search on DuckDuckGo (haven't bothered with Google for an age!) for 'Images of robotic & cybernetic dogs'.....and amongst the usual dross was this gem. I came across the original of Phil's Bionicpup64 default wallpaper, but I liked this one better..!

----------------

Now, then; clue me in, would you? I see you've got things set up so that you have to use the pager to switch desktops. I know MochiMoppel published the 'workaround' for Pup's default scrollable behaviour to make it act like this some time ago.....but I can't for the life of me find it now.

Personally, I prefer the 'default' Puppy behaviour, where scrolling with your cursor on the desktop runs through them, one after another. Where do I need to make the edit to reverse this back to 'normal'? I know some folks detest Pup's usual behaviour, but me, well.....I've got so used to it by now, I get kinda lost when it doesn't work!

Mike.

MochiMoppel · #555 Post by **MochiMoppel** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 01:53

Mike Walsh wrote:I know MochiMoppel published the 'workaround' for Pup's default scrollable behaviour to make it act like this some time ago.....but I can't for the life of me find it now.

You mean this ? Doesn't work anymore in JWM 2.3. - Joe "fixed" it

.
Scrolling should still work when mouse is placed over the tray.

radky · #556 Post by **radky** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 02:38

Hi Mike and MochiMoppel,

For those who wish to disable scrollable desktop switching, JWM >= 2.3.7 supports the use of an empty root menu (<RootMenu onroot="45"/>), and this technique is used in the current release of Dpup Stretch. In this scenario, the tray pager is still available to change virtual desktops.

However, if you want to re-enable scrollable desktop switching, do the following:

1 - Go to /etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc and delete line 78 (i.e., remove <RootMenu onroot="45"/>)
2 - fixmenus
3 - jwm -restart

---

For more information, see below:

https://github.com/joewing/jwm/issues/366

MochiMoppel · #557 Post by **MochiMoppel** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 03:14

Thanks radky. Good to see that Joe unfixed his fix. As you may know I stay away from 2.3. and hope for a better 2.4.

Mike Walsh · #558 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 10:35

@ Mochi/radky:-

Thanks, guys. I knew it was a fairly simple solution, but couldn't locate it yesterday. As usual in Linux, there's multiple approaches (& solutions) to the same thing.

(That's something new I've learnt. Using '#' to comment-out doesn't work in /etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc..! You have to use " instead. Is that peculiar to XML code?

I didn't want to delete line 78 completely, just comment it out.....but learnt summat new in the process.)

I may have to try Mochi's approach - or a variation thereof - in Lucid, 'cos Richard's done the same thing there. But then that's using fbPanel instead, so of course, it's probably completely different...

Cheers, anyway.

Mike.

MochiMoppel · #559 Post by **MochiMoppel** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 11:02

Mike Walsh wrote:You have to use " instead. Is that peculiar to XML code?

Yes. If you use Geany you don't have to worry about the syntax: Place the text cursor into the line you want to comment or select a range of lines you want to comment out, then press Ctrl+E. Geany will uses #~ or <!-- , depending on script language. Use Ctr.+E again to uncomment. One of the best features of Geany.

Mike Walsh · #560 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 14:58

MochiMoppel wrote:
Mike Walsh wrote:You have to use " instead. Is that peculiar to XML code?
Yes. If you use Geany you don't have to worry about the syntax: Place the text cursor into the line you want to comment or select a range of lines you want to comment out, then press Ctrl+E. Geany will uses #~ or <!-- , depending on script language. Use Ctr.+E again to uncomment. One of the best features of Geany.

Neat tip, Mochi; wasn't aware of that one. I shall have to remember it.

Cheers.

Mike.

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Dpup Stretch 7.5 CE (RC-5)